Andy M Fishless Cycle

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Offline Sue

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #160 on: June 10, 2013, 07:29:13 PM »
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That's where I have the advantage - we aren't on a meter!

Your cycle looks like it's behaving nicely and it won't be long before it's finished.

Offline Andy M

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #161 on: June 10, 2013, 08:23:43 PM »
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Just waiting till I can dose the 4ppm and wait for the 12 hour zeros, soon hopefully

Offline Andy M

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #162 on: June 11, 2013, 07:04:35 PM »
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Day 24

Ammonia zero

Nitrite zero,  dosed 4ml ammonia to 4ppm ( yet to retest)

Should I check in the morning now although it won't quite be 12 hours before I go to work ?

Offline Sue

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #163 on: June 11, 2013, 07:52:56 PM »
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I would start checking tomorrow morning. It doesn't matter if it's not exactly 12 hours.

Offline Andy M

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #164 on: June 11, 2013, 07:54:35 PM »
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Thank you Sue, will do that

Offline Andy M

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #165 on: June 12, 2013, 06:43:32 PM »
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Day 25

First 12 hour test

Ammonia down to 1ppm

Nitrite around 5ppm.  Will see what tonight brings

24 hour test
Ammonia zero, nitrite zero.  Another 4ml ammonia added to 4ppm. Hoping for double zeros in the morning

Offline Andy M

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #166 on: June 13, 2013, 06:40:06 AM »
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Day 26

12 hour test

Ammonia 0.5 ppm

Nitrite around 5 again

Offline jesnon

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #167 on: June 13, 2013, 07:11:48 AM »
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Your cycle seems to be doing great, not long before the fishy finish line!

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Offline Sue

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #168 on: June 13, 2013, 01:22:38 PM »
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I found the ammonia was zero at the 12 hour test once I started testing then, probably because it had all the time while the nitrite level was still high to grow enough ammonia eaters to remove all the ammonia quickly. But it took a few days for the nitrite to drop to zero at 12 hours, and I only went up from 1 to 2ppm ammonia (25 litres with 1 betta is understocked so I didn't need any more)

Just checking my records, I find that my nitrite never did get quite to zero at 12 hours. I got a betta when it reached 0.25. I did keep an eye on both readings for several days after I got the betta and never saw a trace of either of them.

Offline Andy M

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #169 on: June 13, 2013, 02:09:02 PM »
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So is it a case of just waiting?  Will it get to zero?  I was hoping to get fish over the weekend

Offline Sue

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #170 on: June 13, 2013, 03:49:50 PM »
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It may not drop all the way to zero, mine didn't. But as long as the 24 hour nitrite is dropping to zero and the 12 hour is getting low you should be OK for fish. Just monitor both ammonia and zero twice a day as you are at the moment and you'll soon spot if there is either of them showing up. I've recently come across references to 3ppm being all you need. If 3ppm is all you need and your 4ppm isn't quite dropping to zero nitrite in 12 hours, you should be fine.
Don't forget to do a big water change shortly before you get the fish, especially if there is still a trace of nitrite in the water after 12 hours. Ideally, do the water change then go out shopping. Have you tested your nitrate? You'll probably find it's quite high now that you have nitrite eaters - that is why you do the big water change, to get rid of the nitrate.

Offline Andy M

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #171 on: June 13, 2013, 04:01:26 PM »
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Not tested my nitrate for a while so will do that tonight. The 12 hour reading for nitrite is around 5 the couple of times i've tested it so it'd need to be alot lower than that wouldn,t it

Offline Sue

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #172 on: June 13, 2013, 04:08:37 PM »
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Yes, nitrite does really need to be lower than 5ppm. Is it still reaching zero in 24 hours? If it is, I'd say wait till the 12 hour reading gets below 1.
Under optimum conditions (though our tanks are rarely spot-on optimum) these bacteria can double in 24 hours. It is just a waiting game now.

Offline Andy M

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #173 on: June 13, 2013, 04:16:51 PM »
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It was down to zero last night which was 24 hours after my first 4ppm dose so i'm hoping it will be zero again tonight

Offline Andy M

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #174 on: June 13, 2013, 05:50:36 PM »
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Day 26

24 hour test
Ammonia zero
Nitrite zero so dosed to 4ppm again
Nitrate I can only describe as a deep red colour, certainly not like anything on the chart

Offline Sue

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #175 on: June 13, 2013, 06:55:29 PM »
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That probably means nitrate is very high. Every 1ppm ammonia you add is converted to 2.7ppm nitrite and on to 3.6ppm nitrate. So every 4ppm dose of ammonia you've been adding ends up as 14.4ppm nitrate.



To be honest, something that has always made me think. Water changes are usually done once a week. One guideline to stocking level is that the nitrate reading just before a water change should be 20ppm or less above the tap water level. That is, if like me you have a tap nitrate of 5, the just-before-a-water-change nitrate reading should be no higher than 25ppm. 5.5ppm ammonia is converted into 20ppm nitrate, so that means a fully stocked tank should make no more than 5.5ppm ammonia in a week. It is no wonder that current thinking is heading in the direction of cycling with less ammonia that the traditional 5ppm doses.

I think I would be inclined to drop your next ammonia dose to 3ppm. That'll still grow you more than enough bacteria. 3ppm a day = 21ppm a week which will be converted to 75ppm nitrate in a week. That is way above what a fully stocked tank should produce.

Offline Andy M

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #176 on: June 13, 2013, 07:07:42 PM »
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So as and when the nitrate is down, how does it stay down?  Purely water changes?

Offline Andy M

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #177 on: June 13, 2013, 07:15:22 PM »
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Just tested tap water nitrates and even that is at least 40ppm, looks probably more so not much chance of keeping tank nitrates low

Just checked on water company site,  nitrates just over 40 for my area

Offline Sue

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #178 on: June 13, 2013, 07:24:51 PM »
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Removing nitrate, and replenishing things that get used up, is the main purpose of water changes. There are all sorts of other things we can't measure (eg fish hormones) that also build up and water changes remove them too. The nitrate level is something we can measure and it can be used as an indicator for all the other things as well.


With a tap level that high, 40ppm is the lowest you'll be able to get your tank nitrate by water changes alone. This is not a problem for the vast majority of fish. They can tolerate levels up to 100 with no problems. But there are some nitrate sensitive species. Reasearching before buying should flag up if any fish you want would suffer. Planting the tank heavily (and I mean more than just a dozen plants) can help lower nitrate but to get really low you would need to use something like RO water (water that has had everything dissolved in it removed). This is not a step to take lightly, and I would only recommend it once you get further into fish keeping and want to keep some of those nitrate sensitive fish.
The UK allows up to 50ppm in drinking water.

Offline Andy M

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Re: Andy M fishless cycle
« Reply #179 on: June 13, 2013, 07:46:26 PM »
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I have only got plastic plants, not real so will just have to put up with the nitrate level it seems

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