Author Topic: 1 week Fishless cycle with mature media then Fish-in recommendations (Read 17278 times) 119 replies

Bazza2000 · « **on:** August 29, 2018, 01:15:07 PM »

I've been looking around the forums to try and see if anyone is doing similar, but doesn't appear so. My plan (not the best I know so please give minimal critcism

) is to run my tank for a week with no fish and then get a few as its for the kids birthdays so can't really make them wait the 1-2 months for a full cycle.

I've been chatting with @Littlefish who has kindly agreed to donate some mature media when the time is right and I'm just setting up my plan of attack to start this weekend. I also have a bottle of "Fluval cycle biological enhancer" to put in over the 1st few days (I know these products don't get the best wrap but thought as I have it, it can't do any harm)

Current plan:

Saturday - Wash Substrate, tank decorations etc and setup tank with filter, heater, substrate, decorations, water (with tap safe) and let it run for 24 hours to get water to temp and make sure everything is running as expected.
I'll take water readings for everything immediately and then after 24 hours and then on a regular frequency as the cycle progresses.

Sunday/Monday - Visit LFS and pick some Elodea plants to help with the cycle and maybe some surface plants - duck weed seems to be recommended although there does appear to be some bad reports too, any advice? Whilst I'm there, going to have a look at the local stock and based on my community fish selections see whats available and compatible.

At this point I know I need to get some ammonia in the tank so advice on the best course of action here would be appreciated. I can't get seeded media ( thanks again @Littlefish) until Tuesday due to logistics of not being around to receive and install until then, so at this point I'm a little stuck as to the best way to move forward, do I need to get some ammonia to add during the initial week that I'll have no fish? or could I just drop in some fish food and let it rot and produce ammonia that way (not too sure how long it takes to rot?)

Tuesday - Friday - Mature media arrives and installed, then looking for advice really on the best course of action from here. Assuming more ammonia at some point + more readings.

2nd Saturday - up to 90% water change and get 3 or 4 of the hardy fish from my Community Selection and then introduce the fish gradually to the tank, allowing time for water temperature to equalise and introduce a bit of tank water to the bag over several minutes to give them time to acclimatise.

2nd Saturday onwards - regular measurements and water changes as required to keep the levels down.

Please feel free to tear my plan apart, that's my reason for putting it up here in the 1st place TBH. The only part that can't change is adding the fish on the 2nd Saturday, earlier is fine, but can't be any later. ( I know, hit me with the beating stick

for being cruel to fish, but I'll be on the ball with water monitoring and as soon as levels rise I'll be doing immediate water changes to help them along the way.

)

Thanks again for all the advice so far.

Sue · « **Reply #20 on:** September 03, 2018, 08:58:32 PM »

Can you tell us exactly what the various media are please? I can recognise the sponge, but what are the white blocks on the left of the sponge, and in the box at the bottom of the compartment on the extreme left?

Usually it is better to leave out any carbon and replace that with sponge. Or replace the existing sponge with Littlefish's sponge. It is considered better to have mature media early in the direction of water flow if at all possible; that way any bacteria/biofilm that becomes loose gets washed into other media and helps start it to grow there.

Bazza2000 · « **Reply #21 on:** September 03, 2018, 09:31:04 PM »

Hi Sue, the white blocks are according to the manual 2 Doses of Water Clear "M" and 2 Doses of BIO-BACT "M", I've not added them in yet as I'd seen advise elsewhere to leave them out, so effectively the 4 white block section is empty at the moment, the bottom left is the pump and the tube on the right is the heater.

Sue · « **Reply #22 on:** September 03, 2018, 09:54:42 PM »

Littlefish's media can go in the space where the white blocks are supposed to go; or cut up both her sponge and your sponge and put bits of both in each section. You would need to cut them lengthways because there should be no gaps in the direction of water flow - side to side - or the water will go through the gaps rather than through the sponges.

Bazza2000 · « **Reply #23 on:** September 03, 2018, 10:00:04 PM »

Ah, good point about the lack of gaps, didn't think of that, thanks again Sue (the fountain of all fish knowledge!)

Littlefish · « **Reply #24 on:** September 04, 2018, 07:24:19 AM »

The mature media I have sent is as follows:-
2 x complete inner sponges from Superfish Aquaflow 200 filters, with the carbon replaced with ceramic media, and some extra squares of sponge. The Superfish sponges are approximately 6cm x 6cm, with a length of around 9cm. When I got them I removed the carbon and replaced it with the ceramic media. Both of these together came to less than 24cm (length required to replace existing sponge), so I've also included several squares of sponge to make up the total length, to make sure there were no gaps in the sponge chamber.
I would suggest using at least one of these inner sponges in its entirety, perhaps cut your sponge to a length of 15cm (ish, check what you need before cutting, and cut a bit bigger so you have to squeeze the sponge in to avoid gaps) to fill the rest of that space. I'd suggest that you use the second mature sponge in its entirety to replace the carbon cubes, and pieces of the other sponge to plug any gaps between the other cubes.
There is a lot of mature media that should reach you today, and if you can get it all into your filter then there is a very strong possibility that your filter could be able to process 3ppm ammonia within 24 hours, with a bit of luck.

Littlefish · « **Reply #25 on:** September 04, 2018, 07:36:43 AM »

I've noticed that your second filter chamber is narrower than the first, so you wouldn't be able to use an entire mature sponge to replace the carbon cubes as the sponge would be too big. If you cut the sponge length-ways it would probably fit. You would lose the ceramic media, but that wouldn't be the end of the world.
The two complete inners are "more mature", and have come from more heavily stocked tanks than the off-cuts of sponge, so use as much of the two oblong sponges as possible, even if you have to cut one up.

Bazza2000 · « **Reply #26 on:** September 04, 2018, 08:48:06 AM »

Yeah, I'll take my sponge and hack it to make it fit and then put your media in where it came from so it hits the water 1st and hopefully passes some of the good bacteria through onto my original sponge.

Littlefish · « **Reply #27 on:** September 04, 2018, 01:14:50 PM »

Keep us posted - I hope it all goes well.

Bazza2000 · « **Reply #28 on:** September 04, 2018, 01:19:47 PM »

Will do, just keeping an eye out for the posty, normally comes mid afternoon!

Bazza2000 · « **Reply #29 on:** September 04, 2018, 06:51:26 PM »

New media has arrived and been installed (thanks again @Littlefish - packaging was fantastic!!) I managed to install about half of my original sponge in the separate compartment too so hopefully not too much disruption.

One things I've noticed on the glass (this was before the new media was installed) was a small something, looks like a snail to me, but wanted some advice, it may have arrived on the plants I put in over the weekend.

Anyone got any idea what it is, and is it safe to leave in?

Sue · « **Reply #30 on:** September 04, 2018, 07:16:16 PM »

It's a snail

I can't tell from the photo but the two most common 'pest' snails are tiny ramshorns and physids - the latter are referred to as pond, bladder, tadpole and pest snails. Google should find some images for you to compare. And yes, it did arrive with your plants, either as a snail or an egg.

They are not bad. I know a lot of people will do everything they can to eradicate every last snail but they are actually an important part of a tank's ecosystem. They are only a problem when they take over, and the main reason they take over is because they have a lot of food - uneaten fish food. As long as you don't over feed the fish, once you have some, their numbers should be kept low. They will eat algae and dying plants so even if they don't get even a tiny spec of fish food they will still find enough to eat.
Fish do not need as much food as you'd think. Mammals use a lot of what they eat just maintaining body temperature. Fish don't do this, their body temp is regulated by water temp so their need for food, weight for weight, is less than mammals. As a very rough guide, a fish's stomach is the same size as its eye. Feed the fish as much food as is equivalent to one eye per fish

I have tiny ramshorns and physids that came free with plants, and I have bought malaysian trumpet snails and nerite snails for my tanks.

Bazza2000 · « **Reply #31 on:** September 04, 2018, 07:20:46 PM »

I've also taken reading over the past few days (pre-mature media installation) to see how things where getting on with a few strange results.

Bazza2000 · « **Reply #32 on:** September 04, 2018, 07:23:12 PM »

Quote from: Sue on September 04, 2018, 07:16:16 PM

It's a snail

I can't tell from the photo but the two most common 'pest' snails are tiny ramshorns and physids - the latter are referred to as pond, bladder, tadpole and pest snails. Google should find some images for you to compare. And yes, it did arrive with your plants, either as a snail or an egg.

They are not bad. I know a lot of people will do everything they can to eradicate every last snail but they are actually an important part of a tank's ecosystem. They are only a problem when they take over, and the main reason they take over is because they have a lot of food - uneaten fish food. As long as you don't over feed the fish, once you have some, their numbers should be kept low. They will eat algae and dying plants so even if they don't get even a tiny spec of fish food they will still find enough to eat.
Fish do not need as much food as you'd think. Mammals use a lot of what they eat just maintaining body temperature. Fish don't do this, their body temp is regulated by water temp so their need for food, weight for weight, is less than mammals. As a very rough guide, a fish's stomach is the same size as its eye. Feed the fish as much food as is equivalent to one eye per fish

I have tiny ramshorns and physids that came free with plants, and I have bought malaysian trumpet snails and nerite snails for my tanks.

Thanks Sue, I'll leave the little blighter for now, he is tiny though, I thought it was spec of dust!

Sue · « **Reply #33 on:** September 04, 2018, 07:30:42 PM »

Your graph is interesting. It would appear that the Safe Start has had an effect, albeit a small one so far. The ammonia reading fell slightly and nitrite appeared shortly after adding the Safe Start.

Don't take too much notice of nitrate. It is very difficult to measure accurately at home. My younger, son who used to work as an analyst for a water testing company, is highly amused by our nitrate testers. Part of the problem is that one of the reagents is not soluble, so we have to shake and shale that bottle to distribute the powder throughout the liquid.

The next few, post Littlefish's media will be most interesting

Littlefish · « **Reply #34 on:** September 04, 2018, 07:44:55 PM »

Glad the media arrived safely.

Bazza2000 · « **Reply #35 on:** September 06, 2018, 07:03:35 AM »

Latest graph on water tests, unsure if this is good or bad??

Sue · « **Reply #36 on:** September 06, 2018, 10:03:07 AM »

Have you added any ammonia since Littlefish's mature media went in the tank?

Bazza2000 · « **Reply #37 on:** September 06, 2018, 11:55:27 AM »

Not yet no.

Sue · « **Reply #38 on:** September 06, 2018, 12:26:53 PM »

In that case we can't know just how many bacteria the new media has added to your tank. Add 3 ppm ammonia as soon as you can, and measure everything 24 hours later.
If ammonia is still 3 ppm (which I doubt), don't get fish just yet.
If ammonia and nitrite are zero, when you go for fish you can get almost all your planned list. But if neons are still on the list, wait a few months before getting them as they do better in a mature tank - one that has grown a whole host of other micro-organisms.
If there is some ammonia and /or nitrite when you test after 24 hours, do a water change to remove them before you go fish shopping - ideally the evening before so the water temp has time to settle. Then get one shoal of fish and proceed as for a fish-in cycle. This means test for ammonia and nitrite every day and do a water change if you see either above zero. Once you've had zeros for 7 days, get the next batch, test every day for ammonia & nitrite etc. Even if the mature media hadn't added enough bacteria to remove 3 ppm ammonia, and the nitrite made from it, it should have added enough to cope with a lower bioload, which means that even if you can't get all your fish you will be fine getting some.

Bazza2000 · « **Reply #39 on:** September 06, 2018, 12:41:51 PM »

Thanks Sue, will get that added this evening and monitor over the next few days.

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1 Week Fishless Cycle With Mature Media Then Fish-in Recommendations

1 Week Fishless Cycle With Mature Media Then Fish-in Recommendations

Author Topic: 1 week Fishless cycle with mature media then Fish-in recommendations (Read 17278 times) 119 replies

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