Author Topic: Advice about water readings and GH and KH (Read 18843 times) 75 replies

jesnon · « **on:** September 22, 2015, 02:51:29 PM »

I've finally gotten around to testing the new water in my tank and I'm a little confused to say that least...

My readings are
pH 8.2
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate between 20 and 40ppm

But.. I bought API GH and KH test kit and my results were off the scale!

My KH took 17 drops to change colour
GH took 22 drops!!
The table only goes up to 12 drops!? Have I done this wrong or is my water super hard!? And can I keep anything with water that hard? This is the water from my taps which comes from an underground bore

I'm going to add some ammonia and see if my filter bacteria have survived at all

Sue · « **Reply #1 on:** September 22, 2015, 03:41:39 PM »

Yes, water can be that hard. With bore water you won't have a water company to check your test results against.
Do you have access to any distilled water or deionised water eg for using in an iron? If you do, you could try a 50:50 mix with your tap water to get it onto the test kit's scale. But since these testers are usually titrations (add drops till the colour changes) they should still work higher than 12.

Since you currently have just the Fluval Edge, you could always use some RO water to bring the readings down a bit. If you are happy to keep hard water fish, you wouldn't need to bring it down by much.
Endlers, which I know you have had, are happy up to 35 German deg so your 22 would be fine for them. If you want a change, if you could find any something like Heterandria formmosa would be fine in an Edge. As would tiger teddies (Neoheterandria elegans).
I know you were thinking of a bigger tank after the move, if you are still thinking that way let us know the size and we can come up with ideas.

If you kept the media wet, some bacteria will still be active while others will be dormant and just waiting for food and oxygen to wake them up. A fishless cycle should go much faster that with brand new media - and with that KH they'll have plenty of carbonate to help the cycle along as well.

jesnon · « **Reply #2 on:** September 22, 2015, 04:28:33 PM »

Hi Sue hope you're well!

I have a water filter if that would work?

So if I went with endlers again we wouldn't need to change anything with the water? The other fish look interesting I'll have to find the nearest fish shop and go for a visit tomorrow to see what they have in stock. I must admit I was hoping to maybe go for another betta / fewer bigger fish but I know with my tank and water I'm quite restricted! I guess it wouldn't be a massive problem to go the RO route as you say my little tank wouldn't make it very expensive, especially as my normal tap water is free now anyway!

I'll have a word with my partner but so far he has been rather unconvinced by another / a bigger tank unfortunately - what a spoil sport!!

I kept the media wet but the moving process took a lot longer than expected so it was a long time between turning the tank off and setting the tank up again, but hopefully some bacteria survived! I've added some ammonia now so time will tell how many filter bacteria survived and how quickly my tank can be ready!

Sue · « **Reply #3 on:** September 22, 2015, 06:53:00 PM »

What do you mean by water filter - something that is attached to the water supply to soften it for things like washing, or a jug like a Brita jug?
Some of the mains softeners swap the 'hard' minerals (calcium and magnesium) for 'soft' minerals such as sodium. The danger with using this kind of softener with fish is that the total dissolved solids (TDS) remain the same - you are just swapping one thing for another - and there are no soft water areas that contain a lot of sodium in nature. Marine water does, as do the African Rift Lakes, but if you were to keep Rift Lake cichlids you wouldn't be looking to soften the water anyway.
Brita jugs swap the 'hard' minerals for hydrogen ions. pH is an upside down measure of the amount of hydrogen ions so the more there are the lower the pH. I tested the water in my Brita jug and it was off the bottom of the pH scale.

This is why it is RO or deionised water that is used to 'soften' water for fish tanks. These processes don't swap one thing for another but remove things, lowering hardness and TDS - and usually pH as well.

If you decide to use RO to widen your choice of fish, do it once you know the filter bacteria are up to number but before getting fish. You would need to use exactly the same ratio of tap:RO at every water change once you have fish.
Experiment in a bucket to find the ratio - you already have the GH tester.

jesnon · « **Reply #4 on:** September 22, 2015, 08:42:21 PM »

Thanks Sue that all makes sense - I meant a britta filter but I guess that's no use!

I'll wait until the tank is cycled before changing the water as you say but will check out the shops in my area for what they stock. It looks like there's a World of Water and Maidenhead Aquatics nearby, no idea of what the former is like though. If I did opt to change the water but stuck with my edge what fish could I potentially have?

Sue · « **Reply #5 on:** September 22, 2015, 09:19:23 PM »

Check out the actual GH levels these fish would need but for 23 litre Fluval Edge, you could think about:-
A betta
A shoal of one of the Boraras species. There are a few of them, it would depend on what was stocked in your area.
Possibly ember tetras (though SF says they need a tank a tiny bit bigger)
Sundadanio axelrodi if you could get the pH and hardness right down (see axelrod's rasbora in the rasbora section of the fish profiles on here)
Possibly celestial pearl danios (aka galaxy rasboras)
Scarlet badis (Dario dario) 1 male plus a few females
Some of the smaller killifish such as Epiplatys annulatus

There are probably more, but those spring to mind.

jesnon · « **Reply #6 on:** September 22, 2015, 11:58:38 PM »

I remember you mentioning the Dario Dario before - they're fantastic looking fish! I love the last fish you suggested too they look so different! I'll have a look around the two shops I know of and see if there's any around and just have a general nose - no buying though of course!

As much as I love endlers it would be nice to have something different for a while again. Though I did love my tank with all the different types in, they're such lovely fish so maybe if there's a few nice types I might end up with them again. Bettas I love too - will look how much I'd have to adjust my water.

jesnon · « **Reply #7 on:** September 23, 2015, 12:08:04 PM »

Just tested my water, unfortunately My results are the same as yesterday
Ammonia 4ppm
Nitrite 0ppm

Come on bacteria get growing! !

Sue · « **Reply #8 on:** September 23, 2015, 03:11:02 PM »

Something I should have mentioned - if you do want to get fish that really need soft water it might be better to use all RO rather than a mix, and add remineralisation salts.

Maybe the bacteria are dormant rather than dead. It takes them a while to 'wake up'; the longer they have been dormant, the longer it takes.

jesnon · « **Reply #9 on:** September 23, 2015, 06:38:27 PM »

I guess actually it would probably be easier to go the all RO route in some ways as it would be less complicated with water changes.

I really hope they are dormant fingers crossed!

I went to the nearest MA today and saw the following fish
Lyretail killfish - these had just come in so there was no details about their size etc so I couldn't work out if they would be a miniature variety like you mentioned?

Oddly I saw lots of lovely endlers but whilst one tank was labeled endlers two were labeled 'mini guppy' - snakeskin mini guppy and Scarlett mini guppy!?

When you said bororas would harlequin rasbora and neon green rasbora be right or are these different fish?

I also saw ember tetras they are lovely, do you think my tank would be pushing it through?

Sue · « **Reply #10 on:** September 23, 2015, 07:03:01 PM »

Boraras include B. brigittae (chili rasbora), B. urophthalmoides (often sold as chili rasboras but are less red, sometimes sold as sparrow rasbora or strawberry rasbora), B. merah (also often sold as chili rasbora or strawberry rasbora), B. maculatus. Have a look here.
Harlequins are bigger and do better in at least a 60 x 30cm tank, as do their slightly smaller relatives Hengel's rasbora and Espei's rasbora. Those three are all here
Neon green rasboras are Microdevario kubotai. I have some. They also do better in at least 60 x 30 cm.

I wasn't sure which species lytretail killifish were so I googled them and found this. It seems that a pair or trio would be fine. There are quite a few fish in the Aphyosemion genus, some will be harder to get than others. I have seen gardneris, bivittatum, striatum, and australe in shops.

You might get away with 6 ember tetras if you had plenty plants (real or fake). I found they can be a bit skittish if they feel exposed. When I had mine in the kitchen tank, they hid behind a plant every time someone walked past but then I moved them into the tank which used to be in the lounge they were all over.

Shops seem quite happy to make up names. Presumably they wanted to distinguish between 'true' endlers and those which are definite hybrids like snakeskin endlers. I wonder if they realise that the 'true' endlers they have are also hybrids? Just because they look like true endlers doesn't mean they are.

jesnon · « **Reply #11 on:** September 23, 2015, 10:18:04 PM »

Thanks Sue

Those kill fish do look lovely, oddly I couldn't actually see the one I mentioned but they appeared to be shuffling tanks around. A trio of those would be great though - I guess we'd need pure RO for them looking at their preferences?

Yeah the endlers thing was very weird! They were all lovely but the labeling did annoy me! I'll have a bit of think and read and see what to go for. There are three MAs near me including the one I went to and another so I could see what they all have

Sue · « **Reply #12 on:** September 24, 2015, 09:50:11 AM »

I hope you meant pure RO with some reminerlisations salts added

I don't think there are any fish in the trade that can live in just RO water, they all need at least a few minerals. There are a few products like Tropic Marin (careful, they do a marine version too), Kent RO right

jesnon · « **Reply #13 on:** September 24, 2015, 02:08:12 PM »

Ha yes sorry I did mean with the salts added as well!

Unfortunately my bacteria haven't shown their heads yet - ammonia and nitrite are still the same

Sue · « **Reply #14 on:** September 24, 2015, 04:03:52 PM »

That's a shame. It looks as though you'll have to go through the entire cycling process from the beginning

On the bright side, it does give you chance to look in every shop you can find and decide what you want

jesnon · « **Reply #15 on:** September 24, 2015, 06:14:49 PM »

I just hope it doesn't take as long as last time $:-\$

But good point about the shopping time! I guess I'll do a bit more exploring next week haha

jesnon · « **Reply #16 on:** September 25, 2015, 05:46:26 PM »

Bit confused by my readings today

The ammonia definitely looks like it's gone down to between 1 and 2ppm
But nitrite is still 0ppm... Which is surely impossible?

Sue · « **Reply #17 on:** September 25, 2015, 06:57:37 PM »

Not necessarily. There is one possibility that would explain this.

The bacteria may not have been completely dead. You may have had some ammonia eaters which were dormant and are beginning to wake up. They will have removed some ammonia and converted it to nitrite. The media may also have had some viable nitrite eaters just waiting for some nitrite to appear. As the ammonia eaters got to work, every bit of nitrite they made was promptly eaten by the nitrite eaters and turned into nitrate.

You need to wait and see what happens next before assuming I'm right. Once the ammonia reading drops to below 0.75, add another 3ppm dose of ammonia. If you don't get any nitrite once that starts to drop, do a dilution test. Mix 1 part tank water with 4 parts tap water and see if you get a reading for nitrite - and if you do, multiply the result by 5. Some nitrite testers behave oddly if the reading is off the top of the scale, the dilution test is to eliminate this possibility.

jesnon · « **Reply #18 on:** September 27, 2015, 01:11:46 PM »

I hope you're right Sue! I did readings last night but the light was poor so I couldn't see . This morning though

Ammonia 0ppm - yay!
Nitrite 0ppm

Just dosed the ammonia back up again we'll see what happens

jesnon · « **Reply #19 on:** September 28, 2015, 12:33:30 PM »

Ok so I tested this morning (less than 24 hours)

Ammonia between 0.25 and 0.5ppm
Nitrite I think about 2ppm bit it's a very pale lilac. I find it so hard to actually see the difference once it moves away from 0 ha. I guess the nitrite eaters haven't grown quite enough yet. Will check again tonight

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Advice About Water Readings And GH And KH

Advice About Water Readings And GH And KH

Author Topic: Advice about water readings and GH and KH (Read 18843 times) 75 replies

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