Fishless Cycling And Bacterial Bloom - I Am Confused (not Unusual)

Hello All,

I thought I had got to grips with this fishless cycling, after the trials of my 125L, and all those dozens of tests. However, as you may have seen elsewhere on here, my shrimpery is underway:

Filter: Moray 320. This model has three main compartments, for sponge (top), carbon canister (middle), and ceramic canister (bottom, nearest the inlet). At the back of each compartment, there is a separate space with a water inlet/outlet to which I have added some crushed coral for my low KH/GH.. Initially I replaced the carbon with a piece of mature sponge from my 125L. The flow rate was almost undetectable, so I removed the sponge and placed it in the tank, near to the filter inlet. Flow is now OK through the (optional) spraybar. I intend to add another ceramic canister in the empty compartment.

Other Mature Media: I have added a Java coconut, a large piece of bogwood, and one piece of Bacopa (currently floating) from my 125L.

Water: About 60% from my 125L - NH3 0, NO2 0, NO3 20-40, the remainder is conditioned tapwater -NH3 0, NO2 0, NO3 5-10. The water is currently very cloudy, which I know is not unusual.

My estimated water volume is about 32L,  allowing for the filter, gravel etc., so I added 1ml of Jeyes Kleenoff for 3ppm (I may have some otos or pygmy cories in there as well). I hour later I had a nice green NH3 test.
Today, my first "3 day test", I found NH3 0.25, NO2 0, NO3 0. I repeated the tests just to be sure. I also did a 1/5th nitrite test - still zero.

To me, none of this seems logical. The low NH3 says that nitrite has been produced, but it isn't there. I added NO3 with the tank & tap water.....where is it? Should I add another 3ppm of NH3?

                                       Skittler
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It does seem a bit odd with all the nitrate that went into the tank and I don't think you have enough plants to get rid of it. Does 'java coconut' mean a half coconut shell covered with java fern/moss? Even if that is what you mean, that plus a bit of bacopa shouldn't get rid of all that nitrate that quickly. Though I'd better ask, you do shake whichever bottle it is of the nitrate test that needs shaking?

As far as ammonia and nitrite are concerned, you may well have added enough bacteria to deal with them in 3 days. I would add another 3ppm just to check everything, and test after 24 hours to see what the levels are then.



You'd posted your extra bit by the time I tried to post! Bacterial blooms don't do anything to ammonia, nitrite or nitrate directly. They do remove oxygen from the water which could potentially deprive the bacteria in the old media and on the surface of the things from the old tank. But if that was happening, they wouldn't be removing the ammonia or nitrite. The main way the bloom bacteria interfere with cycling is by dying when all their food is gone and decomposing to make ammonia. I would ignore the bloom and keep on with the cycle.

Even if that is what you mean, that plus a bit of bacopa shouldn't get rid of all that nitrate that quickly.

Ooops, bit of a typo in my last post. I have changed it to what it should have been, the bits I've added are in red in the quote above. It does change the meaning of what I wrote quite a bit 


The snails sitting above the water line could well be due to the ammonia you added. They don't like it very much.

Hello Sue,

Just repeated the 3 tests from this morning before adding the NH3. Results exactly the same. There is now a thick oily film on the surface, which is clearly affecting gas exchange, despite the efforts of the spraybar. There are a number of large gas filled bubbles just sitting there. I burst the largest (about 3 cms. dia.) and had a sniff. It smelled odd (not like the 125L), but it wasn't a smell I remember from school chemistry days, (mind you, that was about 97 years ago), certainly not ammonia or hydrogen sulphide. Should I do a water change first, or just add the NH3.The fog in the tank now looks like an old London smog! (no wonder the snails have moved out......they were just within range....)

                                       Skittler

Hello Sue,

Thanks for the reply. I will do that. The Kleenoff I used is the NH3, which I also used on the 125L.

Yesterday, I spent a lot of time googling and reading about "bacterial bloom". Much of it was either very old, or of little use. However, I did find an article on www.oscarfish.com which, in my eyes, describes what has happened in my tank. It even explains the mysterious disappearance of the nitrate. Apparently, it's all down to "heterotrophic bacteria" as opposed to our much loved "autotrophic" ones.

It also suggests that one of the solutions is active carbon, which removes the organic food source for the heterotrophs......and I took mine out! If you have time to read it, I would love to know what you think.

I think my source of organics could be the water from the 125L. I replaced my active carbon pad in there with another ordinary sponge some time ago.

Thanks again, will keep you posted,

                                              Skittler

                                               

Agreed Sue. In the middle of the first change now, and the odour from the tank is most unpleasant. I am still doing small w/c's on the 125L every 4 days, to keep nitrates between 20 & 40, as my pathetic first attempt at fishless cycling produced 100's ppm of nitrate (mind you, the plants are growing very well). I have also recently reduced the amount I am feeding. So, another half an hour with the bucket and tube won't make a lot of difference. The space for the carbon in the filter is still empty, awaiting a second ceramic canister. I thought I would try just frequent w/c's first and see what happens. If that doesn't work, then I'll add the carbon. Otherwise we won't know which was the better solution.

Whilst I am desperate to have my Cherry Shrimps, I do enjoy "problem solving" (sad isn't it?). So, as the saying goes: "never a day passes when I don't learn something".

Thanks yet again for sharing your expertise,

                                      Skittler
                                 

I've never mastered the paper towel technique either, it always ends up with oily patches on the surface when I've tried. But then I am well known for being on the clumsy side.

As long as you haven't added any undechlorinated water, your autotrophs should be unharmed. We can get away with quite a lot of messing during fishless cycling as there are no fish to harm.

I'm at a loss to know what to suggest. I have no idea what could be causing the smell, or the cloudiness.

Hello Sue,

Progress! (possibly). The "light of day" (i.e. the cable behind the tank) is still just visible after 2 days. Also, the awful smell is now only discernible when I lift the hood. So, I thought I would test my parameters again.
NH3 0, NO2 0, and NO3 0! PH is 7.4, and the same as my tap water. Remember, this about 48 hours after adding 2ppm NH3 after a large w/c (4th time). I have retested my tap water, and confirmed the Water Authority NO3  figure of 5-10 ppm. I have read (oscarfish) that heterotrophic bacteria can consume NO3 and release nitrogen - which is odourless (according to Wikipedia). Also they can apparently operate with & without oxygen, whereas our "good" autotrophic ones can't. I really can't decide whether I have a cycle going on or not yet. So, here comes w/c no.5, followed by tests, and we will see what happens. I know that this is really sad, but I AM enjoying this.........fascinating.......Will keep you posted.

                                                 Skittler

You seem to be enjoying yourself far too much with all these cycle problems.

You don't need another tank, you need a science kit!