1 Week Fishless Cycle With Mature Media Then Fish-in Recommendations

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Offline Bazza2000

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I've been looking around the forums to try and see if anyone is doing similar, but doesn't appear so.  My plan (not the best I know so please give minimal critcism  :-[ ) is to run my tank for a week with no fish and then get a few as its for the kids birthdays so can't really make them wait the 1-2 months for a full cycle.

I've been chatting with @Littlefish who has kindly agreed to donate some mature media when the time is right and I'm just setting up my plan of attack to start this weekend. I also have a bottle of "Fluval cycle biological enhancer" to put in over the 1st few days (I know these products don't get the best wrap but thought as I have it, it can't do any harm)

Current plan:

Saturday - Wash Substrate, tank decorations etc and setup tank with filter, heater, substrate, decorations, water (with tap safe) and let it run for 24 hours to get water to temp and make sure everything is running as expected.
I'll take  water readings for everything immediately and then after 24 hours and then on a regular frequency as the cycle progresses.

Sunday/Monday - Visit LFS and pick some Elodea plants to help with the cycle and maybe some surface plants - duck weed seems to be recommended although there does appear to be some bad reports too, any advice?  Whilst I'm there, going to have a look at the local stock and based on my community fish selections see whats available and compatible.

At this point I know I need to get some ammonia in the tank so advice on the best course of action here would be appreciated.  I can't get seeded media ( thanks again @Littlefish) until Tuesday due to logistics of not being around to receive and install until then, so at this point I'm a little stuck as to the best way to move forward, do I need to get some ammonia to add during the initial week that I'll have no fish?  or could I just drop in some fish food and let it rot and produce ammonia that way (not too sure how long it takes to rot?)

Tuesday - Friday - Mature media arrives and installed, then looking for advice really on the best course of action from here. Assuming more ammonia at some point + more readings.

2nd Saturday - up to 90% water change and get 3 or 4 of the hardy fish from my Community Selection and then introduce the fish gradually to the tank, allowing time for water temperature to equalise and introduce a bit of tank water to the bag over several minutes to give them time to acclimatise.

2nd Saturday onwards - regular measurements and water changes as required to keep the levels down.

Please feel free to tear my plan apart, that's my reason for putting it up here in the 1st place TBH.  The only part that can't change is adding the fish on the 2nd Saturday, earlier is fine, but can't be any later.  ( I know, hit me with the beating stick  :vcross: for being cruel to fish, but I'll be on the ball with water monitoring and as soon as levels rise I'll be doing immediate water changes to help them along the way.  :fishy1: )

Thanks again for all the advice so far.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: 1 week Fishless cycle with mature media then Fish-in recommendations
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2018, 01:54:08 PM »
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What filter are you getting for the tank? Just asking to work out what type and volume of filter media it will take.
I understand the issue with birthdays, and it would be so wonderful for you to be able to introduce fish at that time.

In order to minimise any potential damage to the fish, the more mature media we can get into the filter, the better. I have a lot of mature media available, from several internal and external filters.

@Sue if I can get enough mature media to Bazza to fill around 50% of the filter, would it be possible to add some ammonia to boost bacteria numbers Tuesday to Friday, water change Saturday morning, add birthday fish later in the day.

As a slight aside, I thought I'd post this as it made me chuckle...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/263880523841
It's the first time I've noticed someone advertising this stuff as "suitable for fishless aquarium cycling"

Offline Sue

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Re: 1 week Fishless cycle with mature media then Fish-in recommendations
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2018, 02:27:21 PM »
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Just a couple of comments:

Adding ammonia will keep the mature media fed till the fish arrive, but you must remove every trace before putting the fish in.
Our town has a small family run DIY shop which sells Kleen Off ammonia. But read the label as there are several products in the Kleen Off range and I once heard of someone trying to cycle with oven cleaner  :o

Throw the Fluval product away and get Tetra Safe Start.
When these cycling products were first invented they based the formulation on what worked in sewage treatment where both ammonia and nitrite are quite high. Although they managed to use a species of ammonia eating bacteria that work in fish tanks, they chose a nitrite eater which didn't because those bacteria need high levels of nitrite to survive and there are only low levels in a fish tank - once cycled the level is so low our test kits can't measure it.
Then a chap working for a company called Marineland did some research and discovered which bacteria the nitrite eaters in fish tanks actually are. Marineland and the chap who made the discovery patented or copyrighted (whichever is the correct term) the use of these bacteria. The chap left Marineland and set up his own company and because he was named on the patent/copyright he could make a product with the correct nitrite eaters. This is Dr Tim's One & Only which is hard to get in the UK. Marineland was taken over by Tetra, and they rebranded the Marineland product as Safe Start, which still uses the correct nitrite eaters.
Tetra Safe Start is sold widely in the UK - just make sure the bottle is still in date.



I would set up the tank and let it run to check all the equipment works, get the plants, then add the mature media when it arrives.

Since you really do want to do a fish-in cycle, get the barbs first.




Duck weed is not sold at fish shops, it is an unwanted weed for most people. But if you can cope with having a 'weed' it will do a good job of taking up ammonia. You may find some shops that have it in their tanks; if you find some, ask for it. The reason it is a weed is because it grows very fast and takes over. But this is what you need during a fish-in cycle. Once you have all your fish you can net it out and throw it away, it will have done its job. if you can't find it in a shop, there are people on Ebay selling it.
Alternatively, buy another floating plant. I used to have Salvinia which I bought on Ebay but it all died off a few years ago during a very hot spell when condensation from the lid dripped on it and rotted the leaves. This applies to all floating plants with furry leaves such as Amazon frogbit and water lettuce. Duckweed does not have furry leaves, and neither does water sprite if you can find that. Water sprite can also be grown rooted in the substrate. And elodea can be left floating as well as being planted.

Long term, the fish you are thinking about do not like bright light as they come from rivers with overhanging trees. They will appreciate whichever floating plant you get.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: 1 week Fishless cycle with mature media then Fish-in recommendations
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2018, 02:38:09 PM »
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I've just gone back to the other thread to check tank size. As soon as we know what filter is being used I think I may be able to provide all the mature media. If so, then at least it will give the fish the equivalent to a newly cycled tank. That should be a bit safer for them.

Offline fcmf

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Re: 1 week Fishless cycle with mature media then Fish-in recommendations
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2018, 02:39:57 PM »
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This is Dr Tim's One & Only which is hard to get in the UK.
Ah, you've reminded me - I stumbled across it for the first time the other day while looking for something else at this website https://www.realaquatics.co.uk/ which I don't actually recall seeing before.

Offline Sue

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Re: 1 week Fishless cycle with mature media then Fish-in recommendations
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2018, 02:49:04 PM »
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I just had a look and unless I missed it they only have the marine version of One & Only. But they do sell that company's ammonium chloride for cycling. That's a form of ammonia.

Offline fcmf

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Re: 1 week Fishless cycle with mature media then Fish-in recommendations
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2018, 03:11:20 PM »
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Offline Bazza2000

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Re: 1 week Fishless cycle with mature media then Fish-in recommendations
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2018, 03:21:04 PM »
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I've just gone back to the other thread to check tank size. As soon as we know what filter is being used I think I may be able to provide all the mature media. If so, then at least it will give the fish the equivalent to a newly cycled tank. That should be a bit safer for them.

Hi, Filter specs are here: http://ciano.pt/en/produto/emotions-pro-80/

There are also some details next to the photos attached to this post.  There is 1 long full height square sponge and then 4 compartments for other elements I'm not too sure what they're for, but I did notice 4 packets of something before I left for holiday.  Can check more when I get back on Saturday.

Efficient and functional biological filtration
The aquarium is equipped with a CFBIO150 Ciano® biological filtration system, with more filtration power due to its horizontal filtration (filter masses). The filter is equipped with a high performance motor 260 l / h, an efficient 150W heater and the consumables (2 Water Clear “M”, 2 Bio-Bact “M” and 1 FOAM “L”), for a chemical filtration, biological and mechanical. Optionally, you can attach a fully immersible digital thermometer with integrated sensor.

Equipment Included
1 Biological filter CFBIO150 Ciano®;

1 LED lighting system CLE80 Ciano® (24W – 38VDC);

1 Converter LED(27 - 40VDC);

1 Water Pump 260 l/h;

1 Heater 150W;

2 Doses WATER CLEAR “M” Ciano®;

2 Doses BIO-BACT “M” Ciano®;

1 FOAM “L” 30PPI Ciano®;




Offline Bazza2000

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Re: 1 week Fishless cycle with mature media then Fish-in recommendations
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2018, 03:35:11 PM »
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Just to confirm, are you saying it would be better to get Dr Tim's or Tetra Safe Start? and do you have a link to the correct ammonia product? Ta

Offline Sue

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Re: 1 week Fishless cycle with mature media then Fish-in recommendations
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2018, 03:52:31 PM »
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fcmf's link is to the correct Dr Tim's One & Only. My excuse for not seeing it is that I have rotten cold and having to stop reading to sneeze etc.  ::)

Yes, the product in fcmf's link is Dr Tims, and Tetra Safe Start is available at Pets@Home https://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/pets/tetra-safestart-50ml as well as smaller shops, Amazon & Ebay.

Dr Tim's ammonium chloride https://www.realaquatics.co.uk/drtim-s-ammonium-chloride-solution-for-fishless-cycling-60ml.html They also have an Ebay shop.

But also look on Ebay & Amazon for ammonia and look for the KleenOff Multi Purpose Household Ammonia. A lot of other brands contain detergent and are no use.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: 1 week Fishless cycle with mature media then Fish-in recommendations
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2018, 04:52:09 PM »
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Thanks for the links to the tank & filter information.
I can send mature sponge media big enough for that filter.
Looking at information on replacement parts, it says to replace the foam every 90 days - DO NOT DO THIS, as you will be throwing out the bacteria and essentially starting your tanks cycle from scratch. Foam/sponge just needs to be gently rinsed in used tank water during routine maintenance.

Offline Bazza2000

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Re: 1 week Fishless cycle with mature media then Fish-in recommendations
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2018, 04:59:20 PM »
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Fab! Really appreciated!
And yep, read all the forum posts on washing filter in tank water and refitting.
One question, do I replace the main long sponge with your media or 1 to 4 of the smaller ones? Do I need to use the 1 to 4 smaller ones at all?

Offline Littlefish

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Re: 1 week Fishless cycle with mature media then Fish-in recommendations
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2018, 05:24:57 PM »
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Replace the long sponge with the sponge that I send. You may need to trim to size, as my sponges are more square, but I'll check the measurements of the sponge for your filter and make sure you get enough.
Looking at the information available for your filter, the 4 white things are 2 x water clear cartridges, and 2 x Bio-bact cartridges.
I don't know anything about this filter, so I'm only going on what it says on their site.
The water clear cartridges are described as chemical filtration, to keep the water clear, reduce algae, etc. According to another site it is activated carbon, and has to be removed when using medication.
The Bio-bact is described as biological filtration, and says it is "an excellent habitat for nitrifying bacteria". Again, it says to remove these cartridges if using medication.

If a filter comes with activated carbon it is common to remove it, and fill the space with more sponge, then just keep the carbon for removing any left over medication after a water change when a medication regime has been completed.
If any of the others have any experience with these filters or cartridges please let us know if they are surplus to requirements, or if we could go with more sponge. thanks.  :)

Offline Bazza2000

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Re: 1 week Fishless cycle with mature media then Fish-in recommendations
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2018, 06:12:22 PM »
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Great, thanks, I'll get the exact measurements of the long sponge when I get home on Saturday and post.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: 1 week Fishless cycle with mature media then Fish-in recommendations
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2018, 06:29:41 PM »
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That would be really helpful, thanks.  :)

Offline Bazza2000

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Re: 1 week Fishless cycle with mature media then Fish-in recommendations
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2018, 06:33:05 PM »
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Least I can do  ;D

Offline Matt

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Re: 1 week Fishless cycle with mature media then Fish-in recommendations
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2018, 07:42:54 PM »
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Sue you are a genius with these thivs but just wondering about your choice of the barbs for the first fish... I have never kept barbs but I know harlequins are incredibly hardy having been through a fish in cycle with me before I knew any of this stuff.  What do you think?

Offline Sue

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Re: 1 week Fishless cycle with mature media then Fish-in recommendations
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2018, 08:20:08 PM »
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I have never had actual harlequins, just Espe's rasboras, but I have had cherry barbs. 3 of the rasboras died within a few weeks, but the barbs proved very hardy until the whitespot outbreak. I don't know if it was the whitespot, the raised temp for weeks, or the attempts find a medication that was effective on this strain of whitespot, but they all died, having been very healthy fish up to that point.
Of course harlequins might be hardier than Espeis rasboras.

If you have had harlies and found them to be hardy, then either those or cherry barbs for the first fish. But whichever are chosen, the rest of the shoal should be added before starting a second speciees.

Offline Matt

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Re: 1 week Fishless cycle with mature media then Fish-in recommendations
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2018, 08:25:37 PM »
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One way to approach it would be which are smaller in the shop on the day... smaller fish = less waste

Offline Bazza2000

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Re: 1 week Fishless cycle with mature media then Fish-in recommendations
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2018, 08:50:45 PM »
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Started my initial fishless cycle Saturday, added ammonia yesterday up to 3ppm, got some cloudy water today which I suppose is to be expected, @Littlefish (thanks again) has kindly posted some mature media which should arrive tomorrow and I'll get that straight in.  I have a query about whether to replace the current sponge I have or to add the mature media into a 2nd compartment which is available with my system as shown:



Would it matter if I had 2 sponges in the filter i.e. would it cause issues with circulation or cause the pump to work harder than normal?  Or would it just be easier to do a straight swap?

The thinking around having 2 is that I could always replace 1 after a healthy lifetime (assuming years) and leave 1 in, and then alternate if that makes sense? How does everyone else do it?

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