Fishless Cycling Problem

Well the rasbora was shooting up to the top of the tank this afternoon and i cant find him now. The barbs have been very shy  so not sure if there behaviour was strange.
I searched for illnesses for both barbs and Rasbora's and gill flukes were mentioned which i understand is a parasite hence my thinking about Paraguard.

Sorry to read about further problems.

A lot of fish have been added lately, so it's difficult to isolate the problem.

I would advise having a quarantine/hospital tank (a cheap plastic one such as the 21-litre ones sold by The Range would be fine) plus a spare heater and filter - you never know when you might need it (eg a fish falls ill and requires isolated and treated, or a heater/filter breaks down). It's always best to isolate new fish in a quarantine tank for 2+ weeks minimum - personally, I'd do so for 4 weeks to err on the side of caution, on the basis of incidents I've read about on here.

If there are oddly behaving fish in the tank at the moment, they may need isolated for treatment, and Seachem Paraguard seems as good a choice as any. If there aren't oddly behaving fish, then I'd advise either waiting to see how the situation progresses (but, whatever you do, don't buy any more fish until the tank has settled down eg there have been no fatalities for a couple of months) or start treating that whole tank with something like Seachem Paraguard if there are signs something is awry.

The bacteria get into the quarantine tank by cycling. But what most people do is use some media from the main tank. If you want to use the QT immediately, chop up one of the Rio's sponges to make it fit. Put the media from the new filter into the space left and hopefully because you have removed some media, you'll need to grow a few more bacteria and they'll grow in the media from the small filter.

You will need to monitor ammonia and nitrite in the QT because even if you do steal some media from the Rio, there won't be much of it and it may not hold many bacteria.

Since you hope to be adding more fish once the problems are sorted it would make sense to keep the QT running by adding ammonia to it when it has no fish in. That would be easier than moving media frequently. Then once you have all your fish keep the media in the Rio's filter in case you need to set it up quickly for a sick fish. Since you don't need the carbon sponge in the Rio, that space where that is supposed to go makes the perfect place for the QT's media.


However, if fish in the QT die, it is advisable to throw the media away rather than put it inthe the Rio and risk infecting the fish in there.



One question - what media comes with the small tank? A lot of small filters have just carbon containing cartridges which are no use if you want to add medicine as the carbon will just remove it.

That would be fine. The black sponges could just be plain sponge coloured black but it is not worth the risk if you want to add medicine to the QT.

I still have the sponges i got sent, could i use them in the quarantine tank for a kick start?

Also contacted Seachem about a couple of their products, Cupramine and Paraguard, and thought it might help someone.

Hello David,
Thank you for your email. Cupramine is our copper-based medication, and is very effective against external parasites like ich and velvet. ParaGuard is not copper-based and is effective against external parasites, bacterias, and fungal infections. Cupramine is the stronger of the two medications, while ParaGuard is much gentler and more broad-range. Cupramine is also much more economical - it required only two doses for a 14-day treatment, while ParaGuard must be dosed in much higher volumes every day for the entire treatment period.
Of these two medications, my favorite for quarantine systems is ParaGuard. It minimizes the chance of fish death from medication stress while treating all the major infections that incoming fish tend to carry.
Thank you,
Seachem Support
10256

Osmotic shock occurs when a fish is moved from water of one hardness or pH to water with a different hardness or pH. Is the shop where you got the fish near enough to you to have the same water supply? If I remember correctly, you have very soft water so the shop's tank water would have to be hard for osmotic shock to affect the fish. If they are in the same town, their water supply should be the same as yours.



Refresh my memory, please. Is your water soft because that's what the water company supplies or is it soft because your house uses a water softener?

Well lost another Rasbora overnight so down to 4, although the other do seem more active today.

Going to set up quarantine tank but wondering if i could cut squares off my big tank sponges to speed up or even instantly cycle at tank? As it is only a 17l tank would dosing with 1ppm ammonia until i get fish work ok?

Just had a nasty thought. Early last week i added in some plastic Lillie's from a aquarium shop on eBay. I rinsed them thoroughly in dechlorinated water, but could they have caused my problem?

Have attached a picture of my latest casualty. If anyone sees anything please let me know. Have visited my LFS this morning and he couldn't see anything. We talked and he was worried about my ph being 7.6. Is there any way of dropping my ph? Have read something about almond leaves, could that help? He also said the lillies might be the problem, as they are designed for ponds and maybe in a small tank colour or something might have got into tank.

I have pH 7.5-ish and the same hardness as you and I don't have problems. Too many fish shops seem to think that unless the pH is 7.0 - the pH of pure water - there is something wrong. I don't think there's anything wrong with your pH, unless forsome reason the shop has much lower pH than you or much lower hardness in which case the change from shop water to your tank water could cause problems.
Harlequins are OK up to hardness 215 ppm/12 german deg and pH 7.5.
Cherry barbs are OK up to hardness 357 ppm/ 20 german deg and pH 8.0

Hardness is more important than pH and your hardness is well within the range for the two species you have bought.



As for why the fish are dying, I'm afraid I'm at a loss there. All I can think of is that it is somehow tied in with your odd cycling results.

Since you want to treat all the fish, leave them in the main tank. You only need to use a quarantine/hospital tank if one or two fish are sick and you want to treat just them; and when buying new fish so that you can be sure they are disease free before putting them in a tank that already has fish.

Taking a bit of sponge from the Rio will seed the QT's filter but there may not be enough bacteria in that bit for the fish you want to put in there. For example, the bacteria needed for the fish in the Rio now are in all the filter media in the Rio. If you take a small bit and put all the fish in the QT there won't be nearly enough bacteria for them.

I would treat the fish in the Rio and at the same time transfer some media to the QT and add ammonia.
I would use 3 ppm ammonia because 2 or 3 fish in 17 litres is max stocking; those 2 or 3 fish could well make 3 ppm ammonia per day in a tank that size.





(ppm is not a measure of a specific amount of ammonia, it is a measure of the ammonia compared to the amount of water. 1 ppm means 1 g ammonia in a million g water. 1 million g water is 1000 litres. So 1 ppm is:
1 g in 1000 litres
0.1 g in 100 litres
0.01 g in 10 litres

Rounding tank sizes for easier maths, if the fish in the Rio made 0.1 g ammonia per day = 1 ppm in 100 litres, that same 0.1 g would be 10 ppm in a 10 litre tank.)

As we have concern about the fish water in the main tank, and because you are not looking to use the quarantine tank straight away, no need to risk using water from the main tank.