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60 L To 200 L Tank Change

Author Topic: 60 l to 200 l tank change  (Read 4262 times)

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Offline fruitbat

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60 l to 200 l tank change
« on: October 09, 2016, 06:06:02 PM »
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hi, changing me 60l tank to 200l tank this week.. i would like new substrate which would be sand instead of gravel and changing filter to new one too, i have been told by shop keeper i could put 25 % water in and top up with my original tank water , orniments and swap bio media.. then top up water slowly until full over next few weeks..  is this good advice .. any info would be appreciated.... exciting times ahead hopefully  :fishy1: ps not possible to cycle one tank then change ..


Offline Sue

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2016, 06:22:18 PM »
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If you intend moving everything to the new tank, once you have decided on your substrate it would be easier to  do it all at once. I don't understand why he is suggesting just half filling the new tank then filling it right up over a few weeks.


So, what exactly will happen. You get your new tank and then -
put in in the place where the 60 litre is now or somewhere different?
keep the 60 litre running as well as the 200 litre or just have the one big tank?
if keeping both, will all the current fish stay, move or some will move and some will stay?

It'll be easier to give our opinions when we know exactly what your plans are.

Offline fruitbat

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2016, 06:30:56 PM »
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hi, the big tank is going where the small one is, doing change straight away as cannot keep both running at same time, so fish will be going in from one tank to the other straight away or as soon as i can, prob have to keep in buckets while i set up etc ,

Offline Sue

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2016, 06:49:16 PM »
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The first thing you need to do is make sure you have everything you need in advance. The last thing you want is to be half way through and have to dash out to buy something.

Feed the fish less than usual for a few days before and after the move and nothing on the day itself.

If you will be using sand it will need washing. Do this in advance as some sand takes a lot of washing!

Once you are ready, the first thing is to empty the 60 litre tank. You'll need as many buckets/storage boxes as necessary to hold the water in the 60 litre.
Start by transferring water to one bucket, then put the decor in there.
Then fill another, catch the fish and put them in bucket 2. It will be easier to catch them with the decor removed. Put the heater and filter in the fish bucket and turn them on. Cover this bucket as stressed fish will jump.
Continue emptying the tank into buckets until you've got as much water as you can without stirring up muck from the bottom.
Move the old tank to somewhere you can abandon it for a while.

Now move the new tank into position. Put the substrate in followed by a few inches of new, dechlorinated water. If you have live plants, now is the time to plant them. Attach the new heater to the tank.
Now start adding water from the buckets with just water in, then add fresh dechlorinated water warmed to the right temp until the new tank is almost full. Leave enough room for the water in the decor and fish buckets.
Now place the decor and water in the tank and arrange to your satisfaction. Turn ff the heater and filter in the fish bucket and take the filter out. The next step is up to you. You can either run both filters for a couple of months or you can remove all the media from the old filter and put it in the new filter, filling the gaps with new media. To be honest, I'd do the latter. Put the filter(s) in the tank and turn both heater and filter on.
Finally catch the fish and put them in the new tank and the water from that bucket. Strictly speaking, you should bag them in water from the old tank and acclimatise them to the new tank  but since you'll be using all the old water it's just like doing a huge water change. As long as the temperature isn't greatly different they should be OK going straight in. Finally top up the water to the full mark.

Leave the lights off for the rest of the day. Check for ammonia and nitrite every day for the next few days. You will lose the bacteria in the biofilm on the glass, the substrate and the old filter casing and heater. There will still be lots in the filter media and on the decor and they should make up the numbers quickly. But it is better to check just in case.


Then get a cup of tea and go and deal with the old tank!

Offline fruitbat

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2016, 09:20:04 PM »
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that will be a stressful day, if I'm going to get an external filter is it better to do it straight away or use the one I'm given with the tank, i was going to get a fluvial 206 or 306. the internal one i got with the tank is a aqua fan filter 3 plus( 150 to 250 litres ) which would you go for sue

Offline Sue

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2016, 10:06:33 AM »
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I'd go for an external. 200 litres is just about at the limit for internals.

I've looked at the manual for the fan 3 plus and it's maximum turnover is 700 litre/hour. That's just 3.5 times the tank volume and the minimum recommended is 5 times. And tank manufacturers are notorious for putting underpowered filters in their tanks.

You do have the alternative of using the fan filter and a second internal. That would be cheaper, if that makes a difference  :) If you were to choose this option, look at Fluval U series or Eheim Biopower filters. Both would be good for your old media as the Fluvals come with a central box for ceramic media which could hold the old media instead, and Biopowers have a series of baskets filled with Eheim's equivalent of ceramic media which could also be be easily swapped for your old media.



I've just edited my previous post because in the last paragraph where it says check for ammonia every day for the next few days it should have said check for ammonia and nitrite  :-[

Offline fruitbat

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2016, 01:17:36 PM »
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hi,i have a fluvel u2 at the moment in my 60l tank so maybe use that as it has old media in too,saying that i have the money to buy an 306 external if that would be better, also i will be able to move my 60l tank for a day or 2 max so i can make sure everything ok with new one, leaks etc and make sure everything works . if i do this what would you suggest is best way going about it or is original way best , thanks again for your help

Offline Sue

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2016, 05:06:49 PM »
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In the short term you'll have just the same fish so you can just move the U2 to the new tank and run it in there. You might get away with running both the U2 and the Fan filter together in the longer term with more fish, but if you'd rather just have one filter it would look better.

If you want to move the 60 litre to another position it's pretty much the same as the swap, just not quite as bad. You would need to empty the tank and take the fish out as there's be no water. It is not advised moving a tank with water in it, even a couple of inches. Tanks are designed to be strong when stationary; the seals resist a large amount of water pressure from a full tank. But when a tank is moved, water sloshes about and this sloshing twists the panels against each other and can weaken the seals.
If you don't mind going through moving the water and fish later, it won't be as bad as doing everything at once.



Do they still make 60 litre plastic dustbins? I have one which I found very useful when I moved my old 125 litre across the room, and later when I upgraded from the 125 l to a 180 litre. They can even be 'walked' from one place to another when almost full. If you did get a large container, I'd still put the decor in a separate bucket
as not having decor in the tank or large container makes catching fish much easier.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2016, 05:08:26 PM »
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I have been in a similar situation recently with my dwarf puffers, which were upgraded to a 220L tank, which was going into exactly the same space as the 125L that they were in. I had a few 70L tanks available, and the4 original 125L tank had 2 internal filters, so I split the fish between the 2 smaller tanks, a filter and a heater in each, which gave me some breathing space to set up the new tank. I had breathing space but not physical space, and one of the smaller tanks was temporarily stored on the dining room table, but needs must and all that.
It was a big & complicated set up for me, and I had a new external filter as well, so I set everything up, then put all the media from one of the old filters into the external filter, moved the fish, and ran the other internal filter in the new tank for a few weeks as well. I wouldn't have been able to set up the new tank and moved the fish in one day.
Best of luck with your tanks move.  :)

Offline fruitbat

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2016, 05:21:01 PM »
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hi, going to move 60l tank tonight to a temp position , then on wed i am moving them in to position in new tank, therefore i have a little time to sort out new tank, is it best to put some water in new set up maybe 25% and heater on, then when I'm ready add old water etc then fill up to top with tap water (treated of course) ..

Offline Sue

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2016, 06:27:46 PM »
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Yes that is a good idea. Since the new tank is 200 litres and the old one 60 litres, you could add 120 to 130 litres comfortably, then you'll just need to put the majority of water from the 60 l in on move day and top it up if necessary.

If you do this, on move day just turn everything in the 60 l off, transfer the plants, decor and filter straight over, then remove some water straight into the new tank, catch the fish and put them in, then finish transferring water. It is easier to catch fish if there is less water and no decor  :)

Provided you don't rush out and get a lot more fish straight away, the U2 will be fine for the same number of fish. If you find the water flow is leaving dead spots, you could always use the Fan filter without media as a powerhead just to move the water around. If you put media in it then decide on an external you'll have grown a few bacteria in the Fan's sponge which is why I suggest using the filter empty.

Offline fruitbat

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2016, 10:02:24 PM »
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first part done, everyone seems ok , I'm cleaning new substrate tomorrow and filling new tank then moving my fish in on wed or thurs the latest , must admit I'm a little excited at having a bigger tank  :fishy1:... i have ordered my new 306 fluval and thats coming tomorrow so may start it up or may leave a while as I'm not quite decided which way to go as yet ... thanks again for your advice ill try put a picky on when I'm done ;-)

Offline Littlefish

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2016, 07:52:28 AM »
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Well done. I hope that the fish enjoy their new large tank when they move. I'm looking forward to seeing some pictures.  ;D

Offline Sue

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2016, 09:01:45 AM »
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Well done, moving the tank is the harder part. I've done both - moved a tank across the room, then a couple of years later upgraded to a bigger tank in a different room. The main difference is that you are doing both within a few days not a couple of years  :)

You do have time to decide what to do about filters. As long as you don't get more fish until you have decided and then done it, the U2 is already cycled for the fish you have. It would give the bacteria in the filter media time to replace those on the old tank's glass and substrate if you take a few days to decide.
It would be easy to change to the 306 - just mix the U2 biomax with the 306 biomax, and put the U2 sponges either in the biomax as well, or cut U2 sponge shaped holes in the 306's sponge. You don't need to use carbon, I would replace that with more biomax or sponge. But you could place the U2's poly-carbon pads underneath whatever you choose to use in that basket. I would leave the old media in the external for a month after you have finished getting new fish. The biomax could stay there forever, and the sponges replaced with the media that was supposed to go where they are.

Offline fruitbat

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2016, 09:41:26 PM »
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just an update, fish are now happily moved with no casualties  as yet, they seem ok .. i have put in old u2 filter and new filter that came with the tank for now, i did put some old media in the new filter from old one that was in my tank and just put the u2 in as it were.. my readings are normal except ammonia which is .25 to .50.. i have done a 10 % water change today and just test daily..  can i expect the ammonia to go up do you think then the nitrite or may i just settle down?  i will put on a photo when i work out how to do it ..  :fishy1:

Offline Littlefish

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2016, 10:11:15 PM »
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Congratulations on the fish move, great to hear that it has gone well.  :cheers:
It is not unusual for there to be a sort of mini-cycle, even with moving all old filter media into the new tank. The old tank would have had beneficial bacterial on the tank surfaces, the substrate, everywhere, and it is that bacteria that you don't have yet in your new tank. I would say that you are doing the right thing with regular monitoring and small water changes, but it would be worth getting advice from our tank cycling expert @Sue .
I'm really looking forward to seeing some pictures.  ;D

Congratulations again on your upgrade.  8)

Offline fcmf

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2016, 10:32:14 PM »
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Congrats on the upgrade and glad fish seem to be ok. :)

As any level of ammonia is toxic, I would advise larger and more frequent water changes to see if that helps eg 2 x 25% water changes per day, to see if you can get the ammonia down to 0ppm (or larger water changes if that helps to get 0ppm).

Seachem Prime as your dechlorinator would be particularly beneficial while this mini-cycle is happening as it can also detoxify ammonia, nitrates and nitrites for 24hrs.

Sue will no doubt provide better advice in the morn but hope this helps in the interim.


Offline Sue

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2016, 11:10:50 AM »
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I agree, changing tanks does lose some of your bacteria. The good news is that it shouldn't last long as the bacteria just have to play catch up rather than start from scratch. Keep an eye out for nitrite as well, particularly after ammonia starts to drop.

You could use this calculator to check for amount of ammonia in the toxic form. Enter your tank data on left (set salinity to zero) and click calculate. As long at the bottom figure on the right, NH3 concentration, is below 0.02 it is OK to leave it without a water change. Up to 0.05 is acceptable for a day or two but no longer than that.

But you'll need to do water changes if that number goes higher than 0.05 and/or nitrite goes above zero.

Offline fruitbat

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2016, 08:44:18 PM »
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hi all, thanks for your good wishes fcmf and little fish and also sue, i have tested water and used your formula and seems non toxic at the moment..  i have decided to put new external filter in now and put old media in it to start off the cycle again.. i still have ammonia and ding 10 to 20 percent a day to keep it down .. is seachem  prime good stuff for keeping ammonia non toxic or is their anything else i can try as my water from tap seems to have a little ammonia in it ! thanks again for your advice   ps  lost glen the guppy today but he was a sickly fish :-( 

Offline Littlefish

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2016, 07:51:06 AM »
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Sorry to hear about Glen.  :(

I'll leave it to Sue and fcmf to answer your question about ammonia and Seachem prime as they know their stuff.

Offline Sue

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2016, 12:04:52 PM »
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The UK allows up to 0.5 ppm ammonia in tap water. One source of this ammonia is the use of chloramine as a disinfectant instead of chlorine.

Prime is only one of a range of dechlorinators that 'detoxifies' ammonia. Most of them do this. But Prime is the only one that claims to 'detoxify' nitrite as well, though the company admits they don't know how it does that, they only found out it did after people reported it.
As long as it's only ammonia in the water, any dechlorinator that 'detoxifies' ammonia will do. They do this because the use of chloramine in other countries is widespread, and some companies in the UK also use it. Chloramine is a chlorine and an ammonia joined together. The chlorine removing ingredient splits them apart and removes the chlorine leaving the ammonia part in the tank water. The tank bacteria will eat it within a few hours but the ammonia detoxifier renders this ammonia less harmful until it has all been eaten.
Our test kits will detect the ammonia in the water plus the detoxified ammonia so even after using an ammonia detoxifying dechlorinator ammonia will still show up in the test.
One thing to bear in mind is that the detoxifying process lasts only about 24 hours so water changes still need to be done if the ammonia reading is above the safe limit next day, but the fish are safer between water changes.

In your situation, I would suggest using any one of the dechlorinators that detoxify ammonia since you have some in your tap water. But the choice of which one is a personal thing. I know a lot of people like Prime because it does detoxify ammonia and is concentrated so you only use a bit meaning it works out cheaper overall, but a number of other people won't use it because Seachem won't say what is in it. They say the ingredients are a trade secret.


Now that you have set up the external it is just a question of waiting until both ammonia and nitrite stay at zero. Once you are sure they are stable, you can even think about adding more fish. A few at a time, waiting till you've had a week of double zeros between batches of new fish. As a rough guide, it is safe to add in one batch one third of the fish already in the tank.

Offline fruitbat

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2016, 10:16:50 PM »
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ok thanks, with the new filter is there a height the intake must be , i have put it about 3 inch off the bottom just in case i have a problem and it sucks all water out !  should it be higher ?  any info appreciated . thanks oh ps  ammonia still .5 ish and doing lots of testing and water changes  :fishy1:

Offline Andy The Minion

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2016, 11:18:11 PM »
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@fruitbat I thinks its fairly normal to have the intake at the bottom, that's where I put mine, the return is then diagonally opposite at the top to create a good mixed flow across the tank. You are correct if the filter springs a leak it will drain the tank unless you have a skimmer on the intake line but that is the nature of the beast.
Just take care that the filter connections are not stressed by the pipe and check for leaks after an maintenance. You could drill a 5mm hole in the intake pipe 20mm under the water surface to act as a syphon break but even 20mm of water leaking will look a bit like a disaster when you discover it, so leak free is the preferred solution :)

Offline fruitbat

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2016, 10:57:02 AM »
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hi, andy the minion , ill leave it as it is then but make sure the outlet is low but high enough to leave 4 inch of water in case of disaster and cut any slack on the pipes   :D

Offline fruitbat

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2016, 05:57:26 PM »
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hi, 2 weeks in and things seem ok , my ammonia is still at .5 to 1 and ph 6.6 which it has dropped from 7.6, the ammonia calc you gave me shows they are ok though i do water changes,still no nitrites yet.. i also got an algae bloom :-( . i put some live plants in last week but they starting to wilt already but as i said the fish and our 6 fry seem to be ok. is there anything i can do to get the ammonia down or is it a wait and see and keep doing water changes and is there any way of getting rid of algie bloom, thanks for any advice sue ....again :-)  :fishy1:

Offline Littlefish

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2016, 06:18:43 PM »
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Normally I'd say Seachem Prime, or similar, for the ammonia. I'm guessing it would be ok with fry, but it woud be worth checking with the others who are more expereinced.
An algae bloom can usually be dealt with by keeping the tank in the dark for a few days - turn off the lights and keep the tank covered so it is really dark. I can't imagine this would have a detrimental effect on the fish & fry, but agin it's worth checking with the others.  :)

Offline Sue

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2016, 06:43:20 PM »
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Fruitbat, did you have problems with very soft water a while ago? Or am I confusing you with someone else?

If it was you with very soft water, that could account for the pH drop as all sorts of things excreted by fish can be acidic. Maybe try putting some crushed coral in a bag in the filter to help keep the pH level.

Offline fruitbat

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2016, 10:02:26 PM »
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hi, yes i did have problems,i put the crushed coral in the old filter but put it in the tank on this one, you think best in the filter again then , ph is still ok at 6.6 but don't want it to drop like before to 5 .. :fishy1:

Offline Sue

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2016, 11:34:25 AM »
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If you can squeeze it in the filter it will get more water flow over it so it will dissolve better.

At low pH the filter bacteria stop multiplying, and this could be what you are seeing with you ammonia reading. The good news is that the more acidic, the more of the ammonia there is in the less toxic form.

Offline fruitbat

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2016, 04:07:06 PM »
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hi guys,well now I'm 5 weeks in to my tank change, its gone pretty well as my fish have survived except a couple of deaths,, my readings are ok, ph 6.6 to 7 ammonia .25 nitrite 0 and nitrate 0. during the cycle i expected a nitrite reading but had nothing,its been nil all the time and ammonia cannot get lower than .25 but to be fair its been like that a while now.. do you think its ok to add fish now as they all seem happy.. i have added a couple of yellow rabbit snails and 2 shrimp that have shed their skin this week ..

Offline Sue

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2016, 04:18:28 PM »
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With your pH, that ammonia reading is fine. Free ammonia is very low at at low pH and yours will be well under the 0.02 critical level for free ammonia.

So as your ammonia is nice and low, and nitrite at zero, and they have been for over a week, yes you can get more fish  :)

The maximum you should get at each purchase is a third of the number of fish already in the tank, and check the levels for a few days after putting them in.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2016, 05:36:06 PM »
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Hooray, a stable tank, and time for fish shopping.  :cheers:

Offline fruitbat

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2016, 08:53:00 PM »
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hooray to me and thanks to you guys for your advice, ill be out tomorrow to buy a few fishys :-)  :fishy1:  just a note if you remember my first batch of fry a while back,well they have had babies of their own and they are doing fine too.. :-) love this hobby and my wife and i love sitting down and watching them  .. cheers guys

Offline Littlefish

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2016, 09:02:26 PM »
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OMG, second generation fry. Congratulations.  :cheers:

Offline fruitbat

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2017, 10:50:58 PM »
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hi guys, just an update if anyone interested.. my tank is now thriving and we have 14 babies at the moment, sunset platys and mollies and now have a baby yellow rabbit snail we call albert. i have 46 fish inc babies and 6 rabbit snails and 3 shrimps.. fish are mollies,platys(sunset and panda),rummys, cardinals,black tail sword fish and 3 sailfish mollies.. they all seem to get on at the moment and the best thing is my wife now loves fish keeping too,we often sit down for half an hour watching them .. again many thanks for your advice ..  cheers

Offline fcmf

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2017, 10:57:17 PM »
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Of course we're interested!  :D

That's fantastic news- really pleased that all is going so well for you and the fish. Even better that your wife shares your enjoyment of fishkeeping.  :)

Offline Andy The Minion

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2017, 08:17:02 AM »
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Excellent news @fruitbat and well done! I went through the something similar recently and being in a position to watch eggs and babies develope is completely fascinating so I know the feeling. Keep up the good work :)

Offline Littlefish

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2017, 11:45:55 AM »
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@fruitbat fantastic to get an update on your tank. So many babies, and I bet they are adorable.  ;D

Offline fruitbat

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2017, 12:18:31 PM »
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hi guys, we now have issac our second little yellow rabbit snail baby, everything fine , we do lose the odd fish now and again but overall very happy with upgrading to bigger tank... worst thing is we have too many babies and have to pick which have to go back to the shop !

Offline Fishywishy

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2017, 11:29:33 AM »
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 :wave:This article has been a fascinating read as I intend doing something similar - actually setting up an additional tank 30L for a Betta and a few cardinals.

My main tank is a 240 and I have been running the filter from the small one in it for a week, although it's been hanging in the tank for months.

My idea is to transfer an amount of substrate to the new tank together with some live plants with some ammano shrimp  (I've got loads ). Would I be safe to transfer some cardinals immediately and then carry out some water checks- if I don't how will the bacteria thrive? Will defer adding a Betta until satisfied all settled.

Many thanks in anticipation of your advice.

Offline Sue

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #40 on: March 20, 2017, 11:49:12 AM »
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If it would be possible, the best way to get bacteria in the new filter would be to transfer some media from the 240 litre's filter to the 30 litre's filter, and put the media from the 30 litre filter into the hole left in the 240 filter. The problem with just setting up a second filter is there is nothing to make the bacteria move into the new filter in any great numbers.

Moving substrate will help. There are many micro-organisms other than the filter bacteria which live in the substrate so seeding them with 'old' substrate will get them off to a flying start as well. The biofilm on any decor you transfer will hold a host of bacteria too.
And of course live plants use ammonia as fertiliser so they help as well.

Moving the cardinals across first is fine, though once you add the betta that will be quite a big addition in terms of bioload so you would need to monitor ammonia and nitrite twice - first after moving the cardinals and then again after adding the betta.

Cardinals might or might not work with a betta. They are compatible with the higher temperature required by bettas but they may nip the betta's tail. Or the betta might turn out to be on the aggressive side - there is no way to tell from the behaviour in the shop - but if the cardinals and betta don't get on, you do have the option of moving the cardinals back to the bigger tank.

Offline Fishywishy

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2017, 12:32:27 PM »
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Thanks Sue that's very helpful. Will do as you suggest re filter.

Do you have any suggestions re other compatible fish with a Betta? Didn't really want to leave it on it's own!

Offline Sue

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2017, 12:46:01 PM »
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To be honest bettas are better (sorry!) on their own. They are solitary fish and don't need - or want - tank mates. I have a 26 litre tank with just a betta and a nerite snail.

The other problem is finding fish that will be happy in a 30 litre tank. For example, cardinal tetras need a tank at least 60 cm long, and most 30 litre tanks are smaller than that.
The fish that would be happy in 30 litres are all small which could trigger the "food!!!" instinct in a betta. Maybe they'd be too big to actually eat but the betta chasing them trying to eat them would stress such small fish.


The other alternative would be not get a betta and get some small fish - for example endlers (males only) if the water is hard, or one of the Boraras species if the water is soft.

Offline Fishywishy

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #43 on: March 20, 2017, 12:58:31 PM »
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Thanks for the advice Sue

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #44 on: March 25, 2017, 02:16:51 PM »
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Hi again Sue

Set up tank on Tuesday as we agreed and put 3 small Corys in with a few shrimp.

Feeding very lightly ie 1/2 wafer and a few grains of micro pellets, and removing uneaten wafer.

Readings
22/3 TAN 0.25  (API), NO2 0.03 (Nutrafin), NO3 n/r (Nutrafin)
23/3 TAN 0.25, NO2 0.05, NO3 n/r
24/3 TAN 0.2, NO2 0.2, NO3 20
25/3 TAN 0.35, NO2 0.2, NO3 10

Am I ok here? Don't want to hurt the fish.

Regards, John

Offline Sue

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2017, 02:29:57 PM »
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Nitrite is getting a bit on the high side, I would do a water change to get it down as low as possible. It is currently about as high as you should let it get so a water change will stop it getting higher - unless it creeps back up again, in which case do another water change.

Ammonia is also a bit high but that is easily monitored using an ammonia/ammonium calculator such as this https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php
On the left side, leave the first box as it is, set salinity to zero then add the data for your tank in the rest of the boxes and click calculate. You want the number in the lower box on the right side.
If that number is less than 0.02, it is fine. More than 0.02 and you need to do a water change.


Wehther or not a water change is needed means looking at both the number from that ammonia calcualtor and the nitrite reading. If the ammonia-calculator number is above 0.02, do a water change. if nitrite is approaching 0.25, do a water change.


And watch the shrimp. If they are unhappy they will try to climb out of the tank up cables etc

Offline Fishywishy

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #46 on: March 25, 2017, 02:46:44 PM »
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Thanks Sue, I'll get on it.

John

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #47 on: March 25, 2017, 04:05:42 PM »
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Just to check please Sue, but as my API kit measures TAN should I be changing box 1 of the calculator to NH-N (NH3-N +HN4-N) ?
Thanks John

Offline Sue

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #48 on: March 25, 2017, 04:15:14 PM »
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No, leave it set as NH (NH3 + NH4). This measures ammonia/ammonium as nitrogen plus hydrogen - N plus H - which is what our home test kits do. The other entry is for when the measurement is for just the nitrogen (N) part of ammonia and ammonium.

Offline Fishywishy

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Re: 60 l to 200 l tank change
« Reply #49 on: March 25, 2017, 05:10:46 PM »
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OK, thanks for clarification :)

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