Advice About Water Readings And GH And KH

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Offline jesnon

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Re: Advice about water readings and GH and KH
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2015, 10:50:22 PM »
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Just wondering with the killifish how many we could have in our tank and m/f ratio? I'm guessing you shouldn't mix different types of them too? Just asking as my partner has taken a shine to the photos of them and wanted clown and the other one I'd seen in a shop but I told him we'd probably have to pick just one!

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Offline jesnon

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Re: Advice about water readings and GH and KH
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2015, 03:00:39 PM »
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Sorry Sue just realised you had already said a pair / trio of the Lyretail  :-[

The clown killifish it says on SF try to get 8 to 10... I'm guessing that is for bigger tanks though unless they are smaller than they look in the pictures!

Sorry to be a bit daft but what was my hardness again in degrees? For some reason I'm finding it hard to get my head around hardness (no pun intended!). SF says the lyretail like 18 to 179ppm and the clowns 18 to 143 - in that case would it be easier to use just RO water rather than a mix if I went for one of these fish?

Sadly I'm not sure if I can get to one of the shops today to get my water but if not I'll get my water tomorrow and perhaps fish once I've sorted the tank too, if not the fish will have to wait until Tuesday if they're in Stock anywhere of course

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Offline Extreme_One

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Re: Advice about water readings and GH and KH
« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2015, 03:20:39 PM »
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You can't use RO without remineralising it, no matter what fish you plan on keeping.

Quote
If you have decided you need to use RO water the first thing to be aware of is that it cannot be used "neat". Remember, the water now has no hardness and no alkalinity. It also has none of the essential trace elements needed for fish to be healthy and thrive.

All fish need some degree of hardness in the water, and some degree alkalinity is necessary to prevent pH swings. This means that some minerals and other elements have to be put back into the RO water to make it habitable.

You might find the following article useful if you're planning on using RO.

http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/articles_109/ro-freshwater.htm

I use RO and I add plain old tap water in order to remineralise.
I've found using a TDS meter, bought from Amaxon for about £6, invaluable in helping maintain the right hardness, but it took a bit of trial and error to work out the right ratio initially.

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Offline Sue

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Re: Advice about water readings and GH and KH
« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2015, 04:04:47 PM »
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Re hardness, there are several units that can be used, the ones in fishkeeping are German degrees and ppm (aka mg/l CaCO3). In your first post you said the API GH tester took 22 drops to change colour, so that is 22 German deg. To convert that to ppm, multiply by 17.68.
Your hardness is 22 German deg and 389 ppm. The killifish values on SF are ppm. Your water is about double the top end for killifish.
However, using a 50:50 tap:RO mix would be fine for them, and that is a very easy ratio to make up.


KH doesn't affect the fish directly the way GH does, but the more of it there is, the more stable the pH is. Even at half the value, your tap KH if good. It's when you get down below 4 German deg that the pH is in danger of crashing, and a 50:50 dilution would bring yours down to 8.5, still well above that.


As for killifish, in your tank just one species; a 1m 2 f trio should be fine. Now you just have to agree with your partner which one.



Don't forget to add 1ppm of ammonia every couple of days till you are ready to buy fish.

Offline jesnon

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Re: Advice about water readings and GH and KH
« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2015, 08:04:37 PM »
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Sorry Extreme one what I meant was whether to just use RO and salts or mix RO with my water.

Thanks for all of the info about hardness Sue that makes more sense now  :) I'll do a 50:50 mix then, that sounds quite easy and will keep my costs down too  :D

My partner likes the clown killis the most (we did originally want clown fish afterall hehe), so I think I'll have to ring around the shops and see if there's anywhere that stocks them as it was only the Lyretails that I'd seen in the nearest MA.

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Offline jesnon

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Re: Advice about water readings and GH and KH
« Reply #45 on: October 04, 2015, 08:48:49 PM »
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I forgot to say I tested the water earlier and it was 0ppm so good to go!

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Offline jesnon

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Re: Advice about water readings and GH and KH
« Reply #46 on: October 05, 2015, 09:42:01 AM »
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Right the first MA I called and woohoo! They have 4 in stock and just realised that sure enough there's a picture on their Facebook of one too - apparently they are calling them rocket ranchers or something odd like that but the Latin name is the same! I guess they probably won't let me have 3 as they are selling £10 for a pair and it would leave an odd fish, annoying. But exciting they are in stock at one of the stores, I'm hoping someone doesn't beat me to getting them. I have an opticians appointment so won't be able to get there until the afternoon and of course I need to pick up the RO water first anyway so I guess I won't get the actual fish until later this afternoon.

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Offline Sue

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Re: Advice about water readings and GH and KH
« Reply #47 on: October 05, 2015, 11:04:50 AM »
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If the shop does sell them before you can get there, one of the others may have them, or the first one could get more as they are obviously on MA's list. I have discovered that MA has a list of fish and individual managers can choose what they want from that list.

I would do a 100% water change when you get the RO, that way you'll know that all of it is the mix you are aiming for.

Offline jesnon

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Re: Advice about water readings and GH and KH
« Reply #48 on: October 05, 2015, 05:30:00 PM »
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Thanks Sue - my fish are all set! Unfortunately the shop Worker wasn't able to tell the sex of the fish and I had no signal to check myself whilst there so he's given me 3 fish but I may need to take them back if they're the wrong sex! Frustrating but apparently there's another guy that normally works there who could have helped. They're just settling in ATM so I'll leave it before I put the lights on and try and work out what I actually have! They're lovely looking fish, smaller than I expected especially with only 3 fish they look a bit swamped by the tank bless them!

What I didn't expect was how hard it was to sort the RO water - since I road my scooter there I could only get one tub of 10l which is the amount I needed to sort my tank for now, but the tubs are so heavy and tricky to do the water changes even pouring it from the drum into a bucket I spilt a lot of water everywhere! I guess there's a knack to it but it was just so heavy I'm not sure the best way to sort it for water changes in the future... I'm sure I'll figure something out!

Just wondering but since I've softened my water I thought I might have more luck keeping shrimp and I do love having them - would the killifish be OK with shrimp? I forgot to buy a floating plant as well to provide the killis with some more cover but I might just but online it was a bit of a drive to the shop! However they had the most gorgeous bettas I almost completely changed plan and went for one! There were a few creamy coloured ones that very nearly tempted me!!

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Offline jesnon

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Re: Advice about water readings and GH and KH
« Reply #49 on: October 05, 2015, 06:05:44 PM »
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Hmm I can only find two of my fish now I've turned the lights on. . Hopefully The other one is just hiding  :-\ I can't tell of the two I could see what sex they are. Further research needed!!

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Offline Sue

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Re: Advice about water readings and GH and KH
« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2015, 06:45:58 PM »
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Don't worry about the 'missing' fish. Unless it could manage to have jumped out, it will be somewhere. The whole experience is stressful for them, from being in the wholesaler's tanks through to being put into your tank. It can take some fish a couple of weeks to settle in.

I've just looked at MA's website, in the database. In the killifish section they have rocket panchax, Epiplatys annulatus. Is this what you've got?
SF call them clown killifish, and all they say on sexing them is "Males are more colourful, develop more-extended fins and grow larger than females." Not terribly helpful!

Offline jesnon

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Re: Advice about water readings and GH and KH
« Reply #51 on: October 05, 2015, 07:58:34 PM »
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Thankfully I saw all three earlier but when my partner got home we could only count two again - like you say I think one is just more shy and stressed by the experience than the other two.

Yes they were calling them Rocket Panchax  :) Yeah all the info about sexing is very vague and I'm more confused than ever now! One of the fish is smaller than the others but they all look very similar :-/ So far they seem happy together / to be ignoring each other so hopefully that's a good sign! ?

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Offline Sue

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Re: Advice about water readings and GH and KH
« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2015, 09:05:40 PM »
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If they are still young enough that any males you have are not more colourful than the females, you need to wait till they mature to see if they still play nicely together. Looking at photos of them, males do seem to be more colourful, so you can only wait and see.

Offline jesnon

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Re: Advice about water readings and GH and KH
« Reply #53 on: October 05, 2015, 09:43:07 PM »
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Fingers crossed I've somehow got the right combination  of fish - I'll keep my eye on them and see how they develop. I might just not be getting the hang of it they don't hang around right next to each other so it's  hard to directly compare them.  We'll see how they get on!

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Offline jesnon

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Re: Advice about water readings and GH and KH
« Reply #54 on: October 06, 2015, 11:14:14 AM »
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Hmm after further observations I think I may have 2 males and 1 female but it's still hard to tell.  One is very brightly coloured and has a colourful tail, but the other possible male is paler and smaller but with a similar tail so he could just be younger and not coloured up yet.  The possible female is the one who keeps disappearing, she's a lot Smaller less colourful and her tail seems less colourful.  I'm a little concerned about her as she seems to be hanging out at the bottom of the tank when I think these fish prefer the top and doesn't look 100%. One of the possible males was hanging above the female shimmying near her - not sure if he was attempting to mate!?




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Offline Sue

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Re: Advice about water readings and GH and KH
« Reply #55 on: October 06, 2015, 11:58:52 AM »
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If you do have 2m 1f, that could be why the female is hiding. I would be inclined to contact the shop and see when the 'other chap who could have helped' is in. If he can verify that fish number 4 (the one you didn't buy) is a female, I would ask if you could swap the one you think might be a male with number 4. Since they are the only fish in a tank that has been empty of fish for weeks, there should be no problems as you will have no diseases in your tank other than what the new fish could have brought in so they can't refuse on the possibility of infection grounds.

Offline jesnon

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Re: Advice about water readings and GH and KH
« Reply #56 on: October 06, 2015, 01:29:09 PM »
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I think the other guy is in today so I'll give them a ring and see what he says! That would make sense if she is hiding from the boys!

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Offline jesnon

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Re: Advice about water readings and GH and KH
« Reply #57 on: October 06, 2015, 07:38:43 PM »
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Unfortunately it looks like the possible female fish is dying, she is currently floating around upside down... :-s all of the fish are behaving slightly oddly - fairly inactive and hanging around the surface. All the water appears to be fine though - ammonia and nitrite both 0ppm, hardness within their range, temp normal. I introduced them to the tank slowly etc.. I think the two will be fine but not expecting the third to make it, wonder what went wrong. I forgot to ring earlier so will ring tomorrow, I'm hoping the weather is better it wasn't a nice drive there in the wet if I need to go back

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Offline Sue

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Re: Advice about water readings and GH and KH
« Reply #58 on: October 06, 2015, 07:45:42 PM »
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I'm sorry to hear that  :(

If the female does die, I would still try to exchange the possible male for the one left at the shop if it is female - you don't want to buy that one and keep the other two and end up with 2m 1f.

Offline jesnon

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Re: Advice about water readings and GH and KH
« Reply #59 on: October 06, 2015, 09:09:36 PM »
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Thank you Sue. I'll find out tomorrow what the one left at the shop Is if it's still there and see if they can offer any more advice about whether I have 2m 1f. Fingers crossed the fish pulls through but it's not looking promising. I'm sure I've asked this before but would it be ok to return a fish in tupperware? I don't have any spare fish bags or anything else I could use if my other fish is a male

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