Newbie's Fishless Cycling - Brown Water Query

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Offline sunshine

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Newbie's fishless cycling - brown water query
« on: January 28, 2015, 05:22:52 AM »
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Hi

Newbie here so any help will be really appreciated   :) 

I have a fluval 23l tank with a few live plants including anubis & moss.  Also have a couple of small lava rocks and a small piece of mopani wood that I rinsed before adding to the tank.

This is my fishless cycling data so far:

Test 1 (10.01.15):
0.4ml ammonia added to start [0.2 x 2 for 20l tank as 0.2ml/10l]
   Waited 30min’s checked ammonia = not on scale (still clear water)
   Added 0.4ml ammonia
   Waited 30min’s checked ammonia = 8.0ppm = highest reading ☹
         Added fluval bacteria

Test 2 (11.01.15):
        Ammonia = 4ppm phew!

Test 3 (13.01.15):
   Ammonia = 4ppm
   pH high range = 7.4
   Nitrite = 5ppm
   Partial water change, checked ammonia = 2ppm

Test 4  (15.01.15):
   Ammonia = 0.5ppm
   pH high range = 7.4
   pH (normal) = 7.6
   Nitrite = 5ppm
   Added 0.4ml = 3ppm (checked after 90 min’s)
   Added fluval bacteria

Test 5  (16.01.15)
   Ammonia = 0.25ppm
   Nitrite = 5.0ppm
   Left it as is – test again 20.01.2015
   Added fluval bacteria

Test 6  (20.01.15)
   Ammonia = 0ppm
   Nitrite = 5.0ppm
   pH = 7.6
   Added 0.4ml ammonia

Test 7  (22.01.15)
   Ammonia = 0.25ppm
        Nitrite = 0ppm
        pH = 7.4
        Added 0.4ml ammonia

Test 8  (25.01.15)
   Ammonia = 0.25ppm
   Nitrite = 0ppm
   pH = 7.4
   Nitrate = 20ppm
        Added 0.4ml ammonia

Test 9  (27.01.15)
        Ammonia = 0ppm
        Nitrite = 2.5ppm
        Partial water change as water is brown to see if water clears.
        Added 0.4ml ammonia

  About a week ago, brown algae was visible but that disappeared and now the water is just brown.

Thanks in anticipation!








   



Offline fishcake76

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Re: Newbie's fishless cycling - brown water query
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2015, 08:41:11 AM »
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Hi Sunshine,

I imagine the brown water is caused by the tanins being released from your mopani wood. It is always a good idea to soak your wood in a bucket for a few weeks before adding it to the tank. The tannins are not harmful in any way to plants or fish but they don't look very nice!!!

You can leave the wood in your tank if you like and it will continue to release tanins but when you do your final water change you will remove most of these. It may take a few water changes to get rid of all of it but it will clear in time.

Hope that helps.

FC76

Offline sunshine

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Re: Newbie's fishless cycling - brown water query
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2015, 08:57:35 AM »
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Thanks for replying, FC76.  I was wondering if it was the wood or the rocks causing the brown water.  I rinsed them quite a lot because the rinsed water was very brown but then it cleared so I though it was ok.

Offline Sue

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Re: Newbie's fishless cycling - brown water query
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2015, 11:11:14 AM »
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Wood does tend to leach that brown colour for several weeks or even months, I'm afraid. The main danger during cycling is that it can cause a pH crash in soft water. Your pH is holding up well, so I don't think you need to worry, but while the water is brown, keep an eye on the pH. You don't need to bother with the high range tester as that won't show if the pH does drop. Your pH level looks like mine, right on the boundary between the two testers.

Your cycle appears to be round about step #9 in this method. I would use this method to see when to add ammonia and if you think the bottled bacteria is helping, add that too.



Once the cycle has finished, you will want to get fish. 23 litres is quite small, so your choice of fish will be restricted.
Do you have any fish in mind?

Offline sunshine

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Re: Newbie's fishless cycling - brown water query
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2015, 01:59:35 PM »
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Hi Sue

Thanks for the advice.  The pH was on the boundary so I wasn't sure which one to use but I'll just use the non high range test from now on.

That's the fishless cycling method I've been trying to use with a few glitches along the way (caused by my lack of knowledge & experience).  I'm pleased to see it's working.

Wish I'd found this forum earlier i.e. before I bought the tank.  I wanted a small tank to start off with as I thought that would be easier for me as a newbie.  Only when I read the forums did I realise it's too small for many fish. 

As a child we had tetras but I've read they are very 'stressed out' fish & need to be in groups of 6 or so.  So no tetras.  I would really like fish rather than shrimp so if you have any suggestions, please let me know.  I have seen a few people have a betta in their 23l tanks but I'd rather have 2 or 3 smaller fish if possible.

Thanks

Offline Sue

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Re: Newbie's fishless cycling - brown water query
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2015, 02:44:24 PM »
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Do you know how hard your water is? Just because you have an alkaline pH you don't necessarily have hard water - I have the same pH as you but softish water.
Your water company should have that information somewhere on its website - look for a section where you have to type in your post code. Hardness has several units but only two of them are used in fishkeeping - if you find your hardness, make a note of the unit as well.

Once we know your hardness, we can suggest fish. For example, if you have hard water endlers livebearers (males) would be a good choice; if you have soft water, something like chili rasboras would be fine.

Offline sunshine

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Re: Newbie's fishless cycling - brown water query
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2015, 09:00:18 PM »
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Our water hardness level: very soft
Hardness Clarke: 2.100 Clarke

Our water comes from the Lakes. 


Offline Sue

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Re: Newbie's fishless cycling - brown water query
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2015, 02:09:48 PM »
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If you have very soft water you do have more choice of fish than if you had hard water. And the comment I made a few posts back about keeping an eye on your pH is more important as with a low GH you'll also have low KH, and it is carbonate (ie KH) which stabilises pH. During cycling, there is some weird chemistry going on and it can cause the pH to drop if you have low carbonate. Once you have fish, regular water changes will keep it topped up - in fact with hardness as low as yours, two smaller water changes a week might be a better option than one bigger one. So two 15 to 20% changes rather than one 25 to 30% change.


As for fish, practically anything that comes from the Amazon would suit your water though of course with a small tank you have to choose smaller fish.
A shoal of celestial pearl danios (aka galaxy rasboras)
A shoal of ember tetras
A shoal of one of the fish in the Boraras genus

And before anyone comments, yes I know that celestial pearl danios and Boraras aren't from the Amazon  ;)

A shoal of 9 or 10 of one of those species would fit nicely in a 23 litre tank, though I would start off with half a dozen and add a few more as the tank matures - it is safer to stock up to the tank's limit after it has been running for a few months.
I say just one species of fish as you'd need around 5 each if you got two species and fish this small are happier in bigger shoals of their own kind.

Offline sunshine

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Re: Newbie's fishless cycling - brown water query
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2015, 03:40:10 PM »
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Thanks so much for the advice Sue - that is really helpful.  I am getting excited now about having fish in my tank after the cycling & having to be patient.

I've searched for the species you have mentioned and I'll try & pop into the pet store tomorrow to have a look at them so I can decide.  I'd quite like one species and I'm surprised I could have so many in this tank. So I'm very pleased!   :)

Test 10 (29.01.15)
Ammonia = 0ppm
Nitrite = 0ppm
pH = 7.6
Nitrate = 20ppm

Any advice?

Thanks again!

 








Offline Sue

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Re: Newbie's fishless cycling - brown water query
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2015, 04:08:44 PM »
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With those readings, add enough ammonia to get 3ppm and test after 24 hours. if both ammonia and nitrite read zero, do a water change and buy fish.

If you can't get to the shop straight away, or decide what to get, add a 1ppm dose every 2 or 3 days, then do the big water change on or the day before fish shopping day.



I have just realised that the link for the Boraras genus went to ember tetras  :-[ I have changed the link to what it should have been so if you click on it now, it will go to the right site.
I have seen B urophthalmoides (aka sparrow rasboras), B brigittae (aka brigitte's rasboras or chili rasboras) and B merah in shops. And shops often mis-label them but as the care for all three is the same, it doesn't really matter. These fish, and ember tetras, look washed out in shop tanks. once they have settled in your tank they will colour up.

Offline sunshine

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Re: Newbie's fishless cycling - brown water query
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2015, 09:15:38 PM »
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Thanks for changing the link. My preference would be for blue-coloured fish if possible.  I've found a blue rasbora and wondered if they would be ok in my tank..... Sundadanio axelrodi?

I'll take your advice, as you've been so helpful.  If I can’t have blue fish this time, maybe when I get a larger tank, I’ll be able to!   ;)

Offline Sue

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Re: Newbie's fishless cycling - brown water query
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2015, 09:26:42 PM »
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I have some of those, they do prefer soft acid water. I have GH 6 and pH 7.5. I lost a couple within a few days of purchase but most of them have been fine for over a year. They aren't as intense a blue as, say, neon tetras but they are a pale blue on their backs.
The only problem you might have is finding them. I've only seen them once, and bought them.

Sundadanio axelrodi - more info than on here.

Offline sunshine

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Re: Newbie's fishless cycling - brown water query
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2015, 09:37:05 PM »
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Ok, I'll go hunting for them   :)  I'll check the water tomorrow and see if it's ok.  I'll let you know the outcome. 

Thanks again, I'm really grateful for all your help Sue! 

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