Author Topic: FISHLESS CYCLING Discussion Thread (Read 226461 times) 83 replies

chriswhy1967 · « **Reply #40 on:** September 30, 2015, 08:22:28 PM »

Will have a look at the weekend, I read that it could take longer being a large tank etc so was not to worried yet.

Sue · « **Reply #41 on:** October 01, 2015, 01:36:50 PM »

It doesn't take that much longer. Yes you do have to grow more bacteria because a bigger tank has more fish which make more ammonia. The bacteria can double in number in under a day, the long part is getting them started. If you think about the maths, if one bacterium survives the water company's attempts to kill them on day 1 you have 1 bacterium. On day 2 you have 2. Day 3 = 4. Day 4 = 8. Day 5 = 16. By day 10 you have 512. By day 20 you have 524288. It only takes 1 day extra to jump from a 50 litre tank's worth to a 100 litre tank's worth of bacteria.

I do realise that the real world won't work quite like that. Biological entities never follow a nice straight line - or even a nice smooth exponential curve

chriswhy1967 · « **Reply #42 on:** October 05, 2015, 01:18:29 PM »

Ok just need to check, boiled water should be zero ammonia ?

If so I tested a sample along with a tank sample and both are same dark yellow which I was reading as 0.5 / 1 ppm so I do have no ammonia when I thought I had none.
now I did use a Tetra safe start type product to begin with when I First started my tank,
It is planted and to date I have not had any positive Nitrite readings , they are always blue, used another test kit to check same results.
I did a full water change checked readings again, zero ammonia and Nitrite, nitrate either zero or very low.
Stuck 20 Cardinal tetras in for now and will check levels twice daily, they seem happy even thou the first day they all disappeared for the first six hours in the plants before starting to venture out and play , now they are zipping around the tank

chriswhy1967 · « **Reply #43 on:** October 05, 2015, 01:23:01 PM »

Plus any ammonia in my tank would be ammonium with my lower PH level 6.8'if the shade of pale green is correct if not it is lower. This is after the water change I cycled with the ph at 7.8

Sue · « **Reply #44 on:** October 05, 2015, 01:34:25 PM »

UK legislation allows up to 0.5ppm ammonia in tap water. But I think that it normally occurs in regions where chloramine is used as the disinfectant rather than chlorine. Do you know which your water company uses? It could be worth contacting them to find out.

But having said that, the API ammonia tester is quite tricky to read at very low levels, if that is the one you use. A lot of people always see the 0.25 colour even with a tank that has been running trouble free for years.
If you are using the API tester, in what lighting conditions are you reading it? Daylight or light bulb? And if under a light bulb, what kind, cfl, halogen or led?

And yes, at pH 6.8 the total ammonia as shown by the tester would have to be quite high for the toxic part to be at dangerous levels. A quick play with an ammonia calculator shows that at pH 6.8 and temp 25⁰C, the total ammonia can go as high as 5.5 before the toxic bit reached 0.02 (the dangerous level)

Sue · « **Reply #45 on:** February 29, 2016, 11:31:43 AM »

I have just completed my first fishless cycle using this method. I have a 26 litre tank containing 1 male betta and 1 bee nerite snail. It had an internal filter which the betta used to sleep on, but it was forever falling off the glass - was that the betta's fault? I have replaced it with a sponge filter driven by an air pump. Because the two filters are totally incompatible I had to cycle the sponge filter in the quarantine tank before I could use it.

Tank size - 24 litres
Filter - Aqua One filter air 30; pump - JBL pro silent a50
Water temp 29^oC

I have low KH so I added one level 5ml spoonful of bicarbonate of soda to increase the KH of the water.

My bottle of ammonia is very old and a lot has evaporated; the ammonia % is now a lot less than when I bought it. I will not give the volume of ammonia used, just the ppm.

Day 1
Added enough ammonia to give a reading between 2.0 and 4.0ppm

Tested every third day, readings ammonia between 2 and 4, nitrite zero

Day 28
Ammonia 0.5, nitrite over 5
Added ammonia to give a reading between 2 and 4

Tested every second day

Day 30
Ammonia zero, nitrite over 5

Day 32
Ammonia zero, nitrite over 5
Second zero ammonia so added 1ppm ammonia

Day 34
Ammonia zero, nitrite over 5

Day 36
Ammonia zero, nitrite over 5
Second zero ammonia so added 1ppm ammonia

Day 38
Ammonia zero, nitrite over 5

Day 40
Ammonia zero, nitrite over 5
Second zero ammonia so added 1ppm ammonia

Day 42
Ammonia zero, nitrite zero. Nitrite checked twice to make sure.
Added ammonia to between 2 and 4ppm

Day 43
Ammonia 0.25, nitrite 1.0

Day 44
Ammonia zero, nitrite zero
Added 3ppm ammonia
Electricity off all afternoon, after adding the ammonia

Day 45
Ammonia zero, nitrite 2.0

Day 46
Ammonia zero, nitrite zero
Added ammonia to between 2 and 4

Day 47
Ammonia zero, nitrite between 0.5 and 1.0
Added ammonia to between 2 and 4

Day 48
Ammonia zero, nitrite zero.
Moved sponge filter into betta's tank.

Did the power cut on day 44 affect the nitrite eaters? I was expecting the nitrite on day 45 to be a lot lower.

Knight · « **Reply #46 on:** March 01, 2016, 11:01:48 PM »

Congratulations Sue!! See you did beat me after all lol

Cornish Bayguy · « **Reply #47 on:** March 06, 2016, 04:56:26 PM »

Hi guys. I have been cycling for a week and did a water test yesterday. All I added at the start was bio boost which is what I was told to add and I have been adding liquid CO2 every day and yesterday I added liquid plant food. But my tests yesterday showed Ph7,nitrite 0 , ammonia 0 and nitrate 0. I think I have not added something. I am doing a fish less cycle. The guys at the shop said I did not need to add ammonia when I asked them at the beginning.

Sue · « **Reply #48 on:** March 06, 2016, 05:13:50 PM »

Hi

On the whole shops either don't believe in fishless cycling or they don't understand it. They don't seem to understand that unless you add ammonia, either from a bottle or made by fish, the bacteria we want in the tank won't have any food to enable them to multiply. Your ammonia reading was zero because you haven't added any, and your nitrite was zero because there was no ammonia to make it from.

The safest thing to do (safest for fish, that is) is to add some ammonia. If the bioboost does anything it will speed up the cycle; it may speed up the whole thing or it may speed up growing the ammonia eaters but not the nitrite eaters as most of them contain the wrong species of nitrite eating bacteria.
Ammonia in real shops is getting hard to come by. I got my bottle of Jeyes Kleen Off Household Ammonia from my local DIY shop. Otherwise look at Ebay or Amazon.

The last week, plus a few more days waiting for the ammonia to arrive, won't be wasted. You are getting your plants off to a good start, and having lots of well growing plants also shortens the cycle as they use ammonia as food - you don't need to grow as many bacteria with plants to help.
Once you have a bottle of ammonia, if it says it is 9.5% add 0.32 ml ammonia for every 10 litres of tank water. If it doesn't say, add 2ml then test after half an hour. If necessary add more to get the reading to 3ppm. Make a note of the total amount of ammonia you add, then follow the instructions in the first post in this thread.
You might find a syringe helpful to measure awkward amounts.

Littlefish · « **Reply #49 on:** March 06, 2016, 06:44:59 PM »

Hi Cornish Bayguy

Welcome to the forum, best of luck with getting hold of the ammonia and doing your fishless cycle.

Littlefish · « **Reply #50 on:** April 10, 2016, 10:24:00 PM »

I have a confession to make.........I have shared a link to this fishless cycle method with people on the caudate forum that I joined when I got my axolotls. I hope that you don't mind.
As it happens, it's not just LFS that give poor advice or sell pets on the same day as a tank. Quite a few of the axolotl keepers have also fallen foul of this. In fact, the place in Essex where I bought my first 3 told me just to let the water stand for a few days then it would be fine. God bless my already cycled tanks, as well as those that were almost complete.
Quite a few axolotl keepers also weren't aware of the nitrogen cycle.
All of those that I have sent links to have all said that this is a very good method, written well, easy to understand, and gave much more detail than any other information they had managed to find.
So, on behalf of the global axolotl keepers, and their axolotls, I'd just like to thank Sue for writing and posting this method here.

If anyone is unhappy about me sharing this information on another forum, then I apologise, or deny all responsibility, whichever one will work.

Extreme_One · « **Reply #51 on:** April 10, 2016, 10:39:26 PM »

Quote from: Littlefish on April 10, 2016, 10:24:00 PM

I have a confession to make.........I have shared a link to this fishless cycle method with people on the caudate forum that I joined when I got my axolotls. I hope that you don't mind.

Sharing a link is the correct thing to do.

If you had simply copied and pasted the guide that would have been bad form.

I tend to copy and paste a short relevant section, to illustrate a point I'm trying to make, and then include the link to the whole guide.

Sue · « **Reply #52 on:** April 11, 2016, 09:57:26 AM »

The more people know about cycling methods the better for the fish - and axolotls.

Linking is fine; as Extreme says, it's copying without acknowledging the source that is bad form.

Littlefish · « **Reply #53 on:** April 11, 2016, 10:49:25 AM »

Sharing the link is the only way to reference the information correctly and in context. It is also useful for people to see the rest of the thread, as it may answer further questions. It also makes them aware of the site, articles and the rest of the forum, because you never know which piece of information is going to be critical to those with aquatic pets.
I just wanted Sue to be aware of the positive feedback I'd had about the fishless cycling sticky and also know how helpful it has been to others.

Sue · « **Reply #54 on:** April 11, 2016, 10:55:51 AM »

I do appreciate the feedback

I have to admit that it never occurred to me that axolotl keepers would face the same problems with shops as fish keepers. When I think about it, it's obvious they would

FoundNemo · « **Reply #55 on:** June 13, 2017, 05:16:44 PM »

Ok I'm hoping I'm not being daft here.

I've just started my fishless cycle. I've purchased the api freshwater master test kit as well as Kleen off household ammonia. I added 1.10ml of the ammonia to the 54l of water in my tank, waited 30mins and have added the ammonia drops as per the api test kit. Now depending on how I hold up the test vial to the api chart I see different shades of green. if I hold the vial right up against the chart it's a dark green but if I hold it slightly away from the chart it's a lighter green. 1 tells me it's sitting between 2 & 4 ppm while the other tells me it's between 1 & 2 ppm.

I'm not sure if i need to add more anmonia or if I'm fine with the 1.10ml dose

Sue · « **Reply #56 on:** June 13, 2017, 05:26:16 PM »

The vial should be held against the chart. It will appear paler if it is held away from the chart.

I know it is not always possible, but it is the shade of green rather than the depth of colour. The ammonia tester starts at yellow for zero then goes yellowy green to green to bluish green. You need to try and see how yellowy or how bluey the green is. I do know that is virtually impossible to do

If it is any help, the calculator on the site I "pinched" the method from says that 54 litres will need 1.71 ml of 9.5% ammonia to get a reading of 3 ppm. Did you measure the amount of water you put in the tank for that 54 litres?

Pinched = rewrote it in my own words, not copy it

FoundNemo · « **Reply #57 on:** June 13, 2017, 05:41:53 PM »

Ok thanks sue.

I don't see yellow or blue green just green lol. It doesnt make it easy. I can see different shades of green depending on how I hold the vial against the chart.

The 54 litres is the amount of water I measured when I filled the tank. The bottle of ammonia doesn't tell me the ammonia % Do you think I should just add the extra 0.6ml? I've had a quick look on jeyes.com but couldn't find any info on the %

Thanks again

Sue · « **Reply #58 on:** June 13, 2017, 06:40:16 PM »

When I bought my first bottle of Kleen Off ammonia several years ago, I emailed them to ask both the % and whether it contained anything else. Their reply was
"Our Kleenoff Ammonia is 9.5% Ammonia & the rest is water."
I kept the email for future reference

I think I'd split the difference and add another 0.3 ml, then see what the reading is. If it still shows less than 4 ppm, use 1.4ml as the 3 ppm dose for future doses. If it is definitely 4, then use your initial 1.1 ml dose as 3 ppm. The extra 1 ppm right at the beginning won't do any harm.

FoundNemo · « **Reply #59 on:** June 13, 2017, 07:24:44 PM »

Yeah I found out that it was 9.5% from a google search. You'd think that they would have the % on the bottle?? The brand isn't even listed on jeyes.com But that would be too easy for us lol So I went ahead and added the additional 0.6ml dose

I thought if the worst comes to the worst I could flush the tank and start the cycle over with fresh water

I can now see that it's reading between 2 & 4ppm more clearly. I also see what you mean now by the blueish green colour. My 1st vial is a yellowy green when I sit the 2 next to each other. I'm already not liking apis colour scheme. But it's probably just because I'm not used to seeing the colour variations.

Thanks again for your help sue

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FISHLESS CYCLING Discussion Thread

FISHLESS CYCLING Discussion Thread

Author Topic: FISHLESS CYCLING Discussion Thread (Read 226461 times) 83 replies

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