Author Topic: Siphon suction wont work (Read 14321 times) 26 replies

Aquamaid · « **on:** February 28, 2015, 11:10:40 AM »

At present i siphon out my tank water into a dustbin in my room, then put pump in dustbin and pump it out of window, it would be nice to cut out the dustbin bit and just siphon out the window, but for some reason it won't. The top of the tank is 4' 3" it has to go about 13' across the room then 3' up to window ledge (or directly from top of tank to window ledge) then another 4' to drain, ive tried pumping the drain end with pump and sucking but although the water reaches end of pipe it doesn't flow out, any suggestions please, to make life one step easier

naughtymoose · « **Reply #1 on:** February 28, 2015, 02:10:18 PM »

AM

I've just set up a similar system.

I bought a 1000 LPH Eheim pump and cobbled together some hose and attachments etc.

I'm going to conduct tests tomorrow (with sensible, adult supervision in the form of my Partner) on a full water change.

My guess is that you don't have enough 'oomph'

(incidentally, my 'oomph' is pretty low too, but I'm on medication for it

)

Richard W · « **Reply #2 on:** February 28, 2015, 02:29:43 PM »

If your siphon pipe goes down to the floor, then has to rise 3 feet to get through the window, that is probably the problem. I believe your tank has to be higher than you want the water to rise, if your tank was a foot higher or the window a foot lower you might be OK - I think.

naughtymoose · « **Reply #3 on:** February 28, 2015, 03:06:39 PM »

The water has to overcome the 'lift' to get it out of the tank (which increases in height as the tank empties), then it has to be propelled along the hose to the other side of the room, THEN it has to go UPHILL (say 1m?), over the window sill and down to the garden.

When pumping out in to the dustbin, it is quite straightforward. Pumping out, along and then UP is a lot of work!

I'm knackered, and all I've done is write about it!

Get a bigger pump, with more head capacity.

What is the rating on your pump AM?

Aquamaid · « **Reply #4 on:** February 28, 2015, 04:29:10 PM »

Oh dear, i better try and explain this a bit better, at present i use gravel cleaning siphon and it empties into dustbin in dining room, i DO have a pump, good little one, that pumps the dirty water out of the dustbin and out of window, i would like to miss out the dustbin pumping and just gravel siphon out of window. Even when i have the pipe levelish (no rise) from top of tank to window ledge then down to ground, i can suck water to drain end of pipe, but no flow. I guess the drop is just not enough, will have to consider pump and gravel cleaner maybe

Thanks for the replies

Richard W · « **Reply #5 on:** February 28, 2015, 04:42:32 PM »

Assuming this is your big tank, I suggest you could make life easier by doing smaller water changes (as I always do suggest). The tank has a low stocking density and you have hard water (so no likelihood of pH crash) and there shouldn't be any need for big water changes.

Aquamaid · « **Reply #6 on:** February 28, 2015, 05:16:25 PM »

Haha that sounds too good to be true Richard, i admit none of the nine Congos are obove 2" at the mo and the twelve Harley only tiny and i think they have built a private toilet cos i never see anyone pooing unlike my platy's lol but i read Congos like very very clean water?. it's about 220 litres and i change about 100 litres a week, trying to get in good habit for when i increase stock

Mad_BMS · « **Reply #7 on:** March 01, 2015, 09:55:24 AM »

Tend to agree with Richard here Aquamaid as I am now doing smaller and more infrequent water changes on my 340L tank. I am now only doing about 25% change on a fortnightly/3 week basis as nitrates build up as I have not detected ammonia or nitrite for a long time. My stock has also increased a good bit (platys and guppies can certainly produce waste!) and while fish are not full grown this maintenance seems to be OK. When I bought the tank a rep from the maker was in the store and he actually said when established a tank of this size would only need partial changes monthly

.

SteveS · « **Reply #8 on:** March 01, 2015, 10:25:24 AM »

Siphons are easy. It doesn't really matter, within reason, what happens to the hose itself. There are two basic things to get right. Firstly, it is crucial to ensure that you don't get air in the hose, it will kill your siphon dead. Secondly, what matters is the difference in height between the two ends of the hose. It is fundamental to the principal that the output end of the hose is below the input end; In order to be able to siphon the tank effectively, it should really be lower than the base of your tank

Aquamaid · « **Reply #9 on:** March 01, 2015, 11:05:25 AM »

Thanks for the replies, i really can't see why siphon won't flow, will have to keep trying. It would certainly be nice to do either 25% water change every week or even the 50% fortnightly

Richard W · « **Reply #10 on:** March 01, 2015, 11:18:18 AM »

I think very few people would change more than 25% per week, which is much more than I do. Water quality can still be high without big water changes provided that you are managing your tank correctly, particularly maintaining the filter, and your plants will also help. I think big water changes should only be necessary if you have very soft water, or I should rather say low buffering capacity, which you don't have.

Is your water metered? And do you heat it before the change? Could become quite an extra expense!

Still don't see why your siphon doesn't work as my understanding is that the far end of the pipe at the drain is quite a bit lower than the base of the tank.

Silksheen · « **Reply #11 on:** March 01, 2015, 12:16:58 PM »

I had a similar problem with the syphon to start with. So I tried filling the whole unit and pipe with tap water first then keeping both ends sealed with your fingers lower the syphon head into the tank first. with the other end into the waste bucket well below the level of the tank making sure there is no air in the pipe. Release your fingers from each end and the water will flow very quickly. Depending on the size of your tank if your cleaning the gravel as well you have to work quick. Works perfectly every time.

Aquamaid · « **Reply #12 on:** March 01, 2015, 12:37:14 PM »

Thanks all, sounds like water changes just got a lot easier then, and yes on meter so would be better

naughtymoose · « **Reply #13 on:** March 01, 2015, 09:00:23 PM »

AM

You need to suck harder, or get a more powerful pump. The water will find its own level naturally... but it will take time.

If you are trying to empty your tank and then lift UP and over a window sill, you need to PUMP it if you want to make the level in your tank LOWER than the window sill.

I used the Eheim 1000 lph pump today, and conducted an experiment that simulates your situation. It took about 15 minutes to empty about 120l from my tank and lift it about 1m in the garden. (Actually, after establishing that it could lift the water to that height, we let it just pump out over the grass)

The reason that a 1000 lph pump takes 15 minutes to pump 100l (and not 6 minutes, as per the "1000 lph" description) is that the pump has to overcome gravity at two locations: firstly, in the tank- up over the rim: secondly at the window.

Aquamaid · « **Reply #14 on:** March 01, 2015, 09:22:19 PM »

Thanks NM yes i think i'm at an age now when i know what gravity can do

I will give it all another go with next w/c

Helen · « **Reply #15 on:** March 01, 2015, 10:54:29 PM »

It might be that your pipe is just too long to get enough pressure to get the water flowing. How much water are you changing in one go? I thought I saw you have a 90l tank. It seems a lot of effort for routine water changes. You might not want to drain much more than what you can get in a 13' tube!

Aquamaid · « **Reply #16 on:** March 02, 2015, 09:12:47 AM »

Hi Helen, no this is the 230L, so i'm changing about 100L a week, and yes pipe may be too long it's got to go about 13' I may go for an alternative week plan, gravel clean into the dustbin one week, and just pump water out (no cleaning) the next

Helen · « **Reply #17 on:** March 06, 2015, 07:46:29 PM »

Is that tank planted? If so, 100l out of 230l every week seems quite a lot. My 240l planted tank seems to do best when I change about 20-30l a week. Also, your plants might be happier if you don't 'vacuum' too close to them. I only vacuum where there are no plants, except occasionally when I have a spring clean.

Aquamaid · « **Reply #18 on:** March 07, 2015, 09:05:23 AM »

Id like to say it's a planted tank Helen lol, but it is far from established and suffering at the mo. I do only gravel hoover at the front where i have mainly sand, plants are round the back of tank in gravel and pond soil, dont like to disturb em much as the soil just clouds tank. My Congos are only small at the mo, but i read they need really, really pristine water, hense the large water changes

Richard W · « **Reply #19 on:** March 07, 2015, 09:22:57 AM »

But don't confuse "pristine" water with "new" water. Keeping water in pristine condition is more a case of maintaining your filter and testing than automatically changing large quantities. If your ammonia and nitrites are zero and nitrates are low, you water is fine. After all water straight from the tap is "pristine" but you wouldn't want to put your fish into it "as is".

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Siphon Suction Wont Work

Siphon Suction Wont Work

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