Am I Doing Something Wrong !

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Offline chris213

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am i doing something wrong !
« on: April 20, 2014, 01:25:43 PM »
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hi all and a happy easter.

iam currently 6 days into my fishless cycle and althow my ammonia is dropping nicely just tested and is down to .25 ppm i have no nitrites the test is showing 0 ppm, is this normal or am i doing something wrong or just being impatient if is the later please feel free to hit me on the head and tell me to be more patient   :vcross:

Offline Sue

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Re: am i doing something wrong !
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2014, 05:00:35 PM »
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If your ammonia is dropping, it has to be going somewhere.

1. In a plain tank with no plants or any mature media, it has to turn into nitrite.
2. In a tank with plants, the plants could be using it.
3. In a tank with a bit of mature media, there could be enough nitrite eaters to use the nitrite as quickly as it is made.
4. In a tank with plants and a bit of mature media, both 2 and 3 could be happening together.

Which of these scenarios is your tank?

If it is 1, you could try a nitrite dilution test. Without using distilled/RO/DI water and very accurate measuring equipment the results will only be very approximate but will tell you if you are getting a false zero and your nitrite is off the top of the scale. Mix tank and tap water in the ratio 1:4 and test again. If you get a reading somewhere on the scale, you'll know pure tank water is off the top of the scale. If it is still zero, that is a true reading.

Offline chris213

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Re: am i doing something wrong !
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2014, 05:39:37 PM »
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i currently have no plants in the tank, the media in the filter was mature so i assume its that the nitrite eaters are consuming it as fast as its made (is this a good thing or bad thing  :-\).Also becuase it now means my ammonia levels are low .25ppm should i add the second dose of ammonia now ?

just retested with dilutted mix was still at 0ppm

Offline Sue

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Re: am i doing something wrong !
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2014, 06:48:52 PM »
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If the media was mature, it seems as though you had some bacteria, just not enough for 3ppm's worth of ammonia (assuming that's what you dosed 6 days ago). What I think is happening is that you had some of both bacteria. The ammonia took 6 days to drop as there weren't enough of the ammonia eaters to get rid of all the ammonia straight away. They started by getting rid of a bit, and making a bit of nitrite; then as they multiplied they got rid of more and more, making an increasing amount of nitrite. The nitrite eaters may not have been present in any great numbers at the start but there were enough to cope with the small amount of nitrite made by the ammonia eaters. As the amount of nitrite increased, they too multiplied to keep up with the extra nitrite.

What is your nitrate doing, compared to your tapwater level? I know it's not a very accurate test but if it is going up it means you have nitrite being made and then turned into nitrate.

If your nitrate is going up, I would add another 3ppm dose tomorrow and measure both ammonia and nitrite every day.
If ammonia drops to zero but nitrite shows up, wait a couple of days and add 1ppm's worth ammonia and test again after 2 days. Continue like this until nitrite falls below 1ppm, then add a 3ppm dose and test after 24 hours. If both are then zero, your cycle will have finished.
If both are zero 24 hours after tomorrow's dose, add another 3ppm dose to check they are both zero the next day to confirm the cycle has finished.


Even having a few bacteria in the media can speed up a cycle enormously. It's getting them started that's the slow bit.

Offline chris213

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Re: am i doing something wrong !
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2014, 07:20:37 PM »
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just tested the nitrates

tap water about 10 ppm
tank water between 40 and 80 ppm
so i guess this confirms your theory

yes when i added the the ammonia 6 days ago i added a small dose waited tested then added a bit more to get to the 3ppm dose.
thanks sue :)

Offline chris213

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Re: am i doing something wrong !
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2014, 05:31:46 PM »
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confused , my ammonia has been sitting at around 1 ppm since tuesday (dosed up to 3ppm on monday tested to make sure was 3ppm half hour after adding )
have been testing daily and after the ammonia drop on first night it has been constant all week and no sine of nitrites althow i was assuming this was because of same reasons we discussed earlier in this post , i have been monitoring my nitrates all week and they have been riseing today tested they was over 80 ppm and i noticed my ph has was drooping was 6.0  :yikes: worried that nitrates was getting very high and that the ph was droping so quickly i did a 20 percent water change, (hope this was the right thing to do  :-\)
i have also tested a cup of tap water and a bottle of mineral water and noticed that my ammonia colours must be slightly off on the chart or my eyes are of to the makers of api as both tap water and mineral water looked more .25 ammonia colour to me than 0 :o
now i feel confused and lost  :(

Offline Sue

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Re: am i doing something wrong !
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2014, 07:07:25 PM »
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The API ammonia test is well known for looking like 0.25 when it is really zero. This is why it is commonly said to ignore an continuous ammonia of 0.25 with API as it is probably zero.

Nitrate is acidic and will crash the pH if the KH is low. It happened to me last year during a fishless cycle. A water change was the right thing to do as that will both remove some ammonia and also boost the KH. Though you should also add enough ammonia to get that back to what it was before the water change.

Do you know the KH of your tapwater? I've just quickly been through your posts and can't find a mention of it. You can get it tested at a shop, though if it turns out to be 3 degrees or below you'd be better off buying your own tester. 3 deg = roughly 55ppm if that's the unit the shop uses.
If your tap KH is that low, you also need a tub of bicarbonate of soda from the home baking section of the supermarket. If it turns out it is a low KH I'll give you the dose rate. The filter bacteria need carbonate in the water to multiply properly and they also need a pH higher than yours has dropped to. Adding bicarb will help on both counts.
And if the pH showed as 6.0, it could be lower than that! 6.0 is the lowest colour the tester can go.

Offline chris213

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Re: am i doing something wrong !
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2014, 07:17:10 PM »
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yes once i had done the water change i remembered reading a post on her mention about low kh being a possible cause for a ph crash so i rushed out to get a kh tester and gh tester came with it , have tested the tap water with it and if i worked it all out right it is 3 degrees so yes please if i could have the dosage rates i would be grateful (if i understand right thow i cant use bicarbonate soda once i have fish what should i use then ) .

Offline Sue

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Re: am i doing something wrong !
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2014, 07:36:30 PM »
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Once you have fish you'll be doing weekly water changes to remove the nitrate so it shouldn't build up enough to crash the pH. My tanks are fine with a minimum of 25% every week without fail. Many years ago I did get lazy over water changes and the pH did fall - I came on here to ask the advisor who was here then what to do.
Other options are:
Use a source of calcium carbonate - coral, crushed coral, limestone rocks - though crushed coral inside the filter is the best. With this method you should do several small water changes a week rather than one big one. The coral etc dissolves slowly increasing pH, GH and KH and if you add too much new water at one go it can change the water chemistry quite a bit. Frequent small water changes mean less new water at any one time.
Or use remineralisation salts as used for RO water (Kent RO Right, Tropic Marin tropical remin. salts [they make a marine one to so make sure it's the right one])

But as I said, I have KH 3 and weekly water changes work for me.

It's the sodium in bicarb that isn't good for fish like it isn't good for us  :D



Bicarb - remove some tank water and add 1 tablespoon/15ml spoon per 50 litres tank water. Dissolve it and pour back into the tank. Wait 20 mins-ish for it to mix and check the KH. Repeat as necessary to get the KH to around 8.

Offline chris213

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Re: am i doing something wrong !
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2014, 07:45:00 PM »
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thank you sue for the help its really good to have  :)

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