My First Time Fishless Cycling - Doing It Right?

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Offline Extreme_One

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My first time fishless cycling - doing it right?
« on: May 29, 2015, 08:37:58 PM »
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I have read the guide and it gave me just the confidence I needed to get started.
Thank you for putting it together. :cheers:

The thing is I've now had a crisis of confidence so wanted to ask the experts here if things sound like they're progressing as they should be.

I've not changed any water since 1st fill and my aquarium currently has only substrate and bogwood, no plants.

On the first day, as well as dosing with the ammonia, I squished the filter sponge from the kid's Guppy tank (this was cycled with fish-in  :-[ ) to start things off.
I've turned up the temperature to about 28c / 83f and lowered the water level to maximise surface agitation.

Day 1    3ml dose of ammonia to start gives me a reading of 3ppm
Day 2   did nothing.         
Day 3   reading 1.5ppm ammonia and   2ppm nitrites
Day 4   reading 0.5ppm ammonia and 3ppm nitrites. Added another 3ml ammonia
Day 5   did nothing         
Day 6   reading 0ppm ammonia and 3ppm    nitrites.   Added another 3ml ammonia
Day 7   reading 0ppm ammonia and 5ppm    nitrites. Added 1/3 dose: 1ml ammonia
Day 8   did nothing      
Day 9   reading 0ppm ammonia and 5ppm   nitrites.  Added 1/3 dose: 1ml ammonia
Day 10   did nothing         
Day 11 today 29/5/15   reading 0ppm ammonia and (approx?) 5ppm nitrites. Added 1/3 dose: 1ml ammonia


So phase 1 of the cycle seems to be complete, in that I'm converting all the ammonia in 24hrs, but phase 2 seems to be lagging. I understand it is likely to take longer.
 
So just wanted to check: am I doing things correctly and do I just need to be more patient for the next stage to kick in?

Any other advice at all will be gladly received.


A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Tiger Barb (1) - Cardinal Tetra (17) - Otocinclus (1) - Agassiz's Dwarf Cichlid (2) - Ornamental Snails (50) - Assassin Snail (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: My first time fishless cycling - doing it right?
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2015, 02:17:30 PM »
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Patience is the word now.

Strictly speaking you should have:
Day 1 - added 3ppm ammonia
Day 2 and day 3 - nothing
Day 4 - tested and got 0.5ppm ammonia and 3ppm nitrite; add 3ppm ammonia
Day 5 - nothing
Day 6 - tested and got 0ppm ammonia and 3ppm nitrite (though you should really have missed 2 days and tested on Day 7)

So far, so good.
But you shouldn't have added any more ammonia yet. You need 2 test days with zero ammonia.  So you should have continued:

Day 7 - nothing
Day 8 - tested and if ammonia had been zero then as well, add 1ppm ammonia.

The problem you are facing is that you added 3ppm ammonia on Day 6 instead of waiting for Day 8's test results. It is likely that your nitrite is too high. The chap who wrote this method intended that it should never give a too-high nitrite because if nitrite gets over 15ppm, it stalls the cycle. And our test kits can't measure that high so we don't know if it is too high; all readings over the highest on the colour chart just show as that level.

The simplest way to get back on track is a water change. Big enough to dilute the nitrite reading to around 2 to 3ppm. Maybe test a sample and see how much you need to dilute that then you know how big the water change needs to be.
Once you have a nitrite reading in the middle of the chart, go to step 9. That is, test every second day and if ammonia is zero and nitrite over 1, add the one third dose. As soon as the every-second-day results are ammonia under 0.25 and nitrite under 1ppm, you will be at stage 10; that is when you add the full 3ppm dose and test in 24 hours.



1ppm ammonia is converted to 2.7ppm nitrite. You added 9ppm ammonia by Day 6 and even allowing for some nitrite to be converted to nitrate, that would have pushed the nitrite level over the 15ppm critical level.

Offline Extreme_One

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Re: My first time fishless cycling - doing it right?
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2015, 03:59:46 PM »
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Thank you so much Sue. That's exactly the kind of advice I was hoping for to get me back on track.

Of particular interest to me was the description of the fact that 1ppm ammonia converts to 2.7ppm nitrite. That explains things much more clearly, sorry if I missed that fact elsewhere.

This is fun! I keep telling my wife I should get a white lab coat.

I've come to the conclusion that fishkeeping is more about looking after the bacteria in the water so that they look after the fish for you. :)

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Tiger Barb (1) - Cardinal Tetra (17) - Otocinclus (1) - Agassiz's Dwarf Cichlid (2) - Ornamental Snails (50) - Assassin Snail (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: My first time fishless cycling - doing it right?
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2015, 04:12:54 PM »
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I've come to the conclusion that fishkeeping is more about looking after the bacteria in the water so that they look after the fish for you. :)

That is very true. If the water is right, the fish more or less look after themselves.


I didn't include the ammonia to nitrite amounts in the method as I didn't want to make it more confusing than necessary. I figured I could always tell someone who was interested separately.
And just for completion, that same 1ppm ammonia, after it has been converted to nitrite and then onwards to nitrate, ends up as 3.6ppm nitrate. This is why nitrate gets quite high during cycling, and the reason for the big water change at the end, before you get fish.

Offline Extreme_One

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Re: My first time fishless cycling - doing it right?
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2015, 04:34:21 PM »
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Well I think I've made a bit of a mistake (again)

I changed about 60% of my water (not using RO yet, that will come after the cycle)

After the water change I tested for Nitrites and they're barely registering - might even be zero - the API test is very bluey-looking. I think I went too far and changed too much.

So .... What do I do now?

Do I dose with some ammonia now? Or do I wait until tomorrow?

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Tiger Barb (1) - Cardinal Tetra (17) - Otocinclus (1) - Agassiz's Dwarf Cichlid (2) - Ornamental Snails (50) - Assassin Snail (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: My first time fishless cycling - doing it right?
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2015, 05:00:36 PM »
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I would play it cautiously. Add a one-third dose now and test after 48 hours. The ammonia eaters won't starve (like it used to be thought).
In 2 days, if the results are zero ammonia and nitrite over 1, add another one-third dose and test again in another 2 days.
But if the results are ammonia less than 0.25 and nitrite less than 1, add the full dose and test after 24 hours.

This way, you'll find out in a couple of days if your nitrite eaters are growing nicely without the risk of making too much nitrite if they aren't.

Offline Extreme_One

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Re: My first time fishless cycling - doing it right?
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2015, 05:05:36 PM »
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Thanks Sue.
Dosed another 1ml and I'll test again in 2 days.

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Tiger Barb (1) - Cardinal Tetra (17) - Otocinclus (1) - Agassiz's Dwarf Cichlid (2) - Ornamental Snails (50) - Assassin Snail (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Extreme_One

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Re: My first time fishless cycling - doing it right?
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2015, 12:52:34 PM »
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Well after yesterday's big water change I added a one third dose bringing ammonia up to 1ppm.

I couldn't resist taking measurements again today (day 12) and unsurprisingly my ammonia was at 0ppm.
I was very surprised to read nitrites at 0ppm.  :yikes: Already?

I did seed from an previously cycled tank so that certainly kickstarted things.

I had forgotten to mention I have been dosing with Interpet Filter Start, every other day.
I don't have particular faith in these kind of products but, as it came free with my setup, I thought I might as well use it. Perhaps it's helped, a little, too ...


On Sue's advice I've now added a full dose to bring ammonia back up to 3ppm and I'll test again tomorrow, hoping for two zeros.

Once I know the cycle is compete, because I haven't yet decided how I'm going to manage RO water and I've yet to plant up, I'll keep the cycle going by adding a one third dose every other day and a full 3ppm dose every two weeks.
Then a big water change the day before the first inhabitants are added, to get rid of the nitrates.

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Tiger Barb (1) - Cardinal Tetra (17) - Otocinclus (1) - Agassiz's Dwarf Cichlid (2) - Ornamental Snails (50) - Assassin Snail (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Extreme_One

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Re: My first time fishless cycling - doing it right?
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2015, 06:19:26 PM »
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Came home from work and tested ammonia and nitrites. Two zeros. Yay!  :cheers:

Thanks again for your advice Sue.

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Tiger Barb (1) - Cardinal Tetra (17) - Otocinclus (1) - Agassiz's Dwarf Cichlid (2) - Ornamental Snails (50) - Assassin Snail (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: My first time fishless cycling - doing it right?
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2015, 06:58:29 PM »
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Well done  :)

 


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