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Fishless Cycling Help

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Offline MDW

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Fishless cycling help
« on: September 19, 2019, 08:29:59 PM »
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Hi all. We are after a little advise with regards to our first attemp at fishless cycling....
We are on day 18/19 and have some changes to our water test results.....
Before day 18 we tested every 3rd day with no change. We had consistently tested 3ppm ammonia and 0 nitrite....
We have followed Sue's method. Yesterday we got a result of what I think is 1.0ppm ammonia and 2ppm or 5ppm nitrite. Hard to tell the nitrite as the colour chart for 2 and 5 look the same. (pictures are not perfect, the colour match of our test vials are better to the eye) Anyway we tested on day 19 and got the same result as day 18. The question is, Should we hold off adding more ammonia untill we drop to a more definite 0.75ppm ammonia test result or should we chance it and add another 3ml (as day 0) ammonia now?
P.S I think we should test daily to catch the 0.75 ppm ammonia exactly.
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Offline Hampalong

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Re: Fishless cycling help
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2019, 10:23:57 AM »
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You don’t need to stick to a specific amount of ammonia. As long as there’s some, the cycle is doing ok. You could add more now or wait till it goes to zero.

3 questions... how much ammonia have you added in total? And have you tested for nitrates yet?
Have you done a water change yet?
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Offline MDW

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Re: Fishless cycling help
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2019, 11:17:52 AM »
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Hi, thanks for replying Hampalong...
Tank size is 110 L.
We have only added 3ml ammonia on day 0. This gave us the 3ppm ammonia required as per Sue's method.
We have not tested for nitrate and have not changed the water.
I only asked the question as Sue's method states to get down to 0.75 ppm ammonia before moving onto the next step...
As you can see, we are very close to 0.75 ppm ammonia. I do not know if 0.75 ppm ammonia is a must reach figure or if their about will do....
I fully understand Sue's method and know that I need to add 3ml of ammonia to bring us back to the start amount of 3ppm ammonia and test every two days once the above criteria is met...
My question is more to do with how critical the ammonia level needs to drop to as apposed to understanding Sue's article.
I hope that clears up what I'm trying to achieve....
Thanks again for the reply and sorry if I come across as being a pain. I just want to get this right and not make any school boy errors.  :)
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Offline Sue

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Re: Fishless cycling help
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2019, 12:41:04 PM »
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There is a danger if you add too much ammonia. At a nitrite level of about 15 ppm, the cycle stalls. But our test kits only measure up to 5 ppm, and above that the colour stays at the 5 ppm colour so we have no idea how high nitrite actually is. Since each 1 ppm ammonia is turned into 2.7 ppm nitrite, nitrite can build up quickly.
The chap who invented the method I wrote up on here devised this method as a way of preventing nitrite ever reaching stall point.

I think I would add 2 ppm ammonia rather than 3, then proceed from step 7. You can increase the dose to 3 ppm again when you get to step 10.
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Offline MDW

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Re: Fishless cycling help
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2019, 02:39:13 PM »
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Thanks Sue. Before I noticed your reply I had already tested the water....
Results:
Ammonia 0.25 ppm
Nitrite 2-5 ppm
Nitrate 20 ppm

The nitrate may well be higher as this was a darker orange than the 20 ppm key marker.

On these results, not knowing you had replied Sue, I decided to move on. I have added 3ml of ammonia, left this to mix into the water for over 30 mins. I have retested the ammonia. This is now at 3 ppm. All looking good I hope.

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Offline Sue

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Re: Fishless cycling help
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2019, 04:33:11 PM »
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The 3 ppm ammonia is fine as the new reading was less than 0.75.

This method is not an absolute, but going too far off does run the risk of making too much nitrite.


Re nitrate, the nitrate test works by turning nitrate into nitrite then measuring that. Since there is a lot of nitrite already in the water, that will also be included in the nitrate test so the level will be higher than it really is for nitrate.
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Offline MDW

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Re: Fishless cycling help
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2019, 05:53:48 PM »
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Hi all! And thanks Sue for the above reply.
This is where we are at....
Day 23.. added 3ml of ammonia to bring us to an ammonia reading of 3 ppm
Day 24... (Stage eight) No action.
Day 25... Tested ammonia.
I think the result was 0.25 ppm My wife thinks it was 0 ppm
Day 26... No action
Day 27....(Today) Tested ammonia again. I think 0.25 ppm. My wife thinks 0 ppm
In the picture I took of the test result it does look more yellow. To the eye I can see a green tint.
My question is.....
If we go ahead and add 1ml ammonia today could this mess things up? Should we be more cautious and hold off untill we are more sure of the result?
Thanks for reading
Regards
Mel
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Offline Sue

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Re: Fishless cycling help
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2019, 07:15:49 PM »
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What is the nitrite reading? If it over 1.0 ppm add a third of the amount of ammonia that you added for 3 ppm.

The ammonia tester is a bit odd. Some people never see the the yellow of zero even with tanks that have been running trouble free for years. The light used can also affect it. It is well known that fluorescent light - including compact fluorescent energy saving bulbs - can make the water look greener than it really is though it doesn't affect the chart colour.
I know it's a bit tricky at the moment but good daylight is the best light (today it has been too dim with all the rain we've had here to attempt this!). If you still have any old fashioned incandescent light bulbs around the house, they don't distort the colour either. I'll have to experiment to see what halogen and LED bulbs do.
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Offline MDW

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Re: Fishless cycling help
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2019, 07:41:48 PM »
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Hi Sue, thanks for the speedy reply.
Our nitrite is still high, reading at 5 ppm (or above)
I agree with you as to regards the light, the colour in the vial changes depending on the angle you view it from.
I will go ahead and add 1ml of ammonia (1 ppm)  and continue testing every 2nd day as per stage nine.
Thanks again!!
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Offline jaypeecee

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Re: Fishless cycling help
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2019, 07:13:47 PM »
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Quote from: Sue on September 24, 2019, 07:15:49 PM
I know it's a bit tricky at the moment but good daylight is the best light (today it has been too dim with all the rain we've had here to attempt this!). If you still have any old fashioned incandescent light bulbs around the house, they don't distort the colour either. I'll have to experiment to see what halogen and LED bulbs do.

Daylight is the best option as Sue says. Incandescent bulbs emit light mostly at the red end of the spectrum so will give a 'warm' lighting effect. The spectrum of LED lighting varies according to the actual mix of LEDs used. Pretty much any spectrum can be created.

JPC
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Offline MDW

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Re: Fishless cycling help
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2019, 09:19:42 PM »
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Hi all.
Here is where we are at.....
Stage 10 yesterday,
Added 3ml of ammonia.
I had a hunch things were looking up!
So; I ordered some plants last night  :)
Stage 11. Tested today.... Ammonia 0
& Nitrite 0
After a long 41 days.....
THE CYCLE IS FINISHED!!!!!  :)
The plants should be here Wednesday or Thursday. So, I'm holding off buying fish so I can plant up and do stage 14 all at the same time. I know I need to add 1ml of ammonia every 2 - 3 days and do a full water change just before I put the fish in.
My question is.... Should I add 1 ml of ammonia tonight? Or hold off? and hope the plants arrive tomorrow. Finally if no ammonia is added tonight, will all be ok with no ammonia and plant and stock with fish Thursday? Thanks for reading. 
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Offline Sue

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Re: Fishless cycling help
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2019, 09:28:00 AM »
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Plant the plants as soon as you have them. If you intend getting fish tomorrow (Thursday), don't add any more ammonia. Just do the big water change then plant the plants when they arrive.

It used to be thought that the bacteria died within 24 hours if they weren't fed. We now know they can last for months without being fed; after a week or two they become dormant, but don't die. From Monday (the last time you added ammonia) to Thursday without adding ammonia is not a problem.



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Offline MDW

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Re: Fishless cycling help
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2019, 02:53:00 PM »
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Thanks Sue....
Some of the plants arrived today. Planted these and I have done the big water change.
Thanks So much for all the advise and help with this cycle. Very much appreciated.
Thank you!!!
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