Fish Dying Off In My Tank Over The Last 3 Months

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Offline ColinB

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Re: Fish dying off in my tank over the last 3 months
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2016, 11:18:24 AM »
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TH = Total Hardness, what we would refer to as GH, or general hardness
CH = Carbonate Hardness, what we refer to as KH
pH = how acid or alkaline your water is. 7 is neutral, less than 7 acidic, more than 7 alkaline
NO2 = Nitrite level
NO3 = Nitrate level
Cl2 = Chlorine level

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
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Offline Paddyc

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Re: Fish dying off in my tank over the last 3 months
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2016, 11:29:56 AM »
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Just wanted to add if anyone uses the JBL strips tests and can tell me how to decipher them I'd be VERY grateful

I found a helpful video demonstration on youtube. The music is a wee bit annoying and the guy is a bit clumsy but you get a good demo on using the chart and paying attention to the correct wait times before checking the parameters

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO43W1FLlOI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO43W1FLlOI</a>

Offline Sue

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Re: Fish dying off in my tank over the last 3 months
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2016, 11:45:55 AM »
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You'll notice that the strips don't include ammonia. That level is the one that is causing most comments. I think you can get strips that test for ammonia separately.

The lack of ammonia is one of the major criticisms of strips.

Offline Paddyc

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Re: Fish dying off in my tank over the last 3 months
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2016, 11:49:08 AM »
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You'll notice that the strips don't include ammonia. That level is the one that is causing most comments. I think you can get strips that test for ammonia separately.

The lack of ammonia is one of the major criticisms of strips.

Incredible that it is overlooked, isn't it?  :isay:

Offline Sue

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Re: Fish dying off in my tank over the last 3 months
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2016, 12:06:42 PM »
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I think there is some technical reason they can't put it on the strip with the other tests but I've no idea what that reason is.

Offline rosaleen

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Re: Fish dying off in my tank over the last 3 months
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2016, 07:38:26 PM »
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I'm trying to answer many points and questions so bear with me
I've had a tank since 2010 at least, (On sue's advice at that time I got a Thames water quality report which states when I downloaded it)
The water parameters have always been roughly what they are now. I've never lost fish on this kind of scale before. Many  lived for a number of years.ie approx. 3/4 years. Not wonderful but not bad either.
Currently after testing the tap water myself for comparison with the tank water
The tap ammonia is  just under O .25.  Should that read ....>25 ?
The tap pH 7.8
Tap nitrate 40 -80

 Did the API liquid test today........
PH 8,2 nitrate 40-80 (it's gone up a little to what  it was, possibly cos I kept feeding as though I had more fish. I m correcting this now ) nitrite O, ammonia just under O .25.

When the MA did their strip test they quoted, (and I know cos I wrote it down),
100 for ammonia .
PH7.2 - 8
Nitrate 50-100
Paddy thanks for the link with the YouTube I will have a look at it
Colin B thanks a lot for the translation

Sue re the API ammonia reading, I totally agree it's is difficult to read accurately.  can't think of anyone else to ask
However what I did do in March after getting the first cories from MA was test THEIR water which had the fish in.
Don't know if the half hour journey home added to the ammonia content due to the fish waste , but MAs ammonia  was higher than mine, The MA water was definitely greener than mine.
I'll respond to other points on my next post.
Thanks again for all your help.
Rosie


Offline fcmf

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Re: Fish dying off in my tank over the last 3 months
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2016, 07:40:28 PM »
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Just wanted to add if anyone uses the JBL strips tests and can tell me how to decipher them I'd be VERY grateful

Hi Rosie,

I’ve got the JBL test strips; the main issue is that each test has its own column of possible results, except for GH which has a horizontal ‘pattern’ of 4 boxes.

1.   Hold ‘tube’ with, from left to right, tests in this order:
NO3 – nitrate; NO2 – nitrite; GH – general hardness; KH – carbonate hardness; PH - acidity or alkalinity; Cl2 - chlorine [thanks, Colin]
NO3 – 1st column of boxes; NO2 – 2nd column; GH – 3rd-6th columns (but these are read as a horizontal set of 4), KH – 7th column, PH – 8th column; Cl2 – 9th column.

2.   Take a container/test tube of water out of the tank.

3.   Dip a strip in it for 2-3 seconds.

4.   Lightly shake strip to remove excess drips.

5.   Place strip in front of tube on table, making sure it aligns up correctly – the long bit with no boxes on it should be on the right. [see my pic]

6.   The Cl2 test (extreme right) should be read immediately – if its colour is the same as the bottom one of the 4 in that column (ie bright yellow), then it’s fine, but if it’s one of the other 3 colours above, you’ve got chlorine in your water.

7.   After a minute has passed, you can then decipher the other readings – best to do this without leaving it any longer, as the results tend to darken up and change if you leave it for too long (as I’ve noticed when I see them lying in the rubbish bin). Going from left to right, have a look to see which colour on your test strip matches which colour in the column of colours above (the GH one is different as it’s a set of 4 colours):
*NO3 (1st column) – if colour on your test strip is same as one of the bottom 3 in the column (25ppm or under), that’s good; the darker the colour, the more nitrates you have as indicated by the numbers to the left of the column ie the number beside the box colour most resembling that on your test strip.
*NO2 (2nd column) – if colour on your test strip is same as bottom one (0ppm – completely white), that’s good; anything darker than that means that you have nitrites and the reading is as indicated by the numbers to the right of the column ie the number beside the box colour most resembling that on your test strip.
*GH (3rd-6th columns) – the next 4 colours on your test strip should come out as some combination of purple and blue or even all purple or all blue – work out how many of each and see which ‘pattern’ (combo of colours) it resembles, and the result is the number to the left of that set of 4.
*KH (7th column) – the next colour on the test strip (3rd from right) should be some shade of green or dark blue – work out which in the column it resembles, and the result is the number to the left of the column.
*PH (8th column) – the next colour on the test strip (2nd from right) is the PH – work out which colour in the column it resembles, and the result is the number to the right of the column.
*Cl2 (9th column, most extreme right) – reading which you’ll have done first.
   
You’ll soon get used to this, and, once your tank is settled, you should hopefully get regular readings of - marginally pink; white; set of 4 boxes; another colour; another colour; yellow – which you’ll come to learn of as normal and soon recognise if something looks amiss/unusual on a particular testing day.  Hope that very detailed, step-by-step instruction helps but feel free to ask further questions.
:fishy1:



Offline fcmf

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Re: Fish dying off in my tank over the last 3 months
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2016, 08:28:52 PM »
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Apologies re my last two posts, didn't realise there was a page  2 Duuhhhhh

I've deliberately removed your test posts now in my capacity as 'moderator', so no worries. :)

Offline rosaleen

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Re: Fish dying off in my tank over the last 3 months
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2016, 07:54:47 AM »
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Firstly thanks fcmf for removing my two posts and more importantly a big thank you for the extremely detailed instructions
I'll get it printed to keep and use.

OK the dreaded ammonia which was pinpointed as a likely cause ..........

Your post Sue  re the difficulty reading API charts led me to getting an updated Thames quality report Dec 2014
IF I'm reading the right one ...Ammonium NH4 .. It reads
Min <0.030.   Mean 0.05.  Max 0.14
Though I've manually tested tap water in the past I have not  done it side by side with the tank water.
 So carefully pre rinsing one test tube,  pipette and cap in tap water and the other set  in tank water I did a comparison....
The look exactly the same!  No one could have been  more surprised than me, not to mention relieved. :cheers:

So  now I'll start to look at people's other posts and ideas to try and track the down the problem
Rosaleen
 Ps one minor ammonia point.  At the MA when they did the strip test and I  noted their readings I was definately told ammonia was 100 :yikes: (I remember asking and being horrified by the reply ) but if strip tests don't do ammonia I don't understand where that figure comes from. Can't find the post on here to personally acknowledge what someone said about not trusting strip tests or the shops that do the tests. So apologies for that.

Offline fcmf

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Re: Fish dying off in my tank over the last 3 months
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2016, 08:11:08 AM »
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Firstly thanks fcmf for removing my two posts and more importantly a big thank you for the extremely detailed instructions
You're welcome.

Ps one minor ammonia point.  At the MA when they did the strip test and I  noted their readings I was definately told ammonia was 100 :yikes: (I remember asking and being horrified by the reply ) but if strip tests don't do ammonia I don't understand where that figure comes from. Can't find the post on here to personally acknowledge what someone said about not trusting strip tests or the shops that do the tests. So apologies for that.
API and Tetra both make ammonia test strips but they're separate and not contained in the 5-in-1 or 6-in-1 test strips.  It's very possible that your LFS did the test using one of those two strips. 

The liquid-based test kits tend to have a better reputation generally, although I think there's a benefit of using both to cross-check against one another. Personally, I find nitrate and nitrite results accurate on the paper test strips but find the GH and KH tend to read as higher than they ought to and the PH slightly lower (when compared with water company's results and liquid-based kits but I find the liquid-based kits tend to produce a higher PH than they ought to). That's not to say you'd have the same experience with them, though.  I'd advise not relying solely on the test strips given that the liquid-based ones have a better reputation, but they are very convenient to use (once you get used to them).

Offline rosaleen

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Re: Fish dying off in my tank over the last 3 months
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2016, 07:08:57 AM »
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Thanks fcmf for  your last info. It's all very helpful.  I had decided to get the strip tests to cross reference my liquid tests.
 More answers now to the  questions which were asked about the problem of my fish dying off.
 My tank is 89 litres  minus what the plants,  bog wood and gravel take up. I have an aqua 1050 which the manufacturers say is for "up to 200/300litre tanks"  Every 10 days I do a water change of 25/26 litres so approx one third. (I can imagine some hands going up in horror that I don't do a water change every 7 days) and yes I use Aqua safe.
I think I've said it before in detail but can't get to page I of the posts to verify, I clean the filter every 12-14 weeks with the old tank water immediately after a  water change.
The only thing I'm knowingly guilty of is perhaps slight over feeding which I then compensate for in a panic by having a non feeding day approx every 10 days.
 I have top,  middle and bottom feeders. I had started to use the cubes a lot more, from approx every five days to usually every second or third day. I think it's because I looked in detail at their dietary requirements and felt the fish flakes,  veg tablets weekly courgette  2/ 3 times weekly catfish pellet for the Bristlenose  and occasional algae wafer weren't covering their needs.  I used to give sinking pellets which I ground down but when I renewed  the food stock because I'd had it for quite some time I didn't get any new sinking pellets.
Other  people's feedback on their preferences on food would be appreciated.
Rosaleen

 I'll put my next lot of Aqua balls in the filter as advised. So far there have been no further deaths and no signs of ill health.


Offline ColinB

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Re: Fish dying off in my tank over the last 3 months
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2016, 08:00:30 AM »
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You seem to be doing everything right and taking really good care of your fish. I wouldn't do such a big water change as it can change water parameters too quickly, perhaps 20% max. and every 10days is fine as long as the Nitrate doesn't build up more than 20ppm between water changes.

Let's hope the episode is over.

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Panda Cory (7) - Honey Gourami (3) - Ember Tetra (9) - Lemon Tetra (4) - Cherry Barb (1) - Otocinclus (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline rosaleen

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Re: Fish dying off in my tank over the last 3 months
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2016, 02:56:30 PM »
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Thanks  ColinB for the advice on the water  changes percentage and  nitrate info.
If I am doing everything right it is ONLY because of all the help and support I've had from this forum especially when I first started as a total beginner years ago, and most especially from Sue.


Offline rosaleen

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Re: Fish dying off in my tank over the last 3 months
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2016, 11:43:21 AM »
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Belated thanks to fcmf and the  others, especially for the comparisons between liquid and strip tests. All of your comments I have taken on board and I now alternate between strip and liquid at water changes, which I've also reduced to 20 litres.
The tank is still stabilised and am now thinking of introducing a small group of hardy fish, to test this stabilisation. But I can't think which might be best; any ideas that people have would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

Offline Paddyc

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Re: Fish dying off in my tank over the last 3 months
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2016, 12:07:29 PM »
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Belated thanks to fcmf and the  others, especially for the comparisons between liquid and strip tests. All of your comments I have taken on board and I now alternate between strip and liquid at water changes, which I've also reduced to 20 litres.
The tank is still stabilised and am now thinking of introducing a small group of hardy fish, to test this stabilisation. But I can't think which might be best; any ideas that people have would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

Excellent news that your tank has stabilised, rosaleen  8)

How long has your tank been established? Since you have neons and harlequins already, I would suggest (since I'm biased) that you might be best to boost your shoal numbers of these two species (or even just one shoal). It will make the fish happier in their larger numbers and they are both hardy species for established tanks.

Just my tuppence.  :)

Offline Fiona

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Re: Fish dying off in my tank over the last 3 months
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2016, 12:20:53 PM »
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There's a thread somewhere on here listing fish suitable for hard water like yours Rosie. I'll try and find it for you.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Fish dying off in my tank over the last 3 months
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2016, 01:56:44 PM »
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This link was posted in the thread that Sue has mentioned. Being in an area that also has hard water I saved the link for future reference.  ;D
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwhardness.htm

Offline Fiona

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Re: Fish dying off in my tank over the last 3 months
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2016, 10:11:39 PM »
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Thankee Donna

Offline rosaleen

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Re: Fish dying off in my tank over the last 3 months
« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2016, 03:06:02 PM »
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Thanks for all your replies :wave:
. Re length of time my  tank has been stabilised,it's a good job you asked me Paddyc, as when I checked my dates it's really only about 4 weeks.  ::)So I think I need to wait a bit longer.
First, of all, I will check the hard water website that's been recommended by Fiona and  Littlefish before making any decisions about which fish to get.

Offline Paddyc

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Re: Fish dying off in my tank over the last 3 months
« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2016, 06:14:58 PM »
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Ah yes, that's a good thing then. Sometimes it's not an answer you need, just someone else to ask a question you haven't already asked yourself  :cheers:

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