Fishless Cycling Problem

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Offline Matt

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Re: Fishless cycling problem
« Reply #80 on: February 21, 2017, 09:14:57 PM »
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I would say yes, possibly a little too much.  Their stomach is about the size of their eye...

Offline fcmf

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Re: Fishless cycling problem
« Reply #81 on: February 21, 2017, 09:19:37 PM »
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Those Hikari micro pellets are absolutely tiny, though - I'd say at least 8. Tomorrow, I'll measure out how much I give my 11 fish and then let you know.

Update:

I've taken a pic of my fishes' breakfast - broken pieces of Tetramin flakes plus Hikari micro pellets - to give you an idea of amount. NB. this feeds 11 fish, so you'd be aiming for 1/3 of this amount. I give them the same amount twice a day (although substituting the Hikari micro pellets with Hikari micro wafers in the evening). About twice a week, they get 2 chopped peas between them all as well.

If you find that fish food remains on the water surface several minutes after feeding, then best to net this out. You may find fungused micro pellets on the bottom of the tank during syphoning - this may indicate over-feeding although I tend to find that pellets inevitably fall before the fish notice them or behind their backs while they're feeding on other pieces.

I'd err on the side of under-feeding while undertaking the fish-in cycle - although hopefully my and Littlefish's mature media will help your filter be cycled very soon.

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Fishless cycling problem
« Reply #82 on: February 22, 2017, 02:25:31 PM »
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Done all my tests today

Ammonia .25ppm
Nitrites 0 (could be because I am using TSS)
Nitrates 2.5ppm
KH 3 degrees
PH 7.4

So everything seems to be running smoothly. Received some mature media today so have put it between the sponges in my filter so that should all help.

Offline MarquisMirage

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Re: Fishless cycling problem
« Reply #83 on: February 22, 2017, 04:35:11 PM »
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The best place to place mature media is at the end of the filter that water is drawn through i.e. if the filter pulls in water from the bottom and pushes out the top place it in the bottom.  That way the mature media is pulled through the rest of the media.

Offline Sue

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Re: Fishless cycling problem
« Reply #84 on: February 22, 2017, 04:39:11 PM »
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In barneyadi's case, he has a Juwel Rio so the water flows from top to bottom. In this style filter, the mature media should be placed as near the top as possible -with the Rio's filter on top of the green sponge is the best place whether the black sponge is used or not.

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Fishless cycling problem
« Reply #85 on: February 22, 2017, 05:29:48 PM »
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Ah ok, will move it from bottom to on top of green sponge and under white one.

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Fishless cycling problem
« Reply #86 on: February 23, 2017, 10:40:27 AM »
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Hi all

Got the rest of the mature media from you great people. So just to confirm I have the white at the top, then mature media, green sponge, coarse blue sponge, cirax and then 2 fine blue sponges. Does that sound right?

With all this extra media,  should I add in more fish, or just carry on with the 4 I have till ammonia and nitrite goes to zero?

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Fishless cycling problem
« Reply #87 on: February 23, 2017, 01:44:08 PM »
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Mature media as close to the inflow of the water as possible, so it sounds as if you've put it in the best place for your filter.
As for adding more fish, I'm really not sure. The more experienced keepers would give the best advice.
The amount of media I sent was half the media that I had in one of my temperate tanks, so would have been used to dealing with the waste from around twice as many fish as you have in your tank.
Plus the other mature media, you probably have the bacterial capacity to increase you numbers.
I'm not known for my patience when it comes to acquiring more fish, and I don't want to encourage any bad habits in others.  ;D

Offline Sue

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Re: Fishless cycling problem
« Reply #88 on: February 23, 2017, 01:57:36 PM »
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You can add more fish when the readings for both ammonia and nitrite have been zero for a week.

But not many more fish. You will have only enough bacteria for 4 harlequins, so in theory you can add 1.3333 more fish the same size as the harlequins. As adding a third of a fish is not possible, I would get 2 more harlequins. Then test for ammonia and nitrite every day, doing a water change if either of them show up. When you've had zero readings for another week, then you can get more fish, equal to 2 harlequins.

I know you've got mature media in there so it might well be safe to add more fish than this, but you can't be certain just how many bacteria you have so take it slow.

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Fishless cycling problem
« Reply #89 on: February 23, 2017, 04:36:22 PM »
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My thinking was due to the mature media I didn't want to waste it as having only a few fish but makes sense not to rush things. My plan was to get 2 and then another 2 harlequins over the timescale you suggest and then move on to other fish. Main question would be which ones next. In the frame are Panda Corys, Marble Hatchetfish and Neon Tetras. Would you add them in this order?

Offline Sue

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Re: Fishless cycling problem
« Reply #90 on: February 23, 2017, 04:47:11 PM »
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I know that neon tetras do not do well in new tanks, they are better added after the tank has been running a while. The reason is that we need to grow more than just ammonia and nitrite eaters. Those are important because lack of them can harm, if not kill, the fish. But some fish seem to need the presence of other micro-organisms too, and neons fall into this group.
Some species of cory also fall into this group but I don't know if pandas are one of those cories. Other members who have pandas will be able to advise about them better. I've never kept them.

I've also never kept hatchet fish but I have never read anything that suggests they do badly in new tank.

I suggest you get the hatchet fish next, then the cories if other members say they would be OK and leave the neons till last.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Fishless cycling problem
« Reply #91 on: February 23, 2017, 05:32:38 PM »
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I have silver hatchet fish in my South American tank. I performed a fishless cycle on the planted tank and added the hatchets, penguin tetra and glass blood fin tetra all at the same time. Also, as I'd used mature media from several tanks, it only took a couple of weeks to cycle, so not what you could call a mature tank by any stretch of the imagination. All inhabitants of that tank have done well.
I have panda cory in my betta tank. That tank was slightly more mature, but had only been running for a few months before I decided to get some companions for the betta. I lost one panda a while back, but apart from that they have been fine in that planted tank too.
I don't have any experience of neons, but the hatchets and pandas I've got seem to be quite hardy, so that agrees with what Sue is saying about order of additions.  :)

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Fishless cycling problem
« Reply #92 on: February 23, 2017, 07:18:11 PM »
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Brought myself a colorinator device. Just checked and I have 0.59ppm ammonia and 0.54 nitrites. Little concerned with ammonia levels but will test tomorrow and see how things are going.

Offline Andy The Minion

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Re: Fishless cycling problem
« Reply #93 on: February 23, 2017, 08:09:30 PM »
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You can add more fish when the readings for both ammonia and nitrite have been zero for a week.

But not many more fish. You will have only enough bacteria for 4 harlequins, so in theory you can add 1.3333 more fish the same size as the harlequins

@Sue 0.3333 That's sound worryingly like a fish finger

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Fishless cycling problem
« Reply #94 on: February 24, 2017, 04:20:22 PM »
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Did tests today and results as follows

Ammonia 0.52 ppm, down from 0.59ppm last night
Nitrite 0.05ppm
Nitrate 4.50ppm

So things seem to be going ok, fingers crossed.

Offline Andy The Minion

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Re: Fishless cycling problem
« Reply #95 on: February 24, 2017, 05:32:10 PM »
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Yep looking good @barneyadi
From your readings I calculate your Ammonia and Nitrate should have ended up as about 1ppm Nitrate so I guess you had a little bit of Nitrate in the water already... but the bacteria must be starting to develop :)
Good news on a tank cycle, I like that!

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Fishless cycling problem
« Reply #96 on: February 24, 2017, 06:11:42 PM »
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Yes I think my tap water has about 2.5ppm nitrate in it.

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Fishless cycling problem
« Reply #97 on: February 25, 2017, 12:18:17 PM »
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Help!!!

Checked readings now, and they are as follows

Ammonia 1.28
Nitrite 0.05
Nitrate 12.64

I know ammonia is high, should I use some Seachem Prime to lower it? Nitrates have jumped, is this good news? My thinking is ammonia is being converted to Nitrates which means tank is cycling but just want to make sure.


Offline Matt

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Re: Fishless cycling problem
« Reply #98 on: February 25, 2017, 01:06:17 PM »
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I would do a fairly large water change to bring the ammonia down and use the prime in your replacement water.  These levels of ammonia will be dangerous for the fish.  You are right though that your cycle is progressing.  :)

Offline barneyadi

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Re: Fishless cycling problem
« Reply #99 on: February 25, 2017, 01:09:13 PM »
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Ok here is the problem. I used Tetra Safe Start at beginning of cycle and according to them you shouldn't water change for 14 days as would affect the TSS. Wouldn't just adding Prime help reduce the ammonia? This is a reply from Tetra to a forum member on another site, hence my reason for asking.

You can test the water any time, but really, you should probably wait at
least 48 hours. We expect TSS to start slowly seeding the tank, and
making a difference in about that time. You have to have some ammonia
occur in the tank to provide the cycle needed, so it will usually create
levels or reduce levels to around 1.0-1.5 ppm, and they should stay
there for a week to 14 days, and then come down. Sorry, these levels
would be for both ammonia and nitrite. These are considered stress, but
not toxic, levels, and should not cause any long term damage to the
fish.

We recommend waiting two weeks before a water change. Of course, if for
some reason, the levels go up to a high level again, we would recommend
a change at that point, and another dose. Usually, the hobbyist has
done something wrong the first time, in such cases.

 


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