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Restarting Tank

Author Topic: Restarting tank  (Read 5092 times)

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Offline barneyadi

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #50 on: February 11, 2018, 07:50:50 PM »
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Thanks Sue

Just getting a little frustrated I suppose. Not in a great rush for fish but would be good to start soon whilst other tank cycles.
Oh well, add more ammonia tomorrow and see what happens.

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #51 on: February 13, 2018, 03:02:24 PM »
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Test every day until the day ammonia is below 0.25 and nitrite is below 1.0. Then add another 3 ppm ammonia and continue testing every day. Continue like this till they are both zero 24 hours after adding ammonia.

So Nitrite is 0.93ppm today. But ammonia is showing 0.37ppm. Should I add ammonia or wait till it drops below 0.25. Visually I would say ammonia looks like 0.25ppm if that helps.

Offline Sue

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #52 on: February 13, 2018, 04:07:16 PM »
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If it was my tank I would wait till tomorrow just to give those nitrite eaters and extra day  :)

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #53 on: February 13, 2018, 07:09:22 PM »
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Being slightly impatient I tested again now, Nitrite down to 0.33ppm and ammonia 0.37ppm. Would you still wait or would you top ammonia back to 3ppm?

Offline Sue

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #54 on: February 13, 2018, 07:10:18 PM »
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With those readings, add it now  :)

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #55 on: February 13, 2018, 07:14:06 PM »
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With those readings, add it now  :)

Ok, topped back to 3ppm and will test this time tomorrow.

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #56 on: February 14, 2018, 07:19:45 PM »
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Well now i am very puzzled.

Tested for Nitrites and zero reading. Yippee I thought.

Then tested for Ammonia and for some reason I have 1.27ppm? Any ideas? I did leave the top off of ammonia test 1, could that of caused this problem? Any other ideas?

Offline Sue

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #57 on: February 14, 2018, 07:30:06 PM »
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Did you repeat the test? All sorts of things can give false readings - miscounting drops, tube not as clean as it should be etc.
I wouldn't have thought leaving the top of a bottle for such a short time (I assume it was 24 hours?) shouldn't do too much harm.

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #58 on: February 14, 2018, 07:30:48 PM »
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Yes, did a second test and got same result. Maybe a third test?

Offline Sue

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #59 on: February 14, 2018, 07:37:54 PM »
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If 2 gave the same result, I don't think a third is necessary. Even if it was different, you would still have 2 out of 3 the same.

I would wait till tomorrow, see what the results are then and if ammonia has dropped, add another 3 ppm. But this time, test the tank water after half an hour to see if the reading is 3 ppm. If it's higher, that will show something wrong with the tester.

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #60 on: February 14, 2018, 07:47:16 PM »
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Hi Sue

Was a little rash and just topped ammonia back to 3ppm now. Will test in 30 minutes and see what the reading is and then see what reading is tomorrow.

Offline Sue

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #61 on: February 14, 2018, 07:49:30 PM »
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Adding the ammonia won't do any harm since your nitrite reading is so low. The danger is when nitrite is still building up and more ammonia could push nitrite high enough to stall the cycle. This isn't the case here  :)

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #62 on: February 14, 2018, 08:20:26 PM »
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Ok, topped ammonia back up and reading is 2.92ppm, so will check things this time tomorrow and hopefully both are reading zero.

Maybe I miscalculated the last ammonia I added, but should know tomorrow.

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #63 on: February 15, 2018, 08:33:58 PM »
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Ok, emergency time. Until yesterday I was putting in 3ppm ammonia and when checking was getting figures between .25 and .50ppm. Yesterday my nitrite was zero but for some reason my ammonia was 1.24ppm. So topped up with ammonia and tested and had 2.91ppm. Tested today and ammonia is 1.58ppm, nitrites nil.
So where have the ammonia eaters gone?

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #64 on: February 15, 2018, 08:59:29 PM »
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Not sure if it is a clue, but my ph level seems to have dropped to 6.4 from 7.

Offline Sue

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #65 on: February 15, 2018, 09:02:12 PM »
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First of all, don't panic. You are dealing with biological entities which never stick to a line on a graph.

I know you want to get fish - we all get very impatient waiting for cycles to finish. The nitrites are zero because for some reason your ammonia eaters are only making a small amount of nitrite and you have enough nitrite eaters to deal with that.

How do you feel about doing a water change? A fairly big water change. Then wait till ammonia is very low, and redose ammonia.




You posted again while I was typing - yes the pH drop could have a lot to do with it. Definitely do a water change as that will get your pH back up.
Remind me, do we know what your KH is? And what does your nitrate read as? If you have low KH and lots of nitrate (which is acidic), that would account for the pH drop. A water change will remove nitrate and replenish KH.

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #66 on: February 15, 2018, 09:07:28 PM »
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My kh when I started was 5 so will check again in an hour and will check nitrates and post result then.

Can do a water change, will do it tomorrow.

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #67 on: February 15, 2018, 10:14:30 PM »
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So Nitrate is 82ppm. A little difficult with the KH Test due to the light but could be anywhere between 0 and 3, would guess 2 so is a sizeable drop.

So with those figures I guess a water change is the way to go.

Offline fcmf

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #68 on: February 15, 2018, 10:26:47 PM »
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Are you using test strips or a liquid test to measure KH? The reason I'm asking is because I find the test strips inflate KH and GH quite considerably, while liquid tests for KH are much more accurate. If it's a liquid test kit, then a tip I learned from Sue and which works really well, is to put 10ml rather than 5ml of water in the test tube, then count the number of drops and divide by 2 - it's much easier to see in the event of a borderline reading.

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #69 on: February 16, 2018, 08:34:02 AM »
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Are you using test strips or a liquid test to measure KH? The reason I'm asking is because I find the test strips inflate KH and GH quite considerably, while liquid tests for KH are much more accurate. If it's a liquid test kit, then a tip I learned from Sue and which works really well, is to put 10ml rather than 5ml of water in the test tube, then count the number of drops and divide by 2 - it's much easier to see in the event of a borderline reading.

Hi I am using a liquid test, API. The light in my room isn't great at night but will test today before water change.

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #70 on: February 16, 2018, 12:21:11 PM »
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So that is tank water changed. Will do tests in a couple of hours. If ammonia is under 0.5ppm will top it up to 3ppm, if not will wait till tomorrow.
That sound like a plan?

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #71 on: February 16, 2018, 02:42:00 PM »
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So have done about a 90% water change today and figures are as follows

PH 7.2
KH 3 ( will test tap water as sure it was 5)
Ammonia 0.10ppm
Nitrate 9ppm (Although 12 out of tap)

Will add in 3ppm ammonia and test tomorrow. Should I be worried by the low KH? Any things I need to plan for?

Offline Sue

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #72 on: February 16, 2018, 04:59:44 PM »
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My tap water is KH 3. When I did a fishless cycle with the old "add ammonia every time it drops to zero" method, I did suffer a pH crash so when I did the second I added bicarbonate of soda right at the beginning. But because you are so near the end, you shouldn't make much nitrate no so the pH shouldn't drop again


Something I had completely forgotten about - adding a small amount of plant fertiliser. If you intend having live plants, use whichever fertiliser you intend. You won't need to add as much as you would for plants but the minerals in it will help the bacteria.

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #73 on: February 16, 2018, 05:10:03 PM »
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What if I'm not adding live plants. Could I still add fertiliser?
My new tank is 12 days into cycle, would it be beneficial to put bicarb of soda in that one? And if so, how much?

Offline Sue

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #74 on: February 16, 2018, 05:20:09 PM »
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If you want to add bicarb it will mean doing a 100% water change once the cycle finishes to remove all the bicarb before putting fish in there. Use at the rate of 1 x 5 ml spoonful per 25 litres. Dissolve it in some water first then pour that into the tank.
Bicarb is sold in the home baking section of the supermarket in small plastic tubs. You may already have some in the kitchen.

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #75 on: February 17, 2018, 02:21:02 PM »
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So tested today after my ph drop. Ammonia was 0ppm and nitrites were 0.80ppm which seems to show things havent been hurt by the drop. And nitrites seem to be heading in right direction. Will add 3ppm ammonia and test again tomorrow.

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #76 on: February 17, 2018, 04:16:43 PM »
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I keep forgetting to ask. If I check tomorrow and both ammonia and nitrites are 0ppm, does that mean I am cycled, or should I add another 3ppm dose and check to see if both zero the next day?

Offline Sue

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #77 on: February 17, 2018, 04:22:42 PM »
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You only need to have both zero 24 hours after adding 3 ppm ammonia once. So if you add 3 ppm today and they are both zero tomorrow, you are cycled.

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #78 on: February 18, 2018, 02:39:41 PM »
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Well I think today is the day. Nitrites are visually 0 (0.05ppm by colorimeter) and Ammonia is 0 visually as well (0.10ppm by colorimeter). So am I now cycled?
I did a 90% water change on Friday and my Nitrates today are 30ppm. Do I need to do another full water change or could I get away with a smaller percentage?
Hopefully will add fish tomorrow. Will acclimate the fish temperature wise but in a different thread it seems i shouldnt worry so much about getting GH and KH close. Is that right?

Offline Sue

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #79 on: February 18, 2018, 02:42:54 PM »
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Did you add any bicarb?

You give your tank nitrate at 30 - what is your tap water nitrate? If it is lower, you will need to do a water change as nitrates are best kept below 20 ppm, tap water level permitting. (By that I mean that the lowest a water change can get it is the level of nitrate in your tap water)

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #80 on: February 18, 2018, 02:46:56 PM »
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Hi Sue

No I didn't add any bicarb. Out of the tap my Nitrate is 3ppm. I only asked about doing a lower water change as having just done a 90% on Friday I am hoping I can get away with a smaller one.

Offline Sue

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #81 on: February 18, 2018, 02:53:18 PM »
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With such a large difference between tap and tank nitrate, you really do need to get that level down. Don't forget that every ppm ammonia you've added is turned into ~3.5 ppm nitrate. It will go up more once you have fish (unless you do get some plants!) And nitrate does need to be kept below 20 ppm where tap water levels permit.

I am trying to persuade you to do a large-ish water change  ;D

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #82 on: February 18, 2018, 02:56:19 PM »
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Ok, will do a large change. But apart from that, with ammonia and nitrites at zero, I could add fish tomorrow for instance?

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #83 on: February 18, 2018, 05:02:33 PM »
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So managed to do a 98% water change. So am I ok to get fish tomorrow for instance? What sort of stock level should I aim for?

Offline Sue

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #84 on: February 18, 2018, 05:32:47 PM »
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In theory, you can get all the fish on your wish list. But there may be some species that do better in mature tanks (ie once that has been running trouble free for several months) rather than a newly cycled tanks, so they will have to wait a bit.
But if you don't want any fish that need mature tanks I would still say get no more than 80% of your wish list as this leaves a bit of wiggle room should something not go as planned.

Of course, you may find the shop that stocks all the fish you want won't let you buy them all at once, so you'd need to be devious eg ask a friend to buy some of them for 'their' tank.

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #85 on: February 22, 2018, 02:05:16 PM »
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Well all seems to be going well in my first tank, ammonia level is near zero and fish are happy.

Second tank has been going 2 weeks or so and finally today has been a ammonia drop to 1.50 and nitrite has gone up to 2.17 so that is a good sign.

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #86 on: February 22, 2018, 09:53:10 PM »
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Good news  :cheers:

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #87 on: February 22, 2018, 10:27:52 PM »
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 :)
 :cheers:

Offline fcmf

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #88 on: February 22, 2018, 10:32:29 PM »
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That's good news and sounds promising.
 :cheers:

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #89 on: February 23, 2018, 03:05:29 PM »
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In the fishless cycle guide it says at some point you only top up to 1ppm and do checks every second day, is that still correct?

Offline Sue

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #90 on: February 23, 2018, 05:00:27 PM »
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Yes, that's right.

The reason for this is adding too much ammonia makes so much nitrite it stalls the cycle. Adding just 1 ppm at least 4 days apart keeps the ammonia eaters fed and stops nitrite getting to stall point (~15 to 16 ppm). Depending how fast ammonia drops to zero after the 3 ppm dose of ammonia in stage 6, that could mean adding 1 ppm in as little as 4 days, or 6 days later or 8 days later - there must be 2 zero readings for ammonia 2 days apart.

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Restarting tank
« Reply #91 on: February 23, 2018, 08:30:04 PM »
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Thanks Sue

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