Tank Upgrade - Kickstarting The Cycle ?

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Offline fdm

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Tank Upgrade - Kickstarting the cycle ?
« on: September 28, 2014, 10:21:18 PM »
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<edit>
Apols ... just spotted this thread
http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1112.0.html

On that basis is it best to go for my option 3 ?
That transfers all the current bacteria over to the new tank ... they just have to deal with 70 liters of new water.

cheers!
</edit>

Hola!

Some advice if possible please.

I've just ordered my new 110 Liter tank which I'm expecting next week. Happy days! :)
I currently have a 40 liter tank. Tropical fish.

The question is, can I use any/all of the water from the 40 Liter to kickstart the bigger tanks cycle?
My three options as I see it.

1) Leave the 40 liter well alone and start from scratch on the 110 liter

2) Do a 25% water change on the 40 liter and put that water in the new tank. Wash the filter out in that 10 liters of water for more bacteria, then add 110 liters of new water to the new tank. In another two weeks do another 25% change and add that to the new tank after draining 10 liters. Continue until all happy!

3) Move all 40 Liters into the new tank and add 70 liters of new water :S Migrate old filter ( and all its lovely bacteria ) over to the new tank as well as the substrate. Run both old and new filter together. There is unfortunately no turning back on this method :P

My gut feeling says that option 2 is the way forward.
Could anyone advise differently or confirm that this isn't moronic ? :)

Many thanks in advance!



Offline Puffin

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Re: Tank Upgrade - Kickstarting the cycle ?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2014, 07:58:01 AM »
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Hi fdm,
Are you transferring all your fish and leaving the old tank empty? If so option 3 is probably the way forward. (Although you may not need to bother transferring over the water)
The good bacteria are in the filter, not the water, and there's not much ammonia in a mature tank so transferring the water over won't do much.
If you are planning to run both tanks, follow sue's advice in the link you posted.
She will no doubt be on here later today to give more expert advice anyway.

What do you mean by 'no turning back?'

Offline fdm

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Re: Tank Upgrade - Kickstarting the cycle ?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2014, 08:14:18 AM »
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Thanks for the reply Puffin!

Yes, I'll be transferring the fish over to the new tank.

The 40L has a fluval U2 filter in it that will be simple to transfer over and run concurrently with the new system which has a built in filter.

By no turning back I meant that if things start to go wrong, I can't take the fish and their original 40L of water back out and put them in their old tank :)

Cheers

FDM

Offline dbaggie

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Re: Tank Upgrade - Kickstarting the cycle ?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2014, 12:53:17 PM »
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Given that you already have a tank running I would disregard option 1 - nothing wrong with this approach but it will take quite a while and it seems a shame not to take advantage of the tank you already have running.

Otherwise it may depend on how patient you are really! Option 3. should be the faster as you would effectively be just transferring a cycled 'tank' (i.e. bacteria in the filter) from one to the other. I would also transfer the water in this case because whilst most of the bacteria will exist in the filter, there will still be some bacteria on the contents of the tank and in the water. The subsequent addition of fresh water to fill the remainder of the larger tank shouldn't make any difference as the amount of waste being produced won't be changing. You would most likely lose some of the bacteria through the transfer process but it shouldn't make any significant difference and the bacteria will soon recover.

If you're a bit worried about the prospect of having no fall back and you're not in any rush then I'd go with Option 2. The way I would kick-start the cycle (this is what I did recently) would first be to do a decent water change from your existing tank (1/4 to 1/3) and put this in your new tank then top up with fresh (declorinated). Then take some of the media out of your existing filter and put it in the new filter (again about 1/4 to 1/3) and replace this using media out of the new filter. I would also then add some contents from the existing tank such as decorations (as these have a beneficial bio-film). You can then either do a fishless cycle using ammonia (which should be much quicker than starting from scratch) or potentially transfer a small amount of fish to start with (i.e. about 1/4 to 1/3 of your current stock) as the bacteria you've transferred should be able to cope with this amount, and then gradually add more fish over time whilst keeping a close eye on the tests. This might not be quite the ideal and/or most scientific approach but should work and allows you to keep the other tank as backup should the worst happen.

Offline Sue

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Re: Tank Upgrade - Kickstarting the cycle ?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2014, 07:30:16 PM »
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Everyone has beaten me to it!

Option 1) requires a lot of patience especially as you have the means to do a short cut.

Option 2) as in your post wouldn't do much. dbaggie's suggestion of moving some media is better. I know you said that the new tank has a built in filter but you can chop sponges up or put ceramics from the middle of the U2 into a mesh bag, both inside the new filter.

Option 3) is the easiest. You would need to run both filters together for at least 6 weeks then remove the media from the U2 a bit at a time. Putting some U2 media into the new filter would help as it would be in direct physical contact with the new media making bacteria transfer easier.
The bacteria will take a long time to colonise the new media until you add more fish. With just the same fish, the bacteria in the U2 will be enough for the waste from those fish and there will be no reason to migrate to the new filter. Adding more fish, and moving a bit of media will force them to multiply (more ammonia) and the old media in the new filter will encourage them to move into the new media.

Offline fdm

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Re: Tank Upgrade - Kickstarting the cycle ?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2014, 10:07:34 PM »
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Thanks for the very helpful replies everyone!

So I think I'll go for option three since it allows me to enjoy the new tank much sooner :)

I'll get it set up, fill with new water and let it warm up overnight.
I'll then migrate everything over, including the old water.

I'm happy to run the U2 in conjunction for as long as it takes. I can switch it to deep irrigation mode anyway which will help with new plants that I want to put in.

I'll also remove one of the sponges ( replacing with a fresh one ) and chop it up for the new filter to help it out.

Soon ... more fishies! :)

Thanks again for the help, much appreciated!

FDM


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