Author Topic: 1 week Fishless cycle with mature media then Fish-in recommendations (Read 16988 times) 119 replies

Bazza2000 · « **on:** August 29, 2018, 01:15:07 PM »

I've been looking around the forums to try and see if anyone is doing similar, but doesn't appear so. My plan (not the best I know so please give minimal critcism

) is to run my tank for a week with no fish and then get a few as its for the kids birthdays so can't really make them wait the 1-2 months for a full cycle.

I've been chatting with @Littlefish who has kindly agreed to donate some mature media when the time is right and I'm just setting up my plan of attack to start this weekend. I also have a bottle of "Fluval cycle biological enhancer" to put in over the 1st few days (I know these products don't get the best wrap but thought as I have it, it can't do any harm)

Current plan:

Saturday - Wash Substrate, tank decorations etc and setup tank with filter, heater, substrate, decorations, water (with tap safe) and let it run for 24 hours to get water to temp and make sure everything is running as expected.
I'll take water readings for everything immediately and then after 24 hours and then on a regular frequency as the cycle progresses.

Sunday/Monday - Visit LFS and pick some Elodea plants to help with the cycle and maybe some surface plants - duck weed seems to be recommended although there does appear to be some bad reports too, any advice? Whilst I'm there, going to have a look at the local stock and based on my community fish selections see whats available and compatible.

At this point I know I need to get some ammonia in the tank so advice on the best course of action here would be appreciated. I can't get seeded media ( thanks again @Littlefish) until Tuesday due to logistics of not being around to receive and install until then, so at this point I'm a little stuck as to the best way to move forward, do I need to get some ammonia to add during the initial week that I'll have no fish? or could I just drop in some fish food and let it rot and produce ammonia that way (not too sure how long it takes to rot?)

Tuesday - Friday - Mature media arrives and installed, then looking for advice really on the best course of action from here. Assuming more ammonia at some point + more readings.

2nd Saturday - up to 90% water change and get 3 or 4 of the hardy fish from my Community Selection and then introduce the fish gradually to the tank, allowing time for water temperature to equalise and introduce a bit of tank water to the bag over several minutes to give them time to acclimatise.

2nd Saturday onwards - regular measurements and water changes as required to keep the levels down.

Please feel free to tear my plan apart, that's my reason for putting it up here in the 1st place TBH. The only part that can't change is adding the fish on the 2nd Saturday, earlier is fine, but can't be any later. ( I know, hit me with the beating stick

for being cruel to fish, but I'll be on the ball with water monitoring and as soon as levels rise I'll be doing immediate water changes to help them along the way.

)

Thanks again for all the advice so far.

Littlefish · « **Reply #40 on:** September 06, 2018, 02:01:22 PM »

Fingers crossed.

Bazza2000 · « **Reply #41 on:** September 06, 2018, 04:01:56 PM »

Ok, we are now at 2ppm, the API kit only measure 2 or 4ppm so thought best to keep it lower that 4 so looks good on 2ppm, will monitor over the next 24 hours.

Bazza2000 · « **Reply #42 on:** September 07, 2018, 11:43:58 PM »

Near at the end of my 1st week fishless/fish-in cycle and it appears our attempts at fast tracking my cycle have failed. Whilst there were promising signs middle of the week once I'd added the mature media (thanks again @Littlefish ) and tetra safe start, it appears I now have no bacteria and I'm effectively 1 week into a fish-in cycle. I've put the most recent Ammonia drop down to the plants helping out.
My fish-in cycle will start on Sunday (4 x Cherry Barbs) after I do a major water change tomorrow to get the ammonia down to safe levels. Just wanted to thank everyone for the fantastic advice and help along the way up to now. I'm kinda looking forward to the challenge of keeping the fish as safe as I can during the fish-in cycle. I'll keep you updated with my progress.

Littlefish · « **Reply #43 on:** September 08, 2018, 07:59:15 AM »

Sorry to hear that the mature media hasn't worked @Bazza2000
Bummer.

Bazza2000 · « **Reply #44 on:** September 08, 2018, 08:05:16 AM »

Thanks @Littlefish, appreciate your efforts in getting it over to me, much appreciated, couldn't be helped.

Bazza2000 · « **Reply #45 on:** September 08, 2018, 08:08:47 AM »

Not too sure if this is the right thread, but I've noticed my plants don't seem as healthy as they used to be, some algae by the looks of it on some and the Elodia has strands hanging from some of the leaves. Anyone seen this before?

Littlefish · « **Reply #46 on:** September 08, 2018, 08:10:11 AM »

Sometimes these things happen.

Matt · « **Reply #47 on:** September 08, 2018, 08:36:51 AM »

The second plant is dying because it is not an aquatic plant!! It cannot survive in aquatic conditions. Sorry but you have been miss sold this. Get rid of it before it rots and destroys your water quality!

I don't think elodia grows roots, but is that what they look like?

Matt · « **Reply #48 on:** September 08, 2018, 08:39:10 AM »

Right... done a bit of research on the elodia. Yep they are roots

Littlefish · « **Reply #49 on:** September 08, 2018, 08:56:41 AM »

I've seen a lot of places selling plants that are not truly aquatic in their bunched plants tank.
If it's any consolation @Bazza2000 I have previously bought exactly the same plant that you have, and ended up throwing it away. I'd suggest spending a little bit more money and purchasing the potted aquatic plants, which also come with labels containing planting information which you can double check online.
As for the elodea, that can also be used as a floating plant, and grows roots at fairly random places along the length. Good to see yours are rooting.

Sue · « **Reply #50 on:** September 08, 2018, 09:24:04 AM »

Your chart does not show the cycle has been a failure

Ammonia hardly rose after the last 3 ppm addition, and nitrite never got very high. Had there been no ammonia eating bacteria, the ammonia reading would have stayed constant, but in fact it did drop to zero albeit in 48 hours rather than 24. Had there been no nitrite eaters, once the ammonia level dropped the nitrite reading would have shot up off the scale and stayed there.
You do have a lot of bacteria, just not enough for a fully stocked tank. Take it slowly, one batch of fish at a time, and test ammonia and nitrite every day. If either show up, do a water change. When you've had 7 days of double zeros, get the next batch of fish.
Maybe you can't have a fully stocked tank right away, but you can have some fish now

Just do a big water change to remove all the ammonia and nitrite left in the water.

And ignore nitrate. This tester is the least accurate, and you do have live plants.

The non-aquatic plant will grow nicely as a house plant!

Bazza2000 · « **Reply #51 on:** September 08, 2018, 10:26:49 AM »

Thanks for the info @Matt and @Littlefish , I'll take it back to the shop and let them know, I was planning on buying the Cherry Barb's there tomorrow, so will see what their response is to the non-aquatic plant issue. Shame, I kind of liked the look of them

Sue · « **Reply #52 on:** September 08, 2018, 10:39:58 AM »

When you get the barbs, get more than 4. Get the total number you want. There should be enough bacteria for a whole shoal of cherry barbs. It's not as if you are doing a fish-in cycle from scratch, you do have a good number of bacteria.
I would be a bit concerned that if you get them in two batches, the first batch may not accept the second. With barbs so many species have a hierarchy within the shoal, and adding more means they have to sort out the hierarchy all over again = more nipping and squabbling.

Bazza2000 · « **Reply #53 on:** September 08, 2018, 10:59:27 AM »

Thanks @Sue, when you say I have enough Bacteria, do you mean because the Ammonia is dropping albeit slowly so therefore, there must be some? Also, I was basing my figure on the fish stocking calculation of "1 inch of fish for every 5 American gallons (19 litres) of tank water" Cherry Barb adult size is 50mm = approx 2 inches
So, I have

130L tank / 19 litres = 6.84 inches

With each Cherry Barb at 2 inches approx (adult size) that gives me 3.42 Cherries. Thought I was pushing it with 4 TBH.

Does this look right, or could I add more?

Sue · « **Reply #54 on:** September 08, 2018, 11:05:55 AM »

Yes, because the ammonia dropped, and nitrite did not go off the scale as the ammonia dropped you do have some bacteria. There should be enough to cope with the first shoal. Since you do have some bacteria you can ignore that 1 inch per 5 galls, that is for when the fish are added with no bacteria in the tank.

Wasn't it you who used the Tetra Safe Start? If you did and there's some left it won't hurt to keep on using it. A belt and braces approach

Bazza2000 · « **Reply #55 on:** September 08, 2018, 11:17:28 AM »

Ah, ok, cool. Yes it was me who used the tetra safe start, and to be honest, I had an increase of nitrite and nitrate immediately after adding, I then added the mature media and took out about 50% of my original media, since then its dropped back to 0, so it definitely did some good and I do have some left, so I'm planning on doing a major water change today, replace my dodgy plant and I'll add in the tap safe and another dose of tetra safe start and leave it until tomorrow afternoon to stabilise until I add the Cherries.
So based on seriouslyfish.com the Cherry Barb recommendation is 6-10 in a shoal, so, as I want to stock with as many varieties as I can over time, would 6 be a better number to start? Don't want to go the whole 10 or more as that may restrict my total stock further down the line.

Sue · « **Reply #56 on:** September 08, 2018, 01:20:39 PM »

6 is the minimum, I would go for either 3 males, 3 females or 2 males, 4 females. 8 would be better, 4/4 or 3/5 males:females.

It is an observation that most people when they first start in the hobby go for minimum numbers of lots of species. Me included. But as the years pass, the tendency is for fewer species, but lots of each species. Again, I did that

In 180 litres I have just 2 shoaling species but started with 18 of each.

Bazza2000 · « **Reply #57 on:** September 08, 2018, 03:06:50 PM »

ok, thanks, I'll go with 4/4 or 3/5 M/F, I assume the shop will know which one is which

I've just finished a 90% water change and ammonia has dropped to pretty much 0. Added in the remains of my Tetra Safe Start 108ml for 130L tank and now letting things stabilise and temperature get back to normal for 24 hours before the hard work begins

Sue · « **Reply #58 on:** September 08, 2018, 03:37:00 PM »

Never trust a shop. Even the best ones can't know everything.

Cherry barb males are red, females are paler, pale orange with dark brown markings. Study the photos here http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/puntius-titteya/ (ignore the 'super red strain' photos)

Bazza2000 · « **Reply #59 on:** September 09, 2018, 03:57:52 PM »

All clear on the final full suite water sample tests and we now have 8 Cherry Barbs 4M/4F (I think anyway, thanks for the advice @Sue) 30 mins in the bag acclimatising and a futher 10-15 with some tank water and then released to the wild, well ok, my tank which is just as close!

Seem to be settling in well and surprisingly enjoying swimming against the strong current from the pump. Few of them having a "sniff" around the ship wreck and a couple on the starfish. Not going to feed them today, but looking for some advice on the best feeding times, and also how much, I've heard the fishes eye is the same size as its stomach, so only an "eye's" worth for each fish which doesn't really equate to the "pinch" that most sites recommend. Is this literally an eye's worth of wafer for each fish? By the looks of some of the wafers, that would be about 2 wafers for all of them? Once per day?

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1 Week Fishless Cycle With Mature Media Then Fish-in Recommendations

1 Week Fishless Cycle With Mature Media Then Fish-in Recommendations

Author Topic: 1 week Fishless cycle with mature media then Fish-in recommendations (Read 16988 times) 119 replies

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