Is This Enough Filtration?

Author Topic: Is this enough filtration?  (Read 5694 times) 12 replies

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline brian c

  • Super Fishy Member
  • *
  • Posts: 167
  • Likes: 0
  • Tropical Fish FTW!
Is this enough filtration?
« on: April 04, 2015, 04:53:50 AM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
On my 20 gallon high that I am planning,I am planning to have two aqua clear 150 filters. My stocking will be
12 espei rasboras
12 pygmy cory
12 celestial pearl danios
12 lampeye kilifish.
5 otos(maybe only 1 or 2)
I also want to keep some shrimp and small snails like nerite snails.the shrimp i'm gonna keep are gonna be mostly small shrimp but a few big shrimp.
3-5 bamboo shrimp
1 or 2 vampire shrimp
cherry shrimp
amano shrimp.

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator Subscriber
  • Superstar Think Fishy Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9866
  • Likes: 403
Re: Is this enough filtration?
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2015, 10:39:11 AM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Just the espeis, cpd's and cories make you 100% stocked, then you want to add more fish on top of that. Stocking is not about the amount of filtration, it is about the number, size, bioload and compatibility of the fish. Your list checks the compatibility and size boxes but it does not check the number and bioload boxes.
Reduce the numbers of each species by half or lose one completely and reduce the rest by about a third and you'll be OK.

The good thing is that you have chosen fish that are good in a short tank. You said it was 20 gall tall, which means it as not a long as a standard. 20 galls is around 70 litres, how long is the tank?


Offline brian c

  • Super Fishy Member
  • *
  • Posts: 167
  • Likes: 0
  • Tropical Fish FTW!
Re: Is this enough filtration?
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2015, 05:17:39 AM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Hmm.... There is no way that I would be willingly to give up one species or another,so I guess my only choice would be to reduce the numbers. The original way puts the number of fish at 53. If I make it so that I only have schools of 8 and bring the oto down to 2 then that brings the number of fish to 34. That is a 19 difference, do you think that I am in the green zone yet? I am not known for under stocking, so this is new territory for me.
 
There is no such thing as a standard 20 gallon tank,only a 20 gallon tall and a 20 gallon long. But the 20 gallon tall is what is sold the most, and is mostly accepted as the standard tank. The 20 gallon high is 24 inches long,16 inches high,12 inches in depth. The 20 gallon long is 30 inches long,12 inches high,12 inches in depth.
I have the 20 gallon high....(I tend to repeat myself sometimes.)

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator Subscriber
  • Superstar Think Fishy Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9866
  • Likes: 403
Re: Is this enough filtration?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2015, 10:16:57 AM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Sorry, I meant to say 20 long not 20 standard. We don't use those terms in the UK, I only know about tall and long from reading other forums which have American members.

What stocking ultimately comes down to is getting fish that a) get along with each other b) have a big enough tank c) have their species needs met d) the amount of them don't crowd the tank or add too much waste to the tank.

a) is quite simple - will this fish eat that fish; will these fish fight and probably kill each other; have I got more female livebearers than males because males harass females; and so on.

b) this is quite simple too. A tank should be at least 5 times longer that a fish's full adult size and 1.5 times wider. This applies mainly to very large fish and is to allow a fish room to move. And fast swimming fish need a much larger tank than you'd think from the size of the fish. Like zebra danios which can cross a 4 foot tank in less than a second need a tank longer than 24 inches.

c) this gets more complicated as you have to research the fish. Shoaling fish need to be in a group. Hard alkaline water fish need hard alkaline water and shouldn't be put in soft acid water with a lot of soft acid loving fish. Cave dwelling/spawning fish need caves. Fish that sift the substrate for food do better with sand. Fish that hide in the substrate do better with sand. Timid fish need lots of places to hide.

d) this is the most complicated of all. Animals are made of a lot of proteins which contain nitrogen. Different species use different ways to get rid of nitrogenous breakdown products. We turn them into urea which is dissolved in water to make urine. Birds turn it into uric acid which comes out with their poo. Fish turn it into ammonia which comes out through their gills. The filter turns this ammonia into nitrate and we have to do water changes to get rid of it. The more fish there are and the messier the fish are, the faster this nitrate builds up so the bigger and more often we have to do water changes to get rid of it.
But their is more in our urine than just urea. Have you ever had a sample of urine sent off for testing, or know anyone who has? I once worked in a hospital lab and we tested for many things in urine. Fish make their versions of these things as well, and they excrete them into the tank water. The filter does not remove these chemicals, they build up in the water like nitrate. And some of these chemicals can affect the fish. Too many fish results in stress from high levels of these chemicals. This is why we try not to over stock our tanks. It's not about how many fish can I fit in this tank but how many fish can I put in this tank without causing chemical stress.
I did say it got complicated.


With your tank being just 24 inches long, it does limit the species you can have because of lack of swimming room. The fish in your list should be OK; cories, cpd's espies and otos are not fast swimming fish that need a long tank. But I don't know about the killifish because I can't find out info from sites I trust. I'm not even sure which species you mean because lampeye killifish could be Aplocheilichthys kingii, Poropanchax normani, Aplocheilichthys normani, Micropanchax macrophthalmus to name a few that google finds for that name.

And I forgot to mention before about otos. These should only be put into a tank that has grown a lot of algae. They can be very picky eaters and can starve in a tank which doesn't have the kind of algae they like. Some people have managed to get them eating zucchini (courgette for UK members!) or sushi nori but not all otos will eat these. If your tank is not full of algae, wait to get the otos until it is.

Offline brian c

  • Super Fishy Member
  • *
  • Posts: 167
  • Likes: 0
  • Tropical Fish FTW!
Re: Is this enough filtration?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2015, 11:25:36 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Oh I only said lampeye kilifish, I meant to add something else. I meant to say norman's lampeye kilifish. I am getting all of my fish from this site.http://www.bobstropicalplants.com/shop/en/. I will also get the final inhabitants for my two 10 gallon tanks. Also i meant to say that i will get the otos after a few months. I like them for them, I don't need them to eat algae. But I will let some algae grow before i get them.
Soooo,will the filtration be good?

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator Subscriber
  • Superstar Think Fishy Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9866
  • Likes: 403
Re: Is this enough filtration?
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2015, 11:02:38 AM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
I have not come across HOB filters in any of the shops I use; they are much more popular in the USA than here. So I googled yours to see what they are like, and couldn't find the 150's. I could only find aqua clears with numbers up to 110, even on Hagen's US website.
Can you tell me what the turnover of your filters is in litres per hour (it should give that figure on the packing or in the instructions) and what size tank Hagen says they are rated for?
The manual for the smaller filters say they have sponge, carbon and biomax. I would ditch the carbon and get more biomax or sponge. You don't need carbon full time but filter manufacturers still insist on using it.

But as long as the filters are rated for a tank the size you have, that's fine. Adding more filtration does not allow to to put more fish in the tank, well only a few more not a lot more. As I explained before, filters only remove ammonia and nitrite and with too many fish lots of other things will build up and harm the fish.


Norman's lampeye - it's not on Seriously Fish but I have found it on Badmans Tropical Fish. It says 10 galls is fine, but doesn't give a tank length. Though I've never seen a 10 gall longer than 24 inches, so they should be fine.

Otos are an awkward fish, they very often die within a couple of weeks of buying them. They are all wild caught, and those that survive the capture process are often kept in algae free containers till they are shipped. Once they reach a certain point of starvation they can't start eating again. When you buy otos, you should always wait until they've been in the shop at least 2 weeks so that the weak ones will already have died, then choose the ones with fat stomachs as those will be eating. The problem with getting them on-line is that you won't know what condition they are in and you do risk having them die in your tank.

Offline brian c

  • Super Fishy Member
  • *
  • Posts: 167
  • Likes: 0
  • Tropical Fish FTW!
Re: Is this enough filtration?
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2015, 11:39:51 AM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
I am not sure how many liters it turns over per hour but I do know it is rated for 30 gallons.

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator Subscriber
  • Superstar Think Fishy Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9866
  • Likes: 403
Re: Is this enough filtration?
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2015, 11:59:08 AM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
If Aqua Clear 150s are rated for 30 galls, one will be more than enough for 20 galls. Putting 2 in won't make any difference to the number of fish you can keep in there.

Offline brian c

  • Super Fishy Member
  • *
  • Posts: 167
  • Likes: 0
  • Tropical Fish FTW!
Re: Is this enough filtration?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2015, 12:48:00 AM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
really? Because i thought i would have to have more filtration. Because the more fish equals the more oxygen they will need,unless I don't know anything how the basic way of life works.

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator Subscriber
  • Superstar Think Fishy Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9866
  • Likes: 403
Re: Is this enough filtration?
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2015, 09:10:44 AM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
If you get a bigger filter, you can have a few more fish. But double the filtration does not mean double the fish. And going from am internal to a canister filter means you can have more fish as an internal takes up space in the tank.

It is because of the biochemicals excreted and secreted by the fish. They are not removed by the filter - that only removes ammonia and nitrite. The more fish there are, the more of these chemicals that are in the tank. That's what you have to avoid and we do this by not overstocking.

Offline brian c

  • Super Fishy Member
  • *
  • Posts: 167
  • Likes: 0
  • Tropical Fish FTW!
Re: Is this enough filtration?
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2015, 11:17:15 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
thanks for putting up with all of my questions,no matter how small or stupid they are. :cheers: :cheers:
It took me a while to understand it, but I now understand that the filters have very little to do with how many fish you can stock,but it is water changes that can take out the bad stuff made by the fish.
I am a bit ashamed of this,but every now and then i do skip water changes for various reasons. But most of the water changes I skip are extra water changes meaning I have already done the amount water changes needed to keep the tank stable. I do a water change every night weather they need a water change or not. I spread my water changes out over my tanks during the week. The point of that was to say that I am going to need to have a stricter schedule on my water changes to make sure they get done,and I am going to do that.:) (I felt like I was giving a speech for that last part,lol)

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator Subscriber
  • Superstar Think Fishy Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9866
  • Likes: 403
Re: Is this enough filtration?
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2015, 02:24:48 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Twice over the years (the last time was 2002, it happened just after we had double glazing installed which is how I remember) I have woken up to find every fish in my tank dead. At the time I had no idea what had happened. But since then we got broadband and I have made a point of educating myself; I am now pretty sure what happened to kill my fish. I was overstocked, I did water changes maybe every 3 weeks, and I have low carbonate hardness.
There were too many fish in the tank producing too much waste of all types. I didn't do enough water changes which meant the waste products built up - and I didn't have any live plants back then to help. With low KH, the acidic waste products used up all the KH leaving nothing to stop the pH crashing, which it undoubtedly did but not having a test kit back then I can't prove the last bit. But I did eventually get a test kit and that's how I know that my pH crashes if I don't do enough water changes.

I have twice woken up to dead fish through bad tank management and I don't like to think of anyone else going through the same thing.

Offline brian c

  • Super Fishy Member
  • *
  • Posts: 167
  • Likes: 0
  • Tropical Fish FTW!
Re: Is this enough filtration?
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2015, 02:51:33 AM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
 :yikes: 2 Times that has happened?! Dang!! I bet you were so sad when all of your fishes were dead.:(

Tags:
 


Assess Tankmates In The Tropical Fish Community Creator


Topics that relate to "Is this enough filtration?"

  Subject - Started by Replies Last post
4 Replies
3307 Views
Last post December 11, 2012, 02:03:12 PM
by jowjow1976
2 Replies
2900 Views
Last post September 09, 2013, 05:41:51 PM
by mozzworley
5 Replies
6274 Views
Last post October 21, 2013, 08:21:21 AM
by Sue
3 Replies
6893 Views
Last post February 27, 2014, 08:41:08 AM
by Sue
13 Replies
5384 Views
Last post January 08, 2018, 08:48:20 PM
by MaypoleHugh
4 Replies
3398 Views
Last post November 18, 2019, 09:51:07 AM
by jaypeecee
10 Replies
1535 Views
Last post December 21, 2021, 02:53:06 PM
by Sue

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 
Legal | Contact Follow Think Fish on: