Started Fishless Cycle

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Offline Andy64

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Started fishless cycle
« on: July 29, 2018, 11:04:22 AM »
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Hi, I have started the fishless cycle of my 200 LTR aquarium, I added 4ml of ammonia three days ago and ammonia ppm was around 4 - 5 , I added another 3ml of ammonia today and ppm is the same and there is no nitrite reading ? is this normal ? This is the first time I have done a fishless cycle so have nothing to compare it to   :-\ ,

Offline Fishbeard

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Re: Started fishless cycle
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2018, 11:25:17 AM »
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There's a very good guide to fishless cycling stickied at the top of this section. If you follow it, you won't go far wrong.

As you're only three days in to your cycle, I'm not too surprised by your results. It can take a bit of time for the cycle to start up - the guide here doesn't give a time scale, but just a pattern of adding ammonia, testing, then waiting. Once your tests start to show a reduction in ammonia and an increase in nitrite then you're on your way, but you're only just starting the cycle, so don't worry too much.

Offline Andy64

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Re: Started fishless cycle
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2018, 11:46:53 AM »
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Hi, thanks for the reply, yeah I am following it, because it says test for nitrites I sort of expected there to be some indication that nitrites would be present. I am only a few days in, so will calm down and be patient  :)

Offline fcmf

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Re: Started fishless cycle
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2018, 12:04:38 PM »
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I definitely wouldn't be overly concerned - eg https://forums.thinkfish.co.uk/fishtank-filtration-and-cycling/cycling-fish-tank-10-days-in-tet-figures-not-really-moving/msg8146/#msg8146

I see, from a previous post of yours, that you have very soft water. Sometimes this can pose difficulty in a fishless cycle and bicarbonate of soda is required to avoid the cycle from stalling (which I think happened in my own case - my water is even softer than yours). I think it's too early at this stage to judge whether you need that or not, but those with more extensive and recent experience of fishless cycles, and especially with soft water, might be able to help you out with this better than I can.

Offline Sue

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Re: Started fishless cycle
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2018, 12:33:50 PM »
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What was the ammonia reading before adding the second dose? It should be below 0.75 ppm before adding any more ammonia.
Also, I would do a water change to get the ammonia level down to 3 ppm. if you add too much ammonia it will make so much nitrite that the cycle will stall.

Have you used any mature media to kick start the cycle? That sometimes results in ammonia dropping low but no nitrite appearing.

Offline Andy64

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Re: Started fishless cycle
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2018, 12:48:21 PM »
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Oh dear i have read it wrong  :yikes: i thought it meant on the third day after adding more ammonia, test for ammonia and nitrites ............ Anyway i would say ammonia reading was around two when testing this morning I added another 3ml of ammonia , I now realise that i shouldn't have done that and I should have waited for it to drop to 0.75ppm. Tests I have just done are : ammonia 4ppm, nitrites 0 and PH 7.5  .

Offline Sue

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Re: Started fishless cycle
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2018, 02:17:39 PM »
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Put it down to my poor skills at explaining  :)

Yes, continue testing every third day until ammonia has dropped below 0.75. By then, nitrite should be over 2 ppm. Because of their molecular weights (or whatever that's called these days) 1 ppm ammonia is turned into 2.6 ppm nitrite.
When I did a fishless cycle, I did find that the ammonia reading sort of wandered about a bit until nitrite started to show up, then it dropped quite quickly. Unlike nice chemical reactions which follow nice predictable paths, we are dealing with biological entities which never stick to the path properly  :)

Offline Andy64

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Re: Started fishless cycle
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2018, 03:32:36 PM »
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Not at all Sue, it makes complete sense now I've read it again  ;D. I`ll do a partial water change and see if I can get the ppm level to 3 ppm. At least i`m on the right track now  :)) . Thank you for the advice.

Offline Andy64

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Re: Started fishless cycle
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2018, 11:38:20 AM »
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Still around 3 - 4 ppm ammonia and no sign of nitrite , just over a week in now. I have turned the heater up full , I read somewhere that this can help the process, but got to say it's worse than watching paint dry  :))

Offline Matt

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Re: Started fishless cycle
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2018, 01:41:04 PM »
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It can be frustratingly slow...

Is there any chance you can get some mature media from somewhere? That would really speed things up!

Offline Sue

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Re: Started fishless cycle
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2018, 02:21:19 PM »
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My fishless cycle did nothing till day 26  :o

Do you have soft or hard water? If it soft you probably also have low KH. Let us know if it is soft as there are things you can do.

Offline fcmf

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Re: Started fishless cycle
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2018, 02:24:10 PM »
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In a previous post, Andy64 mentions his water hardness as 50 CaC03 mg/l or dH 2.83. Over to you, @Sue, to explain the bicarbonate of soda aspect as you have more experience of it / explaining it than I do.  ;D


Offline Sue

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Re: Started fishless cycle
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2018, 02:47:20 PM »
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I had missed that, thank you fcmf.

There are two aspects to low KH - and KH is a measure of the amount of carbonate and bicarbonate in tap water.
Firstly, the bacteria need inorganic carbon to grow at an optimum rate. Inorganic carbon is basically carbonates and bicarbonates.
Second, fishless cycling makes a lot of nitrite and then nitrate. Both of these are acidic. The substances that make up KH react with these acids to stop the pH falling. If KH is high, there is no problem but if KH is low it will all get used up leaving nothing to stop the pH falling. With my first fishless cycle and KH of just 3, I had a pH crash - the pH dropped off the bottom of the scale. This stalls the cycle as the bacteria stop multiplying below pH about 6.5

The solution is to either do a lot of water changes, redosing ammonia to the level it was before the water change; or add bicarbonate of soda. This is found in small plastic tubs in the home baking section of the supermarket - there may already be some in your kitchen cupboards.
Add some bicarb to a bit of water and when it has all dissolved, pour it into the tank. I used it at the rate of 1 level 5 ml spoon in 25 litres. It will also cause your pH to go up which is not a problem as the bacteria multiply faster at higher pH.
Test pH every time you test ammonia & nitrite so you'll be able to pick up a potential pH crash before it happens.

At the end of a fishless cycle you do a big water change to remove all the nitrate made during the cycle. If you remove as much water as possible, this will also remove virtually all the bicarbonate of soda. Once there are fish in the tank you'll be doing 50% weekly water changes which will top up the natural KH. The pH may drift slightly lower between water changes but the water changes will prevent a pH crash.

Offline Andy64

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Re: Started fishless cycle
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2018, 03:18:25 PM »
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Thank you everyone for all the help and advice, it really is appreciated  :). Yes I do have soft water , unfortunately I don't think I can get any mature media from anywhere ?. I will check my KH , I do have the testing kit , so will let you know very soon,  :)

Offline Andy64

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Re: Started fishless cycle
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2018, 03:29:29 PM »
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KH seems very low, put one drop in and the sample turned blue as it should, second drop turned the sample to a very light yellow. According to my test kit the value is 1 dh , ideal value should be 6 dh. I will look in the cupboard for the bicarb and add some to the water.

Offline Sue

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Re: Started fishless cycle
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2018, 03:55:20 PM »
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Try starting at the rate of 1 x 5ml spoon for every 25 litres tank water. As long as that takes the KH above around 6 it should be OK. But keep a regular eye on the pH.


Ignore what the test kit says about an ideal value. For pH, GH and KH there is no ideal; your tap water is what it is. You just need to buy fish that have a GH requirement the same as your tap water GH. What is ideal for soft water fish is very much not ideal for hard water fish!

Offline Andy64

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Re: Started fishless cycle
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2018, 06:23:47 PM »
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OK, I have added around 5 teaspoons of bicarb and this has raised the KH to 7 , the PH has raised slightly to 8,
this is according to the test chart . I am using the Aquarium Lab, NT labs kit.

Offline Sue

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Re: Started fishless cycle
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2018, 06:42:48 PM »
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That should stop a pH crash  :)

When you do the big water change at the end, you'll reset KH and pH back to tap levels.

Offline Andy64

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Re: Started fishless cycle
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2018, 07:30:11 PM »
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Thanks for all the advice  :) , i'll test again in a couple of days.

Offline Andy64

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Re: Started fishless cycle
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2018, 08:00:02 PM »
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Ever since I have put the bicarbonate of soda in the tank it has taken on a cloudy appearance, is this normal ? and will it eventually clear ?

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