Fishless Cycle

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Offline Sue

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Re: Fishless Cycle
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2017, 09:55:02 PM »
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I didn't know that, Matt.
Like termites rely on microbes in their gut to digest cellulose in wood. I remember from biology that if you heat a termite to a certain temperature it doesn't kill the termite but it does kill the microbes and then the termite starves to death

Offline sjames

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Re: Fishless Cycle
« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2017, 06:54:33 AM »
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It makes me sad to read that. The others have been on the wafer and seem to be ok . I do have an external filter so will cover the outlet.
I am going to the store to talk to them. It's a specialist independent store, and they seem to know their stuff, but I will ask how long they've been with them.

Offline MarquisMirage

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Re: Fishless Cycle
« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2017, 06:51:07 PM »
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I use a filter intake sponge on my canister filter.  Not only does it protect your fishies it also acts as a pre-filter so the canister filter material doesn't get dirty as quickly or get blocked by large bits in the hose.  I have a quarantine tank and if I need it at any point I'll replace the filter intake sponge with a new one and use the good bacteria from the old one in the quarantine filter.

Offline sjames

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Re: Fishless Cycle
« Reply #43 on: February 02, 2017, 01:32:34 PM »
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Update: Added 6 dwarf neon rainbowfish and four more Otos (different shop and bigger than my initial ones) making 7.
The others seem to be very happy, active, thriving. My otos and shrimp seem to have gotten much stronger and bigger. Had some shedding, which I first thought were losses, but taking out, it was pure exo so great.

Todays question please:

My water seems to have a lot of particles. The filter flow is excellent.
I've tested today, readings are all good (nitrate between 5-10ppm)(ammonia & nitrite both 0). I did a 20% water change on Saturday and about a 15% last night.
I have upped my CO2 at the weekend as a couple of plants weren't too brill, so I think I just have an element of the shrimp doing their gardening.

Do I need to swill the filter, my reluctance only comes from the fact I test every 2 days and take delight in my readings including nitrates.

thanks

Offline Sue

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Re: Fishless Cycle
« Reply #44 on: February 02, 2017, 01:40:55 PM »
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If you haven't already cleaned the filter media, I would see what it is like. When dirty, they are usually covered with brown goo which needs to be gently washed off. With a new filter you need to be extra gentle as the biofilm won't be completely bedded in yet. Squeeze sponges in a bit of tank water that you've removed from the tank, and swoosh any ceramic media.

If the particles are very fine, adding some filter wool (aka filter floss) might help trap them as they are too small to be trapped by a sponge. You can buy rolls of it or a length cut off a roll. Shops that also sell pond supplies are more likely to sell it like this.
Filter wool doesn't wash well as it goes into holes very easily but as it is not a very good home for the bacteria it can be changed regularly with out affecting the bacteria colonies.

Offline sjames

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Re: Fishless Cycle
« Reply #45 on: February 02, 2017, 03:18:58 PM »
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thanks Sue is it ok to do with a decent sized water change or is this too much in one go?

Offline Sue

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Re: Fishless Cycle
« Reply #46 on: February 02, 2017, 04:08:41 PM »
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You can do it with a water change of any size because there are virtually no filter bacteria in the water so it won't cause any problems.

Provided you remember to dechlorinate the new water and use warmed water  ;)

Offline sjames

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Re: Fishless Cycle
« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2017, 07:52:27 AM »
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Morning Sue, I did clean the three layers of filter media, by gently rinsing in removed tank water (I didn't do the bottom ceramic this time). There was plenty of 'gunge' particularly in the first layer.

I did note the water left in the bottom of the filter was rather dirty as well. I wondered if it was correct to drain this off, I didn't, as I wondered about too much too soon. Are the bacteria in this environment or are they all on the filter media? Appreciate your advices as always. The readings remain good, but the water remains not so clear.

thanks

Offline Sue

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Re: Fishless Cycle
« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2017, 02:20:03 PM »
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The bacteria we want live attached to surfaces. They live in the biofilm which covers all the surfaces in the tank. Filter media is designed to have a huge surface area (think of the surface of all those bubbles in sponges) which is one reason bacteria like it in there. The media is also in the dark and has lots of food and oxygen laden water passing through, which encourage the filter bacteria to grow in there.
In a brand new cycling tank the biofilm is still forming which is why you need to be gentle cleaning the media.

The brown gunge does not contain many bacteria, it is mainly organic waste - when you have fish, their poo, uneaten food and bits of dead plant break down to make this gunge. However, there is possibly some biofilm forming on the bits in the gunge.

Next time you open the filter I would be inclined to pour away the dirty water but don't wash the casing of the filter as there will be biofilm growing on that. Plenty of time to rinse the casing once the tank is cycled.

Offline sjames

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Re: Fishless Cycle
« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2017, 03:17:54 PM »
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Brill thanks

Offline sjames

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Re: Fishless Cycle
« Reply #50 on: February 16, 2017, 04:20:52 PM »
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Just thought I'd give an update....unsure if anybody is overly interested, but everyday something is learned.

So a couple of weeks ago I upped my co2. Started to get foam in the corner of the tank. It took my child who looked up, the honey gourami have laid eggs as of yesterday, and he was preparing, I also didn't know who the fiend was tearing up a buy of plant life!

The male is chasing everything, even the female. I don't hold out much hope as I don't have another tank, and I'm going away for 10 days.

I have a fish feeder, under strict instruction, my mother, and have just done a big change, hence another reason for the gourami to feel upset. She can top up dechloribated but not a water change. I think I'll be fine overall.

Regards

Offline Sue

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Re: Fishless Cycle
« Reply #51 on: February 16, 2017, 04:57:48 PM »
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I've had honey gouramis spawn in my tanks, the behaviour of the male you describe is usually what alerted me to look. Sometimes the eggs managed to hatch but the fry never lasted long once they became free swimming.


I don't know if you regularly top up the water between changes. Doing it as a one-off is OK but not as a regular thing using tap water as the mineral content will increase and the water get harder. If you do top up regularly, you need to use RO or DI water.

Offline sjames

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Re: Fishless Cycle
« Reply #52 on: February 16, 2017, 05:54:18 PM »
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Hi Sue I do top up - I'm using fluval aqua plus water conditioner everytime no matter how little or much (in the doses recommended). I've only ever used treated tap water, is this wrong ?

Offline Sue

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Re: Fishless Cycle
« Reply #53 on: February 16, 2017, 07:05:38 PM »
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If the water in the tank evaporates, water goes out of the tank but the minerals dissolved in the water stay behind.
Imagine a 100 litre tank. You fill it with 100 litres of water which contains 100 litres worth of dissolved minerals. 5 litres of water evaporates leaving its mineral behind, then you add 5 litre tap water with a full set of minerals. Now you have 100 litres water again but 105 litres worth of mineral.  The more tap water you top up with, the more minerals you put in the water so it gets harder and harder.
If you top up with pure water (RO, deionised etc) you add just water, no minerals so the hardness remains the same.

Offline sjames

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Re: Fishless Cycle
« Reply #54 on: February 16, 2017, 08:02:06 PM »
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What's pure water?

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Fishless Cycle
« Reply #55 on: February 16, 2017, 08:51:47 PM »
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As Sue mentioned, it has no minerals in it.
You can get reverse osmosis (RO) water from aquatics stores. It's usually used for marine set ups, and has a specific amount of minerals, etc added to it prior to use.
Deionised water is just another method for getting pure water.

Offline sjames

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Re: Fishless Cycle
« Reply #56 on: February 17, 2017, 07:51:40 AM »
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Ok, all my readings looked good including ph. I thought the treatment did the job. Do I buy in certain volumes and store at home? Is this just for topping up?

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Fishless Cycle
« Reply #57 on: February 17, 2017, 10:52:48 AM »
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I don't do top ups, I find it easier to do water changes and remove water from the tank then replace with dechlorinated tap water. By removing water from the tank you take out some of the excess/concentrated minerals before adding the dechlorinated water, which removes the requirement for RO/DI water that would be used for top ups.
If you want to top up most fish stores sell containers of RO water for a few pounds for 25L.
Top ups with RO or water changes would both be suitable to ensure that you don't increase your levels of minerals in the tank to unsuitable levels.

Offline Sue

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Re: Fishless Cycle
« Reply #58 on: February 17, 2017, 01:01:49 PM »
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Just to make things clearer - plain RO or deionised water is just for top ups between water changes. Weekly water changes still need to be done, and these can use tap water as you remove as many minerals as you put in.

By plain RO I mean RO water as it is made, and that the shop has not added anything to it.

Offline sjames

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Re: Fishless Cycle
« Reply #59 on: March 20, 2017, 02:19:34 PM »
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Thought I'd show my tank after 3 months or so...thanks to all that have helped. It takes some work but the reward is great.
My Emperor Tetras had some sort of bacteria infection which I managed to treat...one in particular lost all his lustre and I was genuinely concerned, all good now though although I'm watching very closely. I am unsure how the infection happened, and since this I've added an additional skimmer pump to add a bit more flow and oxygen. All the chemical readings hadn't shown anything.

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