Why Cant I Lower My PH?

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Offline suep

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Why cant I lower my PH?
« on: August 25, 2013, 05:46:46 PM »
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Here's the thing. I have been trying to lower my PH as the water around here is 8.0. The GH was 18 but I have lowered to 13ppm. I have been doing 30% water changes every week - 20% with peat infused water (which was about 7.4 when added) and 10% RO water which of course in neutral. I have been doing this since the beginning of June. So why has my PH not lowered at all? Like I say the GH and KH have come down a bit but I would have thought by now the PH would also have started to come down.

I keep:zebra danios, pearl danios, glowlight danios, gold ring danios, neon tetras and 2 dwarf guaramis. I have a piece of bog wood and a barrel ornament and gravel with a number of plants. Any advice would be great thanks  ???

Offline Sue

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Re: Why cant I lower my PH?
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2013, 07:35:10 PM »
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You don't say how low your KH is now (just your GH) but the problem is likely to be that it is still too high. I don't know off the top of my head how low it needs to be before there isn't enough to buffer the water but to give you an idea, my KH is 3 and I only had pH problems during a fishless cycle and several years ago when I got a bit lazy about doing water changes.


Actually, pH is less important to fish than hardness (GH). They can cope with the 'wrong' pH much better than they can cope with the 'wrong' hardness. You couod try increasing the amount of RO that you use, that would drop the GH a bit more, so even if the pH remained high the fish would be happier with slightly less hard water.

Offline SteveS

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Re: Why cant I lower my PH?
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2013, 09:14:54 PM »
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The problem is that your water is so hard, it contains so much buffering, that the peat infused water may have a pH of 7.4 when you add it, it won't be 7.4 for very long. Altering the pH of water is notoriously tricky, the harder the water, the trickier it gets. At your level, very very hard, it's a cross between witchcraft and knitting sand  :) As Sue says, it's best just to concentrate on the hardness and let the pH find it's own level.

To reduce hardness, you have to use R/O water as you are doing. With the regime you are following, the hardness will settle out at about 12. You will have gone from the top end of very hard to the bottom end of very hard. To go further, you will need to use a larger proportion of R/O water.  I wouldn't get too carried away if I were you, the fish you have aren't ones that demand soft water. You could increase the amount of of R/O water to 15%, ie half of the replacement water. This would, eventually, reduce the hardness in your tank by 50%.

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Offline suep

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Re: Why cant I lower my PH?
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2013, 10:25:13 PM »
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Thanks for your replies. my KH has just lowered to 5 from 6 with my last water change and GH is just hovering between 12 & 13. I have heard that gravel can cause a buffer problem and high PH. Is this true? I have quite a thick gravel substrate (2-3"). I have stuck a peat ball in the actual tank to see if that makes any difference. I bought some seachem acid buffer and put a bit in yesterday, but I have read that messing about too much with PH especially chemically can be dangerous! I have just added to corydoras panctatus and I'm hoping they will be okay

Offline Sue

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Re: Why cant I lower my PH?
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2013, 08:22:49 AM »
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Your KH is not that high - it needs to be the same as your GH to cause real problems with lowering the pH.
As for substrate, what causes the problem is when the substrate is made from calcium carbonate. That could be crushed limestone or crushed coral. Some types of sand are limestone/coral as well. Those dissolve, increasing GH, KH and pH.
If you can fit the peat ball in the filter,that would be more effective. Or even use a small filter just for the peat.

Chemicals are indeed not the best way to alter pH. Most just lower it temporarily, then it bounces back which is not good for fish. Some of them contain phosphate which encourages algae. And adding chemicals adds minerals to the water, the opposite of what soft water fish need.

Offline suep

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Re: Why cant I lower my PH?
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2013, 10:37:05 PM »
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Thanks Sue, I have an external filter so I can put the peat ball in there, but wanted to leave it a couple of days to check nothing disasterous happened! The PH overnight has dropped to about 7.4-7.6. Is that enough or should I put another peat ball in the filter while I have it open? What do you think?  ???

Offline Sue

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Re: Why cant I lower my PH?
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2013, 12:37:56 PM »
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I would stay with the one peat ball for a while and see what happens over a few weeks. Once you know that, you'll be in a better postition to make a decision about a second one.

Offline suep

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Re: Why cant I lower my PH?
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2013, 05:30:26 PM »
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 sounds like a plan ;)

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