Author Topic: Sue's fishless cycle (Read 42469 times) 172 replies

SteveS · « **Reply #140 on:** April 19, 2013, 11:27:29 AM »

Quote from: jesnon on April 19, 2013, 11:15:35 AM

Out of interest - I've never actually tested my Kh... should I have bought a test to check this? :s

Unless you have an overwhelming need to know, it depends on how hard your water is. If it's kh 3 like Sue's; you need to keep an eye out for fluctuations as it can cause a pH crash and that's bad news. However, if your water is kh 16-18 like mine, it is indestructible and buying a testing kit is a waste of time because I know the answer will be "very hard".

jesnon · « **Reply #141 on:** April 19, 2013, 11:30:58 AM »

Thanks Steve - according to my water company my water is hard to very hard so I suspect I don't need to bother then!

TigzFish · « **Reply #142 on:** April 19, 2013, 11:49:22 AM »

Quote from: Sue on April 19, 2013, 09:53:21 AM

It was 4 days since the last water change, and with the amount of ammonia I've been adding, the nitrate reading should have been about 30 - but this test is only ballpark so the reading of 40 is about right. I did not think I had added nearly enough ammonia to make enough nitrate to crash my pH even with my low KH but I was wrong The pH was as low as the test can measure, so 6.0 or below
That'll teach me for not taking my own advice to keep an eye on the pH

This is very similar to my experience when setting up my 64ltr "FishBox" last year. Though I have to say that my NitrAte levels were a great deal higher when my pH crashed. It was that Bicarb trick that you suggested to me last year (old forum) that helped me get through the problem. Glad you caught this before going away.

Sue · « **Reply #143 on:** April 19, 2013, 12:43:49 PM »

The danger point for KH is 4 or below. With 3, I should have been checking the pH more often. It didn't matter when there was only the tap level of 5ppm nitrate and I was doing water changes to keep nitrite below 5. But once my nitrate level started rising as the nitrite level fell, I should have been checking pH. I just didn't think the nitrate level I had would be a problem. That's another reason for me doing regular water changes on tanks with fish - it gets rid of the nitrate as well as topping up the KH.
Several years ago, I got a bit lazy with water changes and discovered my pH was dropping. I came on here to ask (there was an advisor back then) and he suggested I had a low KH so I bought a test kit. Rather than add remineralisation salts as the advisor suggested (which would have increased both GH and pH as well, something I don't want) I've found that doing large, regular water changes keeps the pH stable.

Do shops test for GH and KH? I know they test for things like pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate and it would be useful if they would also test for the two hardnesses. That would save people having to splash out on their own testers and would be useful for those doing a fishless cycle so they could avoid my problem.

jesnon · « **Reply #144 on:** April 19, 2013, 02:18:58 PM »

I know Pets at Home do free water testing, not sure if they test things like that though :-(

Sue · « **Reply #145 on:** April 19, 2013, 08:38:21 PM »

Day 40 update

12 hour results:
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 5+
Nitrate between 10 and 20 (nearer the 20 colour)
pH 8.0

Hmmm, my nitrite seems to be having a Jesnon-type blip

Though I do have a reading for nitrate higher than my tapwater usually is and I did a 100% water change this morning $:-\$ But at least the pH is now nice and high after adding all that bicarb this morning. Just as well I won't be able to get a betta this weekend or I'd be feeling very frustrated. On the plus side, my mother says she's quite capable of dosing ammonia while we're away, it's testing the water she doesn't want to do.

One slight change to the tank - it's now got sand on the bottom

I thought I may as well start growing some biofilm and bacteria on that rather than on the glass.
Errrrrrrm, and I did squeeze the sponge gently in old water from another tank while I was changing the water in that tank. It was quite disgusting with white slime. I originally just intended cleaning the goo off the slits in the filter casing but when I saw the sponge I did that too. I probably killed off the nitrite eaters

Warning to everyone else - don't clean your filter media during a cycle! Or perhaps the pH drop followed by a sudden increase has shocked them. Though I do have increasing nitrate..........

Edited because I've just done a nitrate test

Sue · « **Reply #146 on:** April 20, 2013, 12:59:07 PM »

Day 41 20 April

24 hour results:
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0.25
pH >7.6

Ammonia added - 1.0ml, less than yesterday

I don't know what happened yesterday. The nitrite reading was definitely at the highest colour (5ppm) after 12 hours. And I did it twice to check. But the nitrite eaters cleared virtually all of it between 12 and 24 hours after adding ammonia. All I can think of is that the drop in pH then the rise when I added bicarb shocked the nitrite eaters but not the ammonia eaters. I obviously didn't kill them cleaning the filter sponge or there would still a 5+ nitrite reading this morning.
I've decided to add a bit less ammonia till we are back from my father-in-law's funeral. I've added 1.0ml ammonia this morning rather than 1.5ml, though as we went out straight after I couldn't check the ppm.
I'll be able to dose tomorrow morning, my mother will add some Monday morning, then I'll dose again as soon as we get back on Tues afternoon. When I get back to regular dosing and testing times, I'll be able to see where I am in the cycle.

8.30pm; 12 hour results
Nitrite 0.5

I'm also checking the pH evertime I test as well. Just the normal range - so long as it stays at or near the top of that range, that's fine by me. I don't need to know the actual value even if it's off the top, just that it's not crashed again.

Sue · « **Reply #147 on:** April 21, 2013, 09:30:13 AM »

Day 42 21 April

24 hour results:
Nitrite 0
pH >7.6

Ammonia added to give just over the 1ppm colour

Resa · « **Reply #148 on:** April 21, 2013, 09:34:56 AM »

Morning Sue,

I hope everything goes well for you, have a safe journey.

Sue · « **Reply #149 on:** April 23, 2013, 07:47:15 PM »

Well, Im back. Mum has fed the tank with ammonia on both mornings we were away, I'm just waiting till 9 o'clock to do 12 hour tests. Fingers crossed everything's going OK with the cycle. It can't be as bad as father-in-law's funeral $:-\$

The funeral service was fine with sons, grandchildren, great granddaughter, brother, cousins, nephews etc all in attendance. Then we drove to the cemetery to find the grave hadn't been dug.

The interment was scheduled for 3 o'clock. We had to go to the wake, then back to the funeral home for interment at 5.50. What a mess. The funeral director was disgusted, and made some very irate phone calls to the council while we were at the wake. Brother-in-law is threatening to go to the press, local and national, about it.

My husband is being quite philosophical about it, surprisingly. He works for a council and knows that things like this do go wrong. We'll probably never find out what happpened here, but he suspects someone hit the wrong key and entered 23 instead of 22 for the date.

jesnon · « **Reply #150 on:** April 23, 2013, 08:46:17 PM »

Sorry to read about that Sue - sounds awful. Funerals are difficult enough without things going wrong :-(

Sue · « **Reply #151 on:** April 23, 2013, 09:06:21 PM »

Day 44 23 April 2013

12 hour results
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0.25
pH >7.6
KH 11 - 12

My mother added 1.0ml both mornings when I wasn't here. The nitrite reading seems to be dropping slowly after 12 hours, so still some days to go yet. And the KH level is also dropping slowly, need to keep an eye on it.

Thanks Jesnon. You read about things like this but you don't expect it to happen to you. It's more common to open the wrong grave, apparently, rather than not open it at all; but it's still upsetting. $:-\$

Resa · « **Reply #152 on:** April 23, 2013, 10:14:29 PM »

Hi Sue,

Glad you're home safe and sound...it's been quiet around here

Bunch of flowers in order for your mum then for doing a sterling job tank sitting

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience at your father-in-laws funeral, it does make you wonder if anyone can do a proper job these days.....it's really not a thing to be messed up.

Hope tomorrow is better for you, back to your normal routine,

Resa

ColinB · « **Reply #153 on:** April 24, 2013, 08:29:24 AM »

I'm sorry that you got so messed around Sue - really not good.

Sue · « **Reply #154 on:** April 24, 2013, 02:20:29 PM »

Day 45 24 April
24 hour results
Nitrite 0
pH >7.6
Added 1.1ml ammonia (slightly higher than the last few days)

Bought a new ammonia tester this morning - the master kit was £35 so I just got ammonia as I'm running out of that one. Doing a test 3 hours after adding ammonia showed that the new one measures slightly higher than the old one. I have had the old one a couple of years and being almost empty there is a lot of air in the bottles - and oxygen in the air does adversely affect the reagents.

Thanks for the support everyone. It could have been a lot worse. If the funeral had been scheduled for later in the day, the interment could only have taken place the next day. As it was there was just enough time for the grave to be opened the same day. My brother-in-law has taken it hard though - he seems to think it was his fault somehow just because he did all the arrangements.

Update
12 hour results:
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0.5
Nitrate somewhere between 40 and 80
pH >7.6

Nitrite is proving to be a sticking point. Ammonia is clearing in 12 hours but nitrite just can't get there in that time, though it is completely cleared in 24 hours.
Now I have a new ammonia tester I'll have a better idea tomorrow of just how much ammonia I'm adding.

Sue · « **Reply #155 on:** April 25, 2013, 11:17:30 AM »

Day 46 25 April
24 hour results
Nitrite 0
Added 1.2 ml ammonia to give between 2 and 4 ppm.

The new test kit is giving higher readings for ammonia than the old one. I'm inclined to believe the new tester because the old one has had air in the bottles for a while as there wasn't much liquid left, and with the old tester I was getting too much nitrite from the amount of ammonia I thought I was adding. Since I only need to cycle to 2ppm ammonia, I'm going to reduce the amount I'm adding.

jesnon · « **Reply #156 on:** April 25, 2013, 05:14:36 PM »

Glad to see your cycle appears to be almost complete Sue!

Sue · « **Reply #157 on:** April 25, 2013, 08:45:48 PM »

Day 46 update

12 hour results
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0.5
pH >7.6

Since it would seem my old ammonia tester was reading a bit low and instead of adding what I thought was ~1.5ppm I've been adding over 2ppm, I've probably got enough bacteria for a betta. That 0.5ppm nitrite at 12 hours comes from just 0.2-ish ppm ammonia. Tomorrow, I'll try to add just 2ppm ammonia and see what happens at 12 hours.

Sue · « **Reply #158 on:** April 26, 2013, 10:16:04 AM »

Day 47 26 April

24 hour results
Nitrite 0
95% water change
Ammonia added to ~2ppm

Decided to do a water change as the nitrate level will be high by now. I didn't add any bicarb because it's Saturday tomorrow and if we go to the garden centre where they sell my husband's preferred brand of lawn feed, they also have a Maidenhead Aquatics. If they have a betta I like, I'll get one; if they don't I'll add bicarb tomorrow. It'll probably be weeks before I find one I like though. The shop where I got the ammonia tester didn't have any at all, let alone a nice one. Part of my problem with choosing is that I like short finned bettas (plakats) and not many places sell them - well, except in the female betta tanks in places where they can't tell the difference $:-\$

jesnon · « **Reply #159 on:** April 26, 2013, 11:13:12 AM »

Ooh good luck for tomorrow then Sue, fingers crossed you find a nice new betta for your patiently cycled tank!

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Sue's Fishless Cycle

Sue's Fishless Cycle

Author Topic: Sue's fishless cycle (Read 42469 times) 172 replies

TigzFish

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