Andy M Fishless Cycle

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Offline Sue

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #60 on: May 26, 2013, 02:24:39 PM »
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I agree that a pH drop is unlikely with hard water but theoretically it is possible.

Something you could try - I did frequent water changes once I was getting nitrite. I freely admit that huge water changes in a 25 litre tank are easy, and they would be time consuming in a larger tank. But you could try a biggish water change, say 50%, and see if that helps. If nothing else, you'll get practice using a siphon tube before you have any fish in there  ;D

Offline Andy M

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #61 on: May 26, 2013, 02:47:55 PM »
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Day 9

Ph 8.2
Ammonia still 0.5 ppm
Nitrite 5 ppm plus
Nitrate somewhere between 40 and 80ppm
Patience dwindling :(

Offline Sue

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #62 on: May 26, 2013, 02:55:33 PM »
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If you don't fancy the water change, add some more ammonia at your usual time and see what happens tomorrow. If you still have the 'dose amount plus 0.5' tomorrow, you'll know something has happened to your ammonia eaters.
It is possible the high nitrite is affecting things.

Offline Andy M

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #63 on: May 26, 2013, 02:58:52 PM »
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If you don't fancy the water change, add some more ammonia at your usual time and see what happens tomorrow. If you still have the 'dose amount plus 0.5' tomorrow, you'll know something has happened to your ammonia eaters.
It is possible the high nitrite is affecting things.

Now i'm confused

TigzFish

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #64 on: May 26, 2013, 03:03:06 PM »
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Based on your Nitrate (which I assume is the same as your original test), I would definitely go for a partial water change as Sue suggests. It can't hurt.  However, if the Nitrate has moved up from your original testing, then you must begin water changes to keep the levels under control.  Sue experienced the stall, and it was indeed odd, despite having good pH.  Mine crashed the pH because I'm in a very soft water area so very little buffering available.

Offline Andy M

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #65 on: May 26, 2013, 03:05:28 PM »
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Silly question but how does a water change help?

And what are ammonia eaters?

Offline Sue

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #66 on: May 26, 2013, 03:14:53 PM »
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Sorry  :(

Your ammonia is 0.5 at the moment. If you add you usual dose at the usual time, you'll then have however many ppm you add plus the 0.5ppm you have at the moment, ie dose amount plus 0.5.
If it is still reading that 24 hours after adding this dose of ammonia, it means that none has been eaten. You were seeing the ammonia level drop after adding a dose so if there is no drop tomorrow, something is interferring with your ammonia eaters. But if it does drop lower than the ppm you add plus the 0.5 already there you'll know your ammonia eaters are fine.

Adding a dose of ammonia today will show whether or not your ammonia eaters are still working. If it turns out they are not, we'll have to try and decide what to do. With a pH of 8.2 you have ruled out a pH crash. Your nitrAte is not particularly high, but your nitrIte might well be. All you know about that is that it's somewhere above 5. Another test you could try is add about 1ml of tank water to the test tube and top up to the line with tap water, then test for nitrite. Since the tube holds 5ml to the line, add water to a fifth of the way up to the line. If the reading is then somewhere on the chart, multiply by 5 to get the tank reading. If it's still at the highest colour, then your tank has at least 25ppm nitrite.

If it does turn out that you have a very high nitrite, that could be inhibiting the ammonia eaters (although it usually only affects the nitrite eaters). A water change would get the nitrite level down.

Offline Andy M

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #67 on: May 26, 2013, 03:27:15 PM »
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Tried 1 part tank water to 4 part tap water and got 0.25 ppm nitrite, making no sense whatsoever

Offline Sue

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #68 on: May 26, 2013, 03:41:44 PM »
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That does sound very odd. 0.25 should equate to a tank nitrite of 1.25 which is well down the colour chart  :-\


Grasping at straws time -
Are you washing the tubes very well after use, then drying them? I use a paper hanky twisted round till it is the right shape to fit in the tube.
How are you transferring the water from the tank to the tube? I use a pipette which I rinse well afterwards. I have recently heard that some people dip the tube into the tank and scoop the water into it - it never occurred to me to do that, probably as a result of having studied chemistry at university.
How are you getting the reagents into the tube? Holding the bottles vertically above the the tube or at an angle?
You are using both ammonia bottles for the ammonia test and just the one nitrite bottle for the nitrite test?

Offline Resa

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #69 on: May 26, 2013, 03:46:06 PM »
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I only ever dip my tube straight in to the tank water and scoop some up, it never occurred to me to use a pipette......probably as a result of me not having studied chemistry at uni ;D ;D

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Offline Andy M

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #70 on: May 26, 2013, 03:53:27 PM »
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washing tubes and drying with kitchen towel,  holding bottles vertically, using a 5 ml syringe to get water, just topping up after a 50% water change,

Enjoyed using syphon  ;D

Oh and added 10ml of nutrafin aquaplus yeah?

Offline Sue

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #71 on: May 26, 2013, 04:02:31 PM »
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I only ever dip my tube straight in to the tank water and scoop some up, it never occurred to me to use a pipette......probably as a result of me not having studied chemistry at uni ;D ;D

The danger comes if there are some chemicals still left in the tube, even a trace........


You don't need to use a pipette (mine are all saved from old meds) just something known to be uncontaminated to scoop the water out then pour into the tube.

Offline Andy M

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #72 on: May 26, 2013, 04:08:56 PM »
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So water changed, my next step is?

Offline Sue

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #73 on: May 26, 2013, 04:23:52 PM »
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Measure your ammonia and nitrite - it'll be interesting to see what the test kit makes of the nitrite level after the water change.

Then wait till your usual time and add the same dose of ammonia you have been adding and see what the readings are tomorrow.

Offline Andy M

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #74 on: May 26, 2013, 04:40:16 PM »
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Post 50% water change

Ammonia 0.25

Nitrite  Maybe somewhere between 2 and 5.   So hard to tell difference in the two shades

Offline Sue

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #75 on: May 26, 2013, 04:45:26 PM »
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Your ammonia at 0.25 is to be expected - 50% water changed, ammonia 50% of what it was.

The nitrite reading suggests it was between 4 and 10 before the water change (and I do agree about distinguishing the colour differences).

See tomorrow if the water change has helped or not.

Offline Andy M

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #76 on: May 26, 2013, 04:47:38 PM »
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So I will dose my 0.5ml later?

Thanks for your help Sue. Was starting to lose all interest

Offline Sue

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #77 on: May 26, 2013, 04:54:03 PM »
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Yes, dose than ammonia at the same time of day you previously dosed it.

Offline Andy M

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #78 on: May 27, 2013, 07:01:56 PM »
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Day 10

Ammonia 0.25 ppm

Nitrite either between 2 and 5 or above 5 ppm

Offline Sue

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #79 on: May 27, 2013, 07:42:53 PM »
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Aha, your ammonia eaters are still there  ;D The water change does seem to have helped. I've seen other people report that a water change does help when a cycle seems to be stuck - when it's not a pH crash that is.

So it's just a matter of patience now  ;D

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