FAO Sue - Quick Cycling Q

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Offline Kirstos

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FAO Sue - Quick Cycling Q
« on: January 25, 2014, 06:06:30 PM »
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Hi Sue

I have used the new method for fishless cycling on my 38 litre tank (now used as a quarantine) tank and am using it again on my new 68 litre. I set it up and added my 3ppm ammonia last Sunday. On Wednesday I noticed the tank looked very 'smoky' which I took to be a bit of a bacteria bloom. The ammonia was 3ppm, 0 Nitrites and 0 Nitrates. On Thursday I added some gravel from my established 240 litre tank. Todays water test showed 1ppm Ammonia, 0 Nitrites and 0 Nitrates. I am monitoring my PH carefully as my water is ultra soft.

I am wondering as the ammonia level has dropped so quickly whether I will get to the point where the ammonia reading is less than 0.75 ppm and the nitrite reading is over 2.0ppm. If not, should I add the full dose again anyway?
Thanks

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Bala / Silver Shark (5) - Congo Tetra (23) - Rosy Barb (17) - Golden Nugget Plec (2) - Red Tail Black Shark (1) - Siamese Flying Fox (1) - Yoyo Loach (7) - Tiger Barb (23) - Clown Loach (5) - Denison's Barb (7) - Black Neon Tetra (21) - Rummy Nose Tetra (15) - Panda Cory (4) - Fiveband Barb (10) - Bulldog Catfish (1) - Honey Gourami (1) - Bristlenose Plec (2) - Yoyo Loach (3) - Denison's Barb (5) - Checkered Barb (7) - Cherry Barb (5) - Congo Tetra (5) - Black Neon Tetra (13) - Zebra Danio (5) - Honey Gourami (1) - Ember Tetra (10) - Bala / Silver Shark (7) - Tinfoil Barb (5) - Rosy Barb (13) - Yoyo Loach (7) - Red Tail Black Shark (1) - Siamese Flying Fox (3) - Congo Tetra (13) - Golden Nugget Plec (4) - Tiger Barb (17) - Ticto Barb (13) - Silver Dollar (1) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: FAO Sue - Quick Cycling Q
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2014, 09:27:52 PM »
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Your results today are a bit odd. If the ammonia has dropped, it should have gone somewhere. Your results show 2ppm less than you started with, and that 2ppm should have been converted to around 5ppm nitrite or if the gravel you added also contained a lot of nitrite eaters, you should have around 7ppm nitrate. But your results are zero for both nitrite and nitrate. I know that the nitrate test is only ball park, but if those 2ppm ammonia had been converted to nitrate, you should have a reading somewhere above zero.

The gravel would have some bacteria on it, enough to seed the cycle especially if you put it into the filter. Would it be possible to steal some filter media from the 240l? That would be much better than gravel - and you asked about that a couple of days ago  :D

But for now, since the ammonia seems to have vanished into thin air (water?), I would add another 2ppm ammonia to get back up to 3ppm (and check 30 mins later) and see what happens after another 3 day gap. That would make 5ppm ammonia added so potentially that would turn into 12.5ppm nitrite which is below the ~15ppm where it stalls the cycle. 12.5ppm is off the top of the scale of all the testers I've heard of. If yours really is that high, you might get an odd colour reaction. The way to check if it is off the top of the scale is to dilute a sample, 1 part tank water to 2 or 3 parts tap. This won't give you a terribly accurate result (you need distilled water to dilute it and very accurate measuring equipment) but it would tell you if the reading really is off the top of the scale with pure tank water.

Offline Kirstos

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Re: FAO Sue - Quick Cycling Q
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2014, 12:49:51 PM »
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Hi Sue

Thanks for the reply. I thought it was a bit odd! I had assumed the gravel would have had some lovely bacteria on which would simply speed the process, not eat the ammonia and not appear to do anything with it!
 :-\

I will try to get some media from the 240 litre as well as the gravel (the gravel I used was the same as what is in my small tank, and is different to the gravel in the 240 litre one which is why I took it from there instead rather than the filter media I originally asked about). I have added another 3ppm of ammonia last night so will test it on Wednesday. Will let you know what happens!

Thanks

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Bala / Silver Shark (5) - Congo Tetra (23) - Rosy Barb (17) - Golden Nugget Plec (2) - Red Tail Black Shark (1) - Siamese Flying Fox (1) - Yoyo Loach (7) - Tiger Barb (23) - Clown Loach (5) - Denison's Barb (7) - Black Neon Tetra (21) - Rummy Nose Tetra (15) - Panda Cory (4) - Fiveband Barb (10) - Bulldog Catfish (1) - Honey Gourami (1) - Bristlenose Plec (2) - Yoyo Loach (3) - Denison's Barb (5) - Checkered Barb (7) - Cherry Barb (5) - Congo Tetra (5) - Black Neon Tetra (13) - Zebra Danio (5) - Honey Gourami (1) - Ember Tetra (10) - Bala / Silver Shark (7) - Tinfoil Barb (5) - Rosy Barb (13) - Yoyo Loach (7) - Red Tail Black Shark (1) - Siamese Flying Fox (3) - Congo Tetra (13) - Golden Nugget Plec (4) - Tiger Barb (17) - Ticto Barb (13) - Silver Dollar (1) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: FAO Sue - Quick Cycling Q
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2014, 03:17:41 PM »
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Did you check the ammonia reading half an hour after you added it to see exactly what it showed?

Gravel does have some bacteria on it, but not nearly as much as filter media (unless you have an undergravel filter, but those are not common nowadays). But unless the gravel, or anything else transfered from a mature tank, is in the filter it doesn't help much with the seeding process. The old media/gravel/whatever needs to be in direct physical contact with the new media for the bacteria to transfer because the bacteria grow embedded in biofilm and can sort of spread into the new media. The bacteria also grow better in filter media as those are specifically designed to make a good home for the bacteria and they are in the place bacteria prefer to grow (good water flow bringing food and oxygen, and in the dark). Old media should be placed in the filter first in the water flow so that any biofilm or even bacteria that become loose are washed into the new media.
Putting gravel on the bottom of the tank will speed up the cycle, but not nearly as much as filter media inside the filter. Gravel can be used in a bag inside the filter but this is only really practical with externals.

Offline Kirstos

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Re: FAO Sue - Quick Cycling Q
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2014, 10:50:19 AM »
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Hi Sue
Quick update - my cycle is finished! Yey! It took about 25 days and my cherry barbs are happily swimming about the tank now :)

Thanks!

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Bala / Silver Shark (5) - Congo Tetra (23) - Rosy Barb (17) - Golden Nugget Plec (2) - Red Tail Black Shark (1) - Siamese Flying Fox (1) - Yoyo Loach (7) - Tiger Barb (23) - Clown Loach (5) - Denison's Barb (7) - Black Neon Tetra (21) - Rummy Nose Tetra (15) - Panda Cory (4) - Fiveband Barb (10) - Bulldog Catfish (1) - Honey Gourami (1) - Bristlenose Plec (2) - Yoyo Loach (3) - Denison's Barb (5) - Checkered Barb (7) - Cherry Barb (5) - Congo Tetra (5) - Black Neon Tetra (13) - Zebra Danio (5) - Honey Gourami (1) - Ember Tetra (10) - Bala / Silver Shark (7) - Tinfoil Barb (5) - Rosy Barb (13) - Yoyo Loach (7) - Red Tail Black Shark (1) - Siamese Flying Fox (3) - Congo Tetra (13) - Golden Nugget Plec (4) - Tiger Barb (17) - Ticto Barb (13) - Silver Dollar (1) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: FAO Sue - Quick Cycling Q
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2014, 01:38:35 PM »
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Well done! That was quite quick for a fishless cycle so it looks as though the gravel did help - or did you use mature media in the end?

Offline Kirstos

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Re: FAO Sue - Quick Cycling Q
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2014, 01:00:45 PM »
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It was the gravel and a little white sponge from the 38 litre but I had added that from the start so it does seem it was the gravel that did it in the end. I had the heater cranked right up and the power filter on max too!

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Bala / Silver Shark (5) - Congo Tetra (23) - Rosy Barb (17) - Golden Nugget Plec (2) - Red Tail Black Shark (1) - Siamese Flying Fox (1) - Yoyo Loach (7) - Tiger Barb (23) - Clown Loach (5) - Denison's Barb (7) - Black Neon Tetra (21) - Rummy Nose Tetra (15) - Panda Cory (4) - Fiveband Barb (10) - Bulldog Catfish (1) - Honey Gourami (1) - Bristlenose Plec (2) - Yoyo Loach (3) - Denison's Barb (5) - Checkered Barb (7) - Cherry Barb (5) - Congo Tetra (5) - Black Neon Tetra (13) - Zebra Danio (5) - Honey Gourami (1) - Ember Tetra (10) - Bala / Silver Shark (7) - Tinfoil Barb (5) - Rosy Barb (13) - Yoyo Loach (7) - Red Tail Black Shark (1) - Siamese Flying Fox (3) - Congo Tetra (13) - Golden Nugget Plec (4) - Tiger Barb (17) - Ticto Barb (13) - Silver Dollar (1) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


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