Author Topic: Andy M fishless cycle (Read 49596 times) 241 replies

Andy M · « **Reply #140 on:** June 05, 2013, 12:27:00 PM »

I will see how it is later and may do another water change in a day or two

Andy M · « **Reply #141 on:** June 05, 2013, 07:03:48 PM »

Day 18

Ammonia zero, didn't test nitrite. Just did a 50% water change and then added 0.5ml ammonia. Will retest shortly

Update
Ammonia 0.5 ppm
Nitrite zero !! Is this the start of things moving or purely down to two 50% water changes in consecutive days?

Andy M · « **Reply #142 on:** June 06, 2013, 05:37:01 PM »

Day 19

Ammonia zero

Nitrite zero again, Will add 0.5% ammonia or should I go for more?

jesnon · « **Reply #143 on:** June 06, 2013, 05:54:09 PM »

Great stuff! I'd start increasing the dose but Sue and others can advise better. Don't increase the dose too quickly though!

Andy M · « **Reply #144 on:** June 06, 2013, 05:58:43 PM »

Thanks jesnon, Just been reading Sue's " how to cycle" thread again so actually added 1ml of ammonia

Sue · « **Reply #145 on:** June 06, 2013, 07:54:19 PM »

Told you you'd get there

Slow and steady is the way. Increase a bit, wait till you get zero nitrite again then add a bit more, and continue that way till you get to the ppm dose you are aiming for.

The original fishless cycling method said the filter should be able to clear 5ppm ammonia to zero ammonoa and zero nitrite 12 hours after adding the dose. Over the years, as more research has been done, it has been realised that you don't need quite that many bacteria. With the colour steps on the API tester, it makes sense to aim for 4ppm. That will probably be more than you need, but it is better to have too many bacteria than not enough. With not enough it means daily water changes to stop the newly bought fish being poisoned. With too many bacteria, all that will happen is that some of them will die off till there's just the right number for the waste made by the fish.

Andy M · « **Reply #146 on:** June 06, 2013, 08:02:34 PM »

Thanks Sue, So I will aim for 4ppm, is that when I start testing every 12 hours?

Sue · « **Reply #147 on:** June 07, 2013, 08:56:22 AM »

Yes. So long as you are clearing 1ppm, then 2ppm, 3ppm and finally 4ppm in 24 hours you only need to test every 24 hours. Once you reach your target dose, you'll be dosing that once every 24 hours and testing at both 12 and 24 hours. Once you get double zeros at 12 hours, wait a few days to make sure you don't get a blip. Then do your huge water change and get fish

By huge I mean at least 80% as you need to get rid of the nitrate that has been made. And you should be good to get about three quarters of your planned fish - leave any delicate ones for at least a couple of months for the tank to mature.

A couple of definitions for you.
A cycled tank is one where the filter has grown enough bacteria to deal with tha ammonia from a tank full of fish.
A mature tank is one that has grown all the other micro-organisms that live in a tank, typically a tank that has been running 6 months.

We concentrate on fgrowing two species of bacetria as lack of them can kill fish. But there are many other things that need to grow which stabilise a tank. Some fish, eg neon tetras, can die for no apparent reason in a newly cycled tank. They seem to need something else besides just a cycled filter.

Andy M · « **Reply #148 on:** June 07, 2013, 10:40:00 AM »

So neon tetras off the list to start with then, any suggestions in that area?

Sue · « **Reply #149 on:** June 07, 2013, 11:42:26 AM »

What fish do you plan for this tank? If you give us a list we can look it over.

Andy M · « **Reply #150 on:** June 07, 2013, 06:34:39 PM »

Day 20

Ammonia zero

Nitrite zero

Upped dose to 2ml which hopefully will get 2ppm

Andy M · « **Reply #151 on:** June 08, 2013, 07:24:27 AM »

Quote from: Sue on June 07, 2013, 11:42:26 AM

What fish do you plan for this tank? If you give us a list we can look it over.

Well only wanting peaceful fish but also want hardy. Have looked at tetras (red eye and rummy nose, danios, dwarf gourami and also the panda corys that I think it Resa has.
Don't want anything that's going to become too big as I only have a 90 litre tank

Sue · « **Reply #152 on:** June 08, 2013, 12:08:17 PM »

Danios are very hardy fish but there a couple of things to think about with them. They really need a longish tank because although they are small they are very fast swimmers. Is your 90 long and shallow or tall and short? My Rio 125 is the same length as most 100 litre tanks, for instance, but it's taller, while my 50 litre has the same footprint as my old 60 litre, it's just not as tall. And zebra danios are subtropical so you would need to choose tankmates that prefer the temp around 23^oC rather than 25. Panda cories would be quite happy at that temp, as would things like white cloud mountain minnows (comes in grey and gold body colours, I always liked the gold variety)

Dwarf gouramis are a bit hit and miss. They are often infected by dwarf gourami iridivirus (DGIV) which is incurable. It only affects dwarf gouramis though, so every other species in the tank would be OK if you got a dwarf and it was one that had the disease. Either 1 male or 1 male 2 females as males can get nasty if they want to spawn and have been known to kill females. Or look at honey gouramis instead - they are fine as a m/f pair.

Rummies and panda cories fall under the same category as neons regarding tank maturity. Red eyes would be OK straight away.

Other small fish that would be OK straight away include most tetras except neons and rummies; glowlight danios (Danio choprai or choprae, I've seen both spellings. Not to be confused with glofish, the GM zebra danios), harlequin rasboras and their smaller look-alikes Trigonostigma espei (espe's rasbora, lambchop rasbora, slender harlequin in the database on here) and T. hengeli (hengel's rasbora, copper rasbora)

ColinB · « **Reply #153 on:** June 08, 2013, 12:35:05 PM »

Rummy nose tetras are tight schoolers and you need several (8 -12) of them in a long tank to allow them to 'do their thing'. Cherry barbs are tough, adaptable and interesting, as well as easily capable of thriving in a smaller tank. 3 males and 3 females are great together with the males turing deep cherry red and flaring their fins at each other and the barbie girls.

5-band barbs do well in a smaller tank - I have nine and they'll shoal loosely and nose around the substrate, but they're not very bright and colourful.

I'd go for honey gourami rather than dwarf gourami - they're much more tough.

Resa · « **Reply #154 on:** June 08, 2013, 04:33:59 PM »

Hi Andy,

Definitely avoid guppies if mine are anything to go by...they just suddenly die, it seems, for no good reason.

I can't recommend panda cories enough....they are so cute, and with such lovely characters! They are busy, bumbly little creatures and I lose hours just watching them. The pepper cories (corydora paleatus) are also beautiful and have the same lively habits. The colour and sparkle of mine have massively increased since I got them, so don't be put off if they appear a little dull in the shop. they positively bloom when they have got settled in their new home

I am so taken by them both that I intend to increase their numbers even more when I get my bigger tank.
I also have a colisa lalia, a dwarf gourami, called Flockhart. He is a very vibrant neon blue. The pics I am going to try and post again later do not do any of my fish justice as far as their colours go, but everyone who sees my tank always asks what he is as he so striking. I would also like to get him a couple of lady friends when he moves in to his new swanky mansion

Anyway, have fun deciding!

Resa

Andy M · « **Reply #155 on:** June 08, 2013, 08:07:51 PM »

Day 21

Ammonia zero

nitrite 0.25 so did a 50% water change and dosed 3ml ammonia to 3ppm

Andy M · « **Reply #156 on:** June 08, 2013, 08:18:57 PM »

Quote from: Sue on June 08, 2013, 12:08:17 PM

Danios are very hardy fish but there a couple of things to think about with them. They really need a longish tank because although they are small they are very fast swimmers. Is your 90 long and shallow or tall and short? My Rio 125 is the same length as most 100 litre tanks, for instance, but it's taller, while my 50 litre has the same footprint as my old 60 litre, it's just not as tall. And zebra danios are subtropical so you would need to choose tankmates that prefer the temp around 23^oC rather than 25. Panda cories would be quite happy at that temp, as would things like white cloud mountain minnows (comes in grey and gold body colours, I always liked the gold variety)

Dwarf gouramis are a bit hit and miss. They are often infected by dwarf gourami iridivirus (DGIV) which is incurable. It only affects dwarf gouramis though, so every other species in the tank would be OK if you got a dwarf and it was one that had the disease. Either 1 male or 1 male 2 females as males can get nasty if they want to spawn and have been known to kill females. Or look at honey gouramis instead - they are fine as a m/f pair.

Rummies and panda cories fall under the same category as neons regarding tank maturity. Red eyes would be OK straight away.

Other small fish that would be OK straight away include most tetras except neons and rummies; glowlight danios (Danio choprai or choprae, I've seen both spellings. Not to be confused with glofish, the GM zebra danios), harlequin rasboras and their smaller look-alikes Trigonostigma espei (espe's rasbora, lambchop rasbora, slender harlequin in the database on here) and T. hengeli (hengel's rasbora, copper rasbora)

My roma 90 is 60 cm long x 30 cm deep x 45cm tall

Sue · « **Reply #157 on:** June 09, 2013, 12:54:24 PM »

So it's a short tall tank. It has the same footprint as my 50 litre, but it's taller - my 50 litre is 60w x 30d x 30h cm.

The length is a bit short for danios and other fish that dash around. 90cm (3 ft) is the usual recommended tank length, though some people say 4ft. But there are plenty of other fish that are suitable.

I like small fish. I need small fish in my 50 litre, but I also have small fish in my 125 litre. My small fish are:
ember tetras - small and a gorgeous shade of deep orange.
green neon tetras - smaller than neons but still blue despite the name. But like neons, need a mature tank.
honey gouramis - yellow variety, 1m 2f
pygmy cories - a cory small enough for a 60 x 30 footprint (my 50 litre)
male endlers - tiny bright jewels, never stop moving

My largest fish are:
dwarf chain loach (in my 125 litre, 80 x 35 footprint)
Cockatoo cichlids 1m 1f (also in the 125)

Andy M · « **Reply #158 on:** June 09, 2013, 07:22:47 PM »

Ah right so will have to see what fish are suitable, prefer the smaller ones. Choice is lessening

Day 22

Ammonia zero

Nitrite looks between 2 and 5 so did a 50% water change and dosed 3ml to 3 ppm again

Andy M · « **Reply #159 on:** June 10, 2013, 07:04:39 PM »

Day 23

Ammonia zero

Nitrite 0.25 so done a further 50% water change and dosed another 3ml to achieve 3ppm

My water meter has been spinning this last few days

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Andy M Fishless Cycle

Andy M Fishless Cycle

Author Topic: Andy M fishless cycle (Read 49596 times) 241 replies

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