Water Changes - Proportion Changed - Discussion [some Missing Posts In Thread]

I am quite upset at the moment as for some reason there are changes in my water straight from the tap. Current readings today show my dGH is reading 18! and Nitrates are reading 40. The dGH is a reading from my NT labs kit and the Nitrates result are from testing with both NT labs and API.

I know there are a few roadworks in progress atm and Northumbrian Water state they are currently updating their network in my area to improve services. They also are not giving a dGH number, simply stating 'water very hard' for my area. So I have no idea if my water parameters are permanently changed at this point.

Hi @fishtales

You have every reason to be upset at the moment. Having read this thread, it seems that your dGH should be 8 but it's suddenly increased to 18. Is that correct? Have your fish been subject to this change and, if so, are they OK?

If necessary, you could switch to re-mineralized RO water if you can get this from your LFS/MA.

Please keep us updated.

JPC

Quote from: Matt on January 01, 2020, 02:09:41 PM

Fish contribute nitrogen and fish food contributes potassium.

Hi @Matt

I know that many dried fish foods are high in phosphorus. But, I've never seen published or measured figures for potassium. As I currently have an interest in the latter (for other reasons), I'll devise an experiment to measure the potassium content of a flake food.

JPC

Actually wondering if I have my facts wrong here... I have a fussy baby on my hands though... give me till tonight to confirm.

Not sure why baby brain set in earlier but I was doing ok up till the last minute.... right to break down briefly without giving away the content of my revised site before I actually publish it...

There are Macro nutrients (nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium) and micro nutrients (loads!) In liquid fertilisers you tend to get the choices of  a complete product (micros and macros) or a micros only product (theres other product types but these are the main stay amd as usual im looking to keep thinga simple/easy here). How much complete fertiliser you dose should be dictated by nitrate levels as we want to keep these at high enough levels to promote plant growth but low enough levels so as not to unduly harm the fish. But you can top up the micro fertilisers almost without consequence. Ie. Unlikely to lead to any algae problems if overdosed a little bit (though dont go mad obviously and remember 50% weekly water chamges) and will not harm fish shrimp or snails.

Of the macro nutrients nitrogen and phosphorus are contributed by fish / food wastes. Potassium is the one that there is no significant source of (though it is needed in far less quantities that the other two). Hence why I recommend a micro fertiliser such as JBL Ferropol which also contains potassium because if you assume nitrates and phosphates are available in a heavily stocked aquarium, then this covers all th3 other plant nutrient requirements. Tap water also contains phosphates so even if not heavily stocked just poor quality tap water nigh in nitrates and phosphates the rule tend to fit reasonably well... that's my theory anyway. Not perfect but I've had success with it and it keeps things as simple as I think it should/can be. Dose complete ferts until you are at recommended dosage level or nitrates get too high (I've found they often do even in say 50%stocked tanks) and dose what you didn't in complete in micros only. So for example i dose a third of a weekly complete fertiliser dosage and two thirds of a micros only (with potassium) fertiliser weekly dosage. This needs a diagram yet to come to aid explanation...

Hope that wasn't too long winded and clarifies things!

Quote from: jaypeecee on January 01, 2020, 03:27:36 PM

Quote from: Matt on January 01, 2020, 02:09:41 PM

Fish contribute nitrogen and fish food contributes potassium.

Hi @Matt

I know that many dried fish foods are high in phosphorus. But, I've never seen published or measured figures for potassium. As I currently have an interest in the latter (for other reasons), I'll devise an experiment to measure the potassium content of a flake food.

JPC

Actually wondering if I have my facts wrong here... I have a fussy baby on my hands though... give me till tonight to confirm.

@jaypeecee I was responding to this. The 50% water changes is my recommendation only and is part of what I personally recommend as part of the scape easy approach.  Welcome others views, this is what works in my experience as per my original post above.

Hi Folks,

The name - JBL Ferropol 24 - tells us a lot. For 'Ferro', read 'iron' and the '24' implies daily use. And the colourful picture of a flower on the box shows several 'petals', each with the name of a chemical element. So, we have:

Mn = Manganese
Fe = Iron
Co = Cobalt
B = Boron
Zn = Zinc
Mg = Magnesium
Sn = Tin
+ some extra letters that have obviously been plucked out of the air for good measure!

I was once planning to use this product some while ago. I think the idea is to add a dose every day to ensure an ongoing supply of iron + trace elements, all of which can get used up very quickly. It would not be intended to use on its own as it obviously does not supply any of the macronutrients, i.e. nitrogen, phophorus and potassium. There are some very well-known aquatic plant experts (e.g. Dennis Wong) who would now add sulphur to that list. For more information, see:

https://www.advancedplantedtank.com/#

JPC

We will never be fed up hearing about water as we are all obsessed with it. 

I bought loads of elodea for my recent fish relocation.
I've used it as a sort of sacrificial plant, throwing loads into the tanks when they were set up at the new place here, just so the fish have cover and there are enough live plants available until I can completely re-plant the tanks with the correct plants. Between elodea and moss balls, I'm fairly convinced that this had helped the tanks & inhabitants settle after such a massive move. 

Thanks @jaypeecee Regarding liquid ferts and Nitrates and phosphates. Since I seem to have shifting water parameters from my provider at the moment. My thoughts turned to this product Ei starter kit I assume you can customise it to your needs. Would love to get your opinion on it 

Hi @fishtales

I think I mentioned the EI Method recently on another thread. This is a specialized approach to plant fertilization, which requires a lot of work and advanced knowledge of aquarium plants. If you search for 'Estimative Index Tom Barr', you'll find loads of information about it.

JPC

Those figures really put the quantity into perspective. I will see how my plants progress. If they are struggling I will get the test you kindly linked too, and check what my tanks phosphate parameters look like 

Hi @fishtales

That sounds good to me!

JPC

Good luck with your plants - I'm sure you'll do fine.
In the event that you have difficulty, though, don't despair as you're in good company - I just read yesterday about some folk (very experienced and well-known fishkeepers) having difficulty with plants that are ordinarily considered indestructable but which I can never keep alive myself and therefore which makes me feel marginally better.