Tropical Fish Forum

Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => Fish Tanks and Equipment => Topic started by: Nan on April 13, 2019, 03:51:03 PM

Title: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on April 13, 2019, 03:51:03 PM
Hi. I've had fish for years, but recently moved to the UK from the USA and had to leave all but my tiny 5 gallon tank behind. It is now home to a rapidly-expanding swarm of albinor corys, so it's time to upgrade.  ;D I am  looking to start up another tank here (60 to 70 litre, nothing huge) and am unfamiliar with almost all of the brands of tanks on offer at the shops. (They're a lot more expensive here, too!)

I want a glass tank, a traditional one (no curved edges). I prefer a minimal cover, not one of the big rounded ones. It will be sitting on an exceptionally sturdy, reinforced table so I don't want one of those MDF-board cabinets that they keep trying to sell me at the petshops.  I'll be using an in-tank filter, not one of the drip-from-the-lid ones.  The Fluval tanks are lovely, but I don't want to have to deal with the in-tank filter system (etc.) when it fails. Just want a traditional 4-glass-walls tank. With a lid, preferably, although I can always get a pane of glass cut to cover. I am wanting something of good quality that won't break the bank.

I found a few that seem to tick off all the boxes, but know nothing about the quality of the tanks. Can anyone advise, or recommend one of these or some other brand?

Ciano Aqua60
Juwel Primo 60 or 70
Tetra AquaArt (have seen some reviews about the lighting being exposed to moisture and failing early?)
Tetra Starter Line (54 or 80 litre)
Aqual One (76 litre)
 EHEIM aquastar 54 LED


Thanks so much!
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Sue on April 13, 2019, 04:08:05 PM
Have you considered the Eheim aquapro LED tank? The 84 litre version has the same footprint as some smaller tanks (60 x 40 cm) and it does not have a filter in the hood but instead uses the Eheim aquaball filter. I used these for many years till I got my 180 litre tank and changed to the similar Eheim Biopower.
https://www.eheim.com/en_GB/products/aquariums/starter-kits/aquaproled

I can't find any reviews though.



I used to have a 54 litre Eheim aquastar back when they used fluorescent lights, which meant a much taller lid than the LED tanks. The only reason I got rid of it was that we altered the kitchen and there was no longer any place for it to go  :'(
The only downside I could find to my old tank was that it may have been called a 54 litre tank, but that was the amount of air it displaced not the volume of water it could hold. The quoted volume included the thickness of the glass and the gap above the water. This seems to be a common feature of modern tank manufacturers.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on April 13, 2019, 04:18:24 PM
Had not seen the Aquapro, will check it out. Thanks.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Robert on April 14, 2019, 08:29:56 AM
There's quite a good range on Amazon (https://amzn.to/2P7W0N7) from all manner of suppliers, with reviews and all sorts. Might save a bit of digging around too   :cheers:
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: fcmf on April 14, 2019, 10:08:00 AM
Also take a look at https://www.completeaquatics.co.uk/aquarium-accessories/aquarium-tanks-and-cabinets where, in the menu bar on the LHS, you can narrow down choices by all sorts of factors including size of tank, etc.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on April 14, 2019, 11:25:06 AM
Hi. I have no problem locating the tanks, thanks, but am looking for personal recommendations from people who have used them. :wave:
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: fcmf on April 14, 2019, 04:50:30 PM
Ah right - gotcha.

I have a Hagen Marina 54-litre.  However, these are no longer manufactured, so I probably wouldn't recommend purchasing one for that very reason.  You mention a couple of size variations of one of the tanks - if there's any scope for the bigger version, then go for that. I'm not sure if any of the tanks you mention have bow fronts but I have also read reviews about bow-fronted tanks being more prone to springing leaks, so possibly best to avoid if you have that option.


Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on April 14, 2019, 06:16:07 PM
Thanks! Yeah, I'm not a bit fan of bow-fronts. Some of the tanks I saw with wrap-around glass (only two vertical seams instead of four) were touted as being less likely to leak, but I really don't like the look of them at all. I'm really just wanting an old-fashioned rectangular tank, maybe two-foot, absolutely no more than a three-footer. Something I don't have to worry about blowing a seam out in the middle of the night or when I'm out of town.

I really don't want much over 60 to 70 litres, but it seems like the choices are few at that size and then the next "usual" size is 125L. That is really too big for me. For many years I had a 10 US-gallon tank and was happy with it. I'm now running a little 5 US gallon tank - thought I was going to get a betta and ended up with corys. And more corys. I changed the water yesterday and there are now MORE cory eggs! (Obviously there's nothing wrong with the water!)

The 5 gallon tank will be recycled to be a hospital or nursery tank. We are in rented accommodation and the floor in the living room is laminate and a bit springy, so I don't want to put too much weight on it in a small area. And, while I really do enjoy the fish, I don't want to have to maintain a huge bathtub of a tank.  ;)  It's going to be heavily planted and sparsely populated. (Mostly by corys, at this rate!)

I do have an aquarium book from the 1940s that has plans for build-your-own models. (My father was seriously into the hobby and built at least one of the ones we had when I was a child.) I could do that, but would rather not as I don't have the tools and by the time I assembled a tank it would cost as much for tools and supplies as just purchasing one pre-fab'd. That would have a warranty.

Which leads me to:  Do you know any websites that rate tanks? The only ones I found were affiliated with Amazon marketing (when I checked the fine print) and the makers of some of the tanks.  Is there an unbiased hobbiest-based review website anywhere?
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Sue on April 14, 2019, 08:18:03 PM
Try Practical Fishkeeping magazine. I've read reviews on their website, though looking for them is not easy....
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on April 15, 2019, 10:19:08 AM
Try Practical Fishkeeping magazine. I've read reviews on their website, though looking for them is not easy....

Thanks!
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on April 25, 2019, 09:07:10 PM
So we bought a 60 litre Juwel and are happy with it. Thanks for all the help.

It came with a filter, heater, light, and lid for £91 and free delivery. That should hold us nicely until we move into someplace with a more sturdy floor. ;)

Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Sue on April 25, 2019, 09:20:33 PM
Juwels are nice tanks, I used to have Rio 125.

What does the filter have inside it? You may not need to use some of the media. And if it is anything like the Rio, ignore the instructions when they say to change the media every few months  :)
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on April 26, 2019, 11:40:26 PM
It says it's a Juwel Bioflow Filter:  Filter media and replacement schedule - Poly Pad, Carbon Sponge, Nitrax 3.0, Sponge Fine 3.0.  We will be moving over our small swarm of Albino Corys once the tank cycles, and will probably get a few Cardinals and/or generic Tetras.  I don't want to overload the tank. Not familiar with the filter, so I hope it'll do. If not, I have a spare Tetra Whisper I can add to it.

We just got a sturdy stand set up for it yesterday, and now are in search of sand. On the advice of the guys at Swell Aquatics I've ordered some CaribSea Eco Complete Planted Aquarium Substrate to put in the back of the tank, where we intend to plant heavily. The gent said it was what he used in his own tank and would not hurt our Corydoras. Now we need to find some nice smooth black sand to put in the front half of the tank. I am completely unfamiliar with the brands here. Can you recommend one that would not hurt the Corys? We hope to put a bit of bogwood in the middle (or perhaps some rocks) and plant around that, but basically leave the front of the tank open sand for the Corys to play in.  Back in the States we had a nice black sand that had just a hint of a gold glimmer to it that my daughter wants to replicate here. I'm not seeing anything like that, so just a good deep black sand that's not sharp would do?
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Sue on April 27, 2019, 08:37:50 AM
Black sand is very hard to come by, a lot of so-called black sand looks grey or brown when wet. I once tried to get some and ended up getting sand coloured sand. There may be more brands now though. Make sure it is smooth for the cories as a lot of so-called sand is really tiny sharp gravel. Rub some between your fingers to check it.

You have the choice of doing a fishless cycle on the new tank using a bit of old media from your current tank to help kick start the cycle or move all the old media and the fish across to the new tank at the same time. The old media should be placed in the new filter near the beginning of the direction of water flow, leaving out some of the new media if necessary. Then add more fish slowly as you would for a fish-in cycle.


As for the Juwel filter, they are actually good filters.
Regarding the media: -
You don't need to run carbon full time so leave the black sponge in the cupboard - use the space for old media. Keep the black sponge for removing medication after treatment if the fish ever get sick.
The white pads are first in the direction of water flow and are designed to stop bits of debris getting to the rest of the media. They clog quickly and won't wash more than a couple of times before going holey. Get a length of filter wool/filter floss from a roll and use one of the white pads to cut it to shape. It's much cheaper than buying Juwel pads. Many shops sell filter wool on a roll, especially those that also sell pond stuff. Or Amazon/Ebay.
Juwel say to change the media frequently. Apart from the white pad which needs changing every couple of weeks, the sponges and cirax will last for years. The sponges need changing when they go into holes or won't go back to shape after squeezing; cirax only needs changing when it starts to crumble.


Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on April 27, 2019, 09:52:26 AM
Cool! Good to know that about the filter. I've been using a Tetra Whisper filter for years, and can't get the replacement cartridges over here without paying international shipping, so I've been re-using them by taking the carbon out and replacing it with carbon I've bought bulk here. It works decently enough, but it'll be nice to have a filter that's running on UK current rather than a transformer! 

We are in Glasgow. I have found three aquarium stores that I can get to by bus without much trouble. One is Maidenhead/Fishkeeper Aquatics down in Braehead. When we were out there a few weeks ago they didn't have much in the way of substrate. I do want to see the sand before buying it, so that's kind of a problem. There's a little shop on Dumbarton Road here in Glasgow that we visited, but the same applies - he didn't have much in the way of substrate in there at all (mainly just very healthy-looking fish).  There is one on a bus route out to the Forge shopping center that I'm going to try in a couple of days, and I think there may be a couple more in Paisley Road, but they are harder for us to get to.

I bought the CaribSea sight unseen at the recommendation of the guy at Swell, and it's not at all what we want for the look of the overall aquarium (it's too big), but as we do want to heavily plant an area and it's supposed to be very good for that, we're not unhappy with it. It's supposed to come in some sort of microbial broth that is to help kick-start the cycle. (Not convinced I should't wash the stuff before putting it in the tank anyway.) I asked Swell if there was any way to get samples of the sand they carried and they said there was not.

I had found this site https://www.best-pets.co.uk/trade/catalogue?scid=813 that has two black sands on it. Again, I hate to order on the internet as it's a gamble that what arrives will not be suitable and then I'm stuck with it. I wonder if anyone reading this might know of a good, safe brand of sand?  When we got our last batch of black sand it was out of a bulk bin in our aquarium shop in the States, so I don't know the brand. (The shop is out of business now.) It was a lovely deep black, with just a few glints of gold here and there. (We didn't think to try to dry it out and bring it with us!)
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Sue on April 27, 2019, 10:11:16 AM
I know from reading that HOBs are more common in the US than in the UK. And that so many of them just have carbon filled cartridges like yours - the usual recommendation is to replace the cartridges with sponge as you don't need to use carbon except to remove old medication once treatment has finished.

Since you intend planting heavily you don't need to do a fishless cycle.
Set up the new tank and wait till you know the plants are OK. Then cut the bag from the old cartridge, throw away the carbon and place the bag in the new filter where the black sponge is supposed to go. And move the fish and any decor in the old tank at the same time.
There will be bacteria on the bag and any decor. yes, you will lose the bacteria on the carbon, the old substrate and the walls of the old tank but provided there are a good number of plants, they'll remove any ammonia the bacteria don't get.
Once you know ammonia and nitrite are staying at zero, get the first batch of new fish.



That bulk buy carbon - keep it in the cupboard not the filter  :) Carbon is a hangover from decades gone by, we don't need to use it. Its only use is for removing old medication once treatment has finished. If you find you need it, just put some in a mesh bag in the filter.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on April 27, 2019, 11:33:31 AM
Nice to know that you have good water here.  ;) The water I was filtering in the USA had everything from arsnic to rocket fuel in it. (Yes, seriously.) Granted, they were in minute quantities, but that made the carbon a necessity.

I also have a little Eheim sponge filter going in the 5 gallon now and it's working very nicely.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Sue on April 27, 2019, 11:56:02 AM
Do you intend keeping the 5 gall running?

I know that most of Scotland has very soft water (though I have no idea if that includes Glasgow  :-[) If you do have soft water it's perfect for most tetras.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on April 27, 2019, 12:18:53 PM
Yes, I think I'll keep it going. We have the big tank out in the living room, and will but putting all the baby corys in it (there are 10).  I'm going to keep the older corys here in the 5 gallon in my  bedroom. I'm rather fond of them - they are such great personalities. But for now I've got two filters going in there just because there are so many fish, and am doing partial water changes every few days, and testing religiously. I didn't have another electrical outlet to put the air bubbler on, but I'm thinking it's not needed, really.

We have very soft water here - it's amazing. Not only for fish, but for us - I've had to relearn how to do laundry and get a different hair shampoo, but it's totally worth it. Our "old" water was heavily mineralized and left lime scale everywhere. So my kid's got great strong teeth, but I've spent a fortune on special shampoos, getting pipes unclogged, and getting coffeemakers serviced!
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Sue on April 27, 2019, 12:31:25 PM
To be honest, 5 gallons (19 litres) is too small for adult cories. You would be better using it as a grow out tank for the babies.

What species are the cories? C pygmaeus need a tank with a footprint of 18 x 12 inches (45 x 30 cm); the other two dwarf species C habrosus and c hastatus need 24 x 12 inches (60 x 30 inches). The larger species need 31 to 36 x 12 inches (80 to 90 x 30 cm)
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on April 27, 2019, 12:56:15 PM
Hmm. Well, these are albino corys, which I believe are a subset of bronze corys.  http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/catfish/acory.php

They've done fine in there for two years, and this year have started breeding like mad.  It might do to put them all out in the big tank - it's why we got the big tank in the first place.  :fishy1:  The tank is a foot x two feet. And since that's what we've got, that's what they'll be living in. ;)

At least until I can rehome some of them. We'll see how it goes.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: fcmf on April 27, 2019, 04:04:26 PM
You might find this helpful, to know exactly what your water hardness levels are in CaCO3 and degrees German: https://www.scottishwater.co.uk/en/Your-Home/Your-Water/Water-Quality/Water-Quality 

As for gravel/sand, you might find it helpful to look at this site - https://www.completeaquatics.co.uk/aquarium-accessories/aquarium-decoration/aquarium-gravel-and-sands and http://www.unipacpet.co.uk/aquatic/aquarium-sand/ for a specific brand. In the detail of each sand, they tell you the grain sizes, so that might at least give you an idea of what sand of a particular grain size looks like and what to avoid for when you buy it.

They've done fine in there for two years, and this year have started breeding like mad.  It might do to put them all out in the big tank - it's why we got the big tank in the first place.  :fishy1:  The tank is a foot x two feet. And since that's what we've got, that's what they'll be living in. ;)
Just a point worth knowing about breeding - breeding behaviour can also be a sign of stress ie mentality of "quickly reproduce and hopefully genes will continue".
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on April 27, 2019, 04:35:44 PM
Thanks for the links. I will check those out. I think my daughter will agree to a more natural colored sand, just to get the tank going. (We can always change out at a later date, if we need to.) I am thinking it should be a relatively fine sand (not superfine, but not large pieces) so the corys can sift through it naturally. Right now they are on rounded pebbles and doing just fine with them, but I think they'd be a lot happier on sand, from having seen videos of them.

I wonder what would have suddenly stressed them? They've been fine until just lately. 

In any event, very soon they will have a nice big fish chateau with plants, so hopefully they'll be happy there. 

The water is German 0.94. the CaCo3 is 16.85.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: fcmf on April 27, 2019, 06:21:51 PM
Yes, definitely a fine sand without sharp pieces is best for cories - a shop may be able to let you feel it and see what you think. I have Unipac's Tana sand which is a natural colour.

I wonder what would have suddenly stressed them? They've been fine until just lately.
A fish can be chronically stressed such as living in cramped conditions but it may manifest itself in various ways such as frenetic breeding or eventually falling ill.
The larger tank ought to help them and your very soft water will suit them very well.

Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 05, 2019, 05:39:22 PM
The tank is planted and cycling.  I've also just put a low-growing mossy-looking stuff on the rest of the Eco substrate in the back of the tank to cut down on the chances of the Corys hurting their barbels on it. (Photo take before I added that.) Hopefully they'll be too busy in the sand.  ;) Which I still need to rake to get the wayward bits of Eco out of.  Thanks for all your help and advice. ;D
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Littlefish on May 05, 2019, 05:55:44 PM
It's looking good.  :)

I'm sure that your fish will love their new home.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Matt on May 06, 2019, 02:16:38 PM
This is looking really good. Please keep us updated on how this progresses. If you struggle with eco complete constantly seeping out onto the sand try squeezing some filter floss in the gaps where it's coming through :)
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 06, 2019, 04:52:24 PM
Good idea, thanks!  The grassy-looking stuff has taken root already (!) and so I think that'll hold most of it back in the wider path up from the sand to under the filter (which, if my experience is any indication will be a very popular place to "hang out"). I am going to have to invest in a set of fish hedge-clippers, I think! The plants are growing surprisingly well - I've never had much luck with live plants, but these seem very happy on the Eco substrate and tabs.

I've contacted the person from whom I'm going to get some Rummies to arrange for us to compare tank water so that I have time to adjust it before bringing the fish home. I'm trying to get within a ballpark of theirs so the fish won't stress as much. Then the Rummies will go in to help with the cycling, and hopefully soon thereafter the big Albino Corys will be moved over there, with the largest of their offspring. (The tinys will stay in the 5 gallon for now.)

So my daughter wants to put a placket-tail betta in the big tank. I'm not convinced it's a good idea, because of the water flow. (That filter is designed for 80 litres and putting out a good flow in my little 60 litre tank!) Plus, Corys like the temps on the lower end - 72-76F - while Bettas like 78-82F. I guess I could split it at 77F, but that's not the best temp for both. I ~think~ Rummies like 76-80, so they would be ok. I am also thinking that Rummies won't bother the Betta, and the Betta should not go for the Rummies, but you never know with Bettas.  8)

Have you guys ever put Bettas with other fish? I would think it would be better off in the little 5 gallon tank with the Whisper filter as it cascades down from above, hanging on the back of the tank and can be adjusted to a low-flow as needed. If she's really set on a Betta, that is. But if it's safe to put it in the larger tank, it'd have a lot more room to be a Betta in.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Sue on May 06, 2019, 05:20:30 PM
Bettas are not community fish, if you want one the 5 gallon tank is much better. You will read of people who keep bettas with other fish, but we never know if it turned out to be successful as they would never let on if something went wrong. Even if there is no physical aggression either way, fish secrete allomones to communicate with different species, and if a fish picks up aggressive allomones it will become stressed.


I am a bit concerned when you say you will 'have time to adjust the water' This is not a good idea. You have soft water in Scotland, which is what rummies (either the usual false rummies or the less common true rummies) need. It is much better to leave your water the same as comes out of the tap. if you alter it, you'll either have to use the same altered water at every water change, forever; or gradually change the water back to the same as the tap over several water changes.

Some people advocate adding a bit of water every few minutes to the bag the fish are in to acclimatise them. But it takes days, if not weeks, for fish to acclimatise. The 'plop and drop' method is the better one - float the bag without opening it to get the water inside to the same temperature as the tank, then open the bag and net the fish out and straight into the tank.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 06, 2019, 06:17:52 PM
Yeah, I think the Betta would be better off in the five as well. I just couldn't figure out a way to explain it to the daughter. Thanks.

The guy who has the Rummies has them in a basically bare tank, with some gravel in the bottom. In that gravel he has bits of shell to "buffer" the water a bit more towards alkaline, which he does with all the fish he sells. He says otherwise it's local tap water.  I have basically the same tap water, but a lot of bogwood in the tank. There is that wonking big piece, and then the java ferns are on it as well. The water here is already acidic - I'm concerned that the bogwood is going to make it more so. Plus, the fish are coming from a tank that is having calcium carbonate added to the local water. 

I just did an API dip-strip in there and it's coming back KH between 0 and 40 and GH between 0 and 30. The PH is between 6 and 6.5. (I hate these color charts things, as they never match exactly, to my eyes.)

I had assumed that over time I would gradually work back to tap water, yes. But for their initial "plop and drop" I thought I'd have something a little more welcoming. And as the shell dissolves and the water is periodically replaced, they'll gradually come back up to our "standard".
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 08, 2019, 06:37:46 PM
Woah, my nitrate levels and nitrite levels are very high!

I know it goes - ammonia to nitrite to nitrate.  The water is also off-color, possibly leaching tannin from the bogwood. I assume I do nothing for a while, to let the nitrite-eating bacteria continue to flourish? (There are no fish in there yet.)
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Sue on May 08, 2019, 06:45:01 PM
If there are no fish it's not a problem.


Have you added anything to the tank - ammonia, fish food etc?



The nitrate test also tests for nitrite so if there is nitrite in the tank, the nitrate reading is not accurate.
Have you tested your tap water nitrate?
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 08, 2019, 07:01:25 PM
There are no fish in there. (Thankfully.)

The tank color only changed today. (My daughter says she thought it had a slightly green tinge last night.) It's not seriously noticeable, if you hadn't seen it before when it was crystal clear.

I added a little fish food early on. We're talking maybe 6 granules. I conditioned the water with Seachem Prime to declorinate/decloramine it. And the liquid plant food - Tropica plant growth premium fertilizer, a week ago when we first set it up.

I am using API 5 in 1 test strips and API Ammonia test strips.

The ammonia level is at 1.0 ppm (as far as I can tell from these colors). It could be a bit less - it's kinda in between .5 and 1.0, if I had to guess. The Nitrites are at the top of the chart, 10ppm. Nitrates are at  80-160ppm (again, hard to tell from the color).

Water out of the tap has no nitrates and no nitrites.

Should I assume the tank is cycling itself, and the eventually the ammonia will fall to nothing, as will the nitrites?

Or was there something in the plant fertilizer that's throwing things off?

Also, I am using Eco-complete substrate, which said it contained live bacteria that would help the tank cycle more quickly.

Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Sue on May 08, 2019, 07:09:08 PM
Yes, that's the usual procedure for a cycle. With lots of healthy live plants, they should take up the ammonia and they don't convert it into nitrite, so there's no nitrate made either. But there needs to be a fair amount of plants, and fast growing ones to do this quickly on a large scale.


Greenish water suggests an algae bloom. This is a microscopic alga that floats freely in the water and we see it as a green tinted cloudiness. Algae of all types are encouraged when three things are out of balance - light, fertiliser and carbon dioxide.
With no fish, there won't be much carbon dioxide. They breathe it out, and fish poo, uneaten food etc decompose to make it.
There may be too much plant fertiliser; too much for the 'proper' plants to take up especially if there's not much carbon dioxide.
Light - how long are the lights on for?
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 08, 2019, 07:29:13 PM
Lights come on at 9am and go off at about 9pm.  There's lots of plants in there and they are growing, visibly. They all seem pretty happy.

The water looks a little gold to me, more than green. I have had algae blooms in the 5 gallon before, when things went out of kilter, and this doesn't look like that. It's more brownish gold. Not sure it's not the bogwood making blackwater. But it could be algae.

There is no fertilizer in the substrate, so I put in slightly less than what the Tropica plant food dose was, for the tank. That was literally the same day the plants went in. I haven't added anything since.

I'm a bit confused as to how I've got such a high level of nitrites - seriously, it was like six grains of sinking pellets (Tetra Pro Color) in the 60 litre tank.

I was really hoping I could get some of the smaller corys in there to get them more room, as the nursery net is getting a bit crowded as they grow. I'm thinking that's probably a pretty good way to kill them, though, at present.

I had considered draining it by several litres and replacing with fresh, treated water. But that would that delay the cycle getting to the point that it would be safe to put the corys in, wouldn't it?

I had made arrangements to have the guy at the fish store test the water tomorrow, so perhaps he will be able to tell me more. I have already ordered the more accurate testing kit, but it won't be in for a few days.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 08, 2019, 07:38:59 PM
I do have the lights on a timer.  Perhaps 12 hours is too much. The tank gets some generic daylight when the sun comes up here. I'll try adjusting it to come on at 10:00am and stay on for a while, then off for the afternoon, then back on for the evening.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Sue on May 08, 2019, 07:44:39 PM
I would cut it down to 6 hours and see how the plants are. If they look as though they are suffering, increase to 7 hours and see.
Algae bloom can also be white. It could be that tannins are affecting the colour.


One thing you can try is to drain the tank and refill. Then add a few fish and monitor ammonia and nitrite very carefully - at least once a day. Totally new water will reset the levels back to tap water levels so any increase will be due the fish only.


A quick look on google implies that eco-complete is not one of those substrates that leach ammonia, which is good as you can't add fish for about 6 months with that type. There are sites saying that despite what the blurb says, it does not contain any plant nutrients but when those are added, the substrate holds them for the plants to access them.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Matt on May 08, 2019, 08:09:52 PM
I agree with sue on all of this...
Your lights should be on for about 8 hours a day give or take, but if the tank is getting some natural light (not normally advised as this encourages algae) then having them on for less than this is the way to go.

Eco complete does not leach anything to the water and contains minimum nutrients but does have a high CEC (cation exchange capacity) this means that it will absorb nutrients from the water column. This combined with your tropica nutrient dosing will make the for a good planted tank substrate.

Good luck and keep us informed of progress!
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 09, 2019, 10:05:04 AM
Ok, so having slept on this, I've decided to just wait. And pay lots of "clean water" attention to the little tank in the meantime. (As in, monitoring.)

So I redid the tests this morning on the big tank. There is some ammonia showing, but it's hard to say  how much it is because the color on the ammonia dipstick does not match the color chart. But the fact that it has changed and is not extremely dark tells me there is some in there.

The nitrites and nitrates are still very high, on the dipstick test. So I assume that whatever bacteria have grown are nomming on the ammonia, if the plants aren't grabbing it. Something is feeding the nitrite bacteria. And the fact that there are nitrates means at least some nitrite-nomming bacteria are growing? And that eventually the nitrites will drop off.  Does that tend to happen all at once, or is it a slow drop-off over a period of many days?

Not having done this without fish in a planted tank before, would it be reasonable to assume that in a week I should possibly see a reduction in nitrites?  Once I get to no nitrites and no ammonia, I can test the cycle by adding a bit of pure ammonia, right? If it gets gobbled in 24 hours I can do a major water change and start adding the corys a few at a time, over a period of time? (Testing daily, of course.)

[I have the test-tube version of the water testing kit ordered and it should be in next week. I really find it hard to use the dipstick tests for any sort of accurate reading, although if they change color at all it tells me there is some kind of problem.]
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 10, 2019, 11:23:34 AM
Ok, the test-tube API kit came today. I ran everything twice. In some cases it was between colors.

Ph 6.4 to 6.6
Ammonia .5 to 1.0
Nitrite 5.00ppm - very intense color
Nitrate .5 ppm

So I guess it is still cycling.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Sue on May 10, 2019, 02:29:37 PM
Curious as to how you get 0.5 ppm for nitrate -  the colours start at 0 then the next is 5.
Test your tap water for everything as well. For pH, test some freshly run water and some that's been allowed to stand overnight. This will give a base line to compare the tank results to.

Re the nitrate test, did you shake bottle #2 as per the instructions? One of the reagents doesn't actually dissolve so the shaking is necessary to distribute it evenly throughout the liquid. When new, or if it hasn't been used in a while, it can solidify on the bottom of the bottle, so tap it on a worktop several times before shaking to break up any lumps.



The highest the nitrite test can read is 5 ppm. Anything over than still shows as 5 ppm. When nitrite reaches about 15 ppm it inhibits the growth of the bacteria - but we have no idea if that 5 ppm colour is 5 ppm, 7 ppm or 20 ppm.
Dilution tests are not very accurate (we need very accurate measuring equipment), but they still give a ballpark idea. Mix some tank and tap water 50:50 and test nitrite. If the colour is somewhere less that 5 ppm, you are OK. If it still shows the 5 ppm colour, mix tap:tank 75:25. If that still shows the 5 ppm colour, nitrite is above the stall point. A large water change is then need to get nitrite down well below stall point.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 10, 2019, 09:06:35 PM
Typo. Should read 5.

Yes, I shook it vigorously and had banged it on the table several times as I'd read that about it.
I also ran the test twice.

Ok, re-tested the nitrite in the tap. None.
Re-tested at 50/50 and honestly can't tell.
Re-tested at 25tank/75tap and I ~think~ it is at 2.0. It seems closest to that, from what I can tell having put it under every different light in the house.

I had been running two small filters in the 5 gallon tank for a month, to collect bacteria to transfer to the big tank. I've moved one of them over.

I'll retest again in the morning when the light is better.

Ran the Ph again and it's at the bottom of the scale. Have some water sitting out overnight and will test it in the morning as well.   I assume that a partial water change tomorrow won't actually hurt anything, since the bacteria should be developing in the filter?
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 11, 2019, 09:42:17 AM
9:00am tests, run in very good light, with everything that should be shaken vigorously done so.  :)

Ph 6.0  It is at the first color on the chart absolutely.
Ammonia  .5 to 1.0 (hard to tell, perhaps a bit closer to 1.0)
Nitrite can't tell for sure - could be 2 or 5. It seems lighter than last night, but that could be the daylight.
Nitrate 5

Ran everything twice, same result.

So yesterday morning the Ph was 6.4 to 6.6 and today it's 6.0 (unquestionably).
The ammonia seems about the same.
The nitrite doesn't seem so intensely purple.
The nitrate hasn't changed.

Going to go give it one more Nitrate test, after agitating the second bottle to the extreme, just to make sure of that being accurate.

The only thing that has changed is that I put a dirty filter from the other tank into this tank yesterday afternoon. But I don't see how that would change the Ph. And if the microbes were seeding and gobbling nitrite, I would expect to see the nitrate go up?

Unless the plants were eating it? But how much can the plants actually use that quickly? (The substrate couldn't be bonding to it, could it?)

Hmm, one more question. If I had put Prime or Amquel in the water when I was setting up the tank, to take care of the chlorine to chloramine, it would neutralize any Nitrites/Nitrates in there at that time. Could that be masking the results?  Have decided to take a sample to the aquarium shop for the guy to test for me (as he said he would - hopefully not with a test strip).  Depending on what he says, I may empty and re-fill the tank today, get it to temperature, and put three of the tiny baby corys in there to start things over. At least the filter should have gotten SOME bacteria going by now. And the "dirty" filter from the other tank is still in there.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Sue on May 11, 2019, 12:29:05 PM
Even when a water conditioner that binds ammonia, nitrite or nitrate is used they still show up in the tests.

Nitrate and nitrite are acidic. As you live in an area with very soft water, there is enough nitrite to use up all the KH and then push the pH lower. This is not a problem as long as you stick with fish which need soft acidic water. Once the tank is cycled and you have fish, your weekly 50% water changes will be enough to replenish the KH in the tank.

However, a very low pH inhibits the bacteria. You could try adding some bicarbonate of soda (aka baking soda) just until the tank is cycled. But you would have to drain the tank right down the substrate and refill before getting fish. Use a level 5ml spoonful per 25 litres water. Dissolve it in a bit of tank water then pour it into the tank. This will increase both KH and pH. The big water change will reset everything to tap level.
6.0 is the lowest the API pH tester can measure so the actual pH could be lower than 6.0.

Plants prefer ammonia as their fertiliser. They will take up nitrate and some nitrite in the absence of ammonia. The reason they prefer ammonia is because they have to convert nitrite & nitrite into ammonia to use it; taking up ammonia saves energy.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 11, 2019, 03:22:46 PM
Took the water to the aquarium guy and he was getting the same results as me. He used a different testing kit - I couldn't make out the brand. (I had used the API Master freshwater.) He said I could wait a week and come back and retest, or add cockleshells or crushed coral to the filter (he was out of them, more in next week) to buffer the water a bit so it would be less likely to crash.

He also said adding any sort of additional bacteria from a bottle was pointless and throwing money away, really, as time would sort it out. He thinks that the fact that there is some nitrate in the water probably means that I just missed the ammonia spike, and that it's on the way down, and the nitrite is at it's peak and should start dropping over the next few days as well. Apparently my putting the dirty filter in was a good idea.

He also mentioned the bicarb as a way to buffer the water, but said it would be temporary. He didn't mention having to drain the tank if I used it, though. He did tell me the story of how when he was first starting out in the business he had some fish that liked a less acidic water and he tested the local tap water and it was fine, but when he put it in his tanks during a water change within a day or two he would find badly stressed fish in them. When he'd so a water test he would find the water in the tank had dropped to more acidic than the fish could handle.  So now he always has the water aging, and tests it before putting it in. Recommended I do that - which I already had covered for the little tank. I've got a half-dozen 1.5 litre bottles with Amquel already in the water, sitting on a shelf in the kitchen for emergencies. I'll be adding several more.

So, 50%?  I had always heard you never should, except for emergencies, change more than 1/4 to 1/3 of the water in a tank at any one change. Do you normally change yours 50% every week?

Well, at least the plants should be happy in there then! (They do look good.)
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Sue on May 11, 2019, 03:46:49 PM
I do 50% or more every week. It is safe to change virtually all the water provided you remember to add dechlorinator. The micro-organisms we need in the tank - both the ammonia and nitrite eating bacteria, and hundreds of others - live attached to surfaces not floating in the water. The only micro-organisms floating in the water are things we don't want eg diseases.

Bicarb cannot be used when there are fish in the tank because of the soda part - sodium. There are no soft water fish which have evolved to cope with a lot of sodium in the water. This is why the tank should be drained before putting fish in it.
Provided you have only fish that like soft acidic water you don't need to add anything to 'harden' the tank water. If you want to keep fish that need harder water you would have to add something to increase GH, which would also increase pH and usually KH. Dolomite (chunks or crushed) is better than shells or coral. The latter contain only calcium carbonate while dolomite is calcium-magnesium carbonate.
The fish the chap told you about that did poorly in his water would have been hard water fish.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 11, 2019, 04:38:01 PM
Interesting.  My  little five gallon tank I change 1/3 of the water every other day, simply because there are too many fish in there. Everyone seems fine and the water tests out good, but that tank's been going for almost two years now.

I just did a partial water change - took out 15 litres and put 15 fresh in (treated). Hopefully that will make it a bit less acidic in there and nothing will stall. The tank technically holds 55 litres, but with all the substrate and the bogwood I would assume it's closer to 50-ish litres. So that would have been close to a 1/3 water change. Will be interesting to see how it tests tomorrow.

You were right on the algae, by the way. It was really hard to see it unless there was a white surface behind it. I could barely make it out on the glass when I emptied it a bit. It was just enough to make the water just a tad less than sparkly clear. Thankfully have a scrubber tool on a long handle and was able to get it off most of the tank. I'm sure there are others floating around in there just waiting to take their place. But hopefully the filter will get most of it, and I'll do another scrub before I empty and refill the tank before the fish go in there, eventually, so hopefully most of it will be washed out. The rest will be cory food. (Hopefully they don't do a lot more breeding!)
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Sue on May 11, 2019, 04:45:45 PM
With overcrowded tanks it is necessary to do more water changes. Your 1/3 every other day is fine. Fish excrete more than ammonia and secrete other biochemicals. The more fish there are the faster these things build up so the more water changes that need to be done.
I once worked in a hospital lab and we tested urine for all sorts of things. Fish excrete similar if not the same things. And all the things we did not test for.

With new tanks, the bacteria colonies are not fully established. This is why dechlorinator is a must. With tanks that have been running for years it is possible to get away without one but personally I wouldn't risk it.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 11, 2019, 04:59:45 PM
Yeah, I would never put fish in water that hadn't been declor'd. They have chloramine in the water here, too.

So. To polish the water. I have a Juwel Bioflow One in there (it came with the tank). It has the little removable pads as filter medium. I don't imagine they are "fine" enough to really get the algae out of the water. Is filter floss readily available in this country? (UK) Or is there some other product you would recommend that I sub for one of the filter blocks in the Bioflow to take care of that problem?
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Sue on May 11, 2019, 05:16:09 PM
I looked on Juwel's website and see that this filter has 2 blue sponges as its only media. But it should be easy to add a layer of filter wool.
It is called both filter wool and filter floss in the UK depending on the seller. Many shops sell it from a roll and you buy as much as you want. Those shops that sell pond fish are more likely to sell it. Failing that, there is Ebay/Amazon if you have an account with either of those.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 11, 2019, 05:45:00 PM
Thanks, to Amazon it is! (It's a three mile walk each way to the aquarium shop and my arthritis is killing me, so mail-order it is!)

Curiously, I just retested the water after the  15 litre water change, to try to see how much of a difference it made. I only looked at the ammonia and the nitrites. The ammonia has dropped to between 0 and .25, and the nitrite is still .... purple. Seriously, they all look the same to me. Nice to know that in case of an ammonia spike that a less-than-major water change would make that much difference!

I'm about to take the gunky filter pad out of the Whisper filter and put the Whisper back in the little tank with a new filter as I don't like just having the one Eheim filter in there with so many fish in such a small place. I'll put the gunky pad in the big tank and hopefully if some of the bacteria didn't defect overnight while I had it in the big tank in the filter, they will now.

Thanks for all your help, Sue.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Sue on May 11, 2019, 06:36:44 PM
The filter bacteria don't move from one medium to another. As they multiply, the new ones creep into the new media. These bacteria multiply very slowly, doubling in something like 24 to 36 hours. It takes weeks for old media to seed new media, and the old must stay in the new filter for at least 6 weeks. And if there is the same or less ammonia to feed the bacteria their numbers will remain the same or decline rather than growing more of them.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 11, 2019, 06:41:57 PM
Ah. So I should probably put at least part of it in the filter itself. The Whisper uses a sort of floss pocket that one puts carbon inside. So I should be able to cut the floss off in a square shape and add it to the new BioFlow filter.

I was rather hoping the microbes would just float free and get sucked up into the new filter to establish. The filter pad is pretty gunky. Do you think rinsing it in the new tank would free up some of the microbes to be sucked into the new filter pads and, hopefully, get stuck there? Or is that a lost cause?
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Sue on May 11, 2019, 06:52:08 PM
A lot of people do say that the gunk can seed a new filter but others say it is rubbish. The gunk is mainly fish poo, uneaten food etc so it will contain bacteria and other micro-organisms that break those down, which the tank also needs. The gunk is broken down to ammonia which the filter bacteria then turn into nitrate via nitrite. This is why the gunk is referred to as a nitrate factory and should be washed out of a mature filter on a regular basis.

The best thing to do is put a dirty cartridge pocket into the new filter, first in the direction of water flow so that any loose micro-organisms get washed into the new media. The more beneficial 'bugs' that get into the new tank, the better.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 11, 2019, 09:11:31 PM
Sounds like a plan!
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: jaypeecee on May 12, 2019, 10:45:45 AM
The water is German 0.94. the CaCo3 is 16.85.

Hi Nan,

Welcome to Old Blighty!

This looks like an interesting thread but I have only had a few minutes to cast my eye over it. However, your statement above jumped out at me. That is very soft water indeed. Normally, a KH/Carbonate Hardness/Alkalinity figure would be a minimum of, say, 4dH. And General Hardness (GH) would be largely determined by the fish being kept. Perhaps Sue has said elsewhere but such soft water is very prone to pH crashes. Basically, the pH would not be stable. And at pH6 or below, nitrifying bacteria struggle to survive.

I'll try to return to this thread later today.

JPC
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 12, 2019, 11:25:29 AM
Hi JPC.

Thanks for mentioning that, as I don't think we'd discussed it.  I'll be testing the tank later today, and if there's no change I'll try some bicarb to try to bring it up a bit.  I do have aquarium "up" that I bought a year ago for the other tank (and then never used) if that would be better. (?)
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Sue on May 12, 2019, 11:32:01 AM
I have KH 3 deg, which is higher than Nan's. But I have found that weekly water changes of at least 50% keeps my pH stable. Many years ago when I was lazy about water changes, I did have a pH crash!

I have suggested artificially boosting KH with bicarbonate of soda during cycling, and suggested dolomite to raise GH and KH once there are fish in the tank. Chunks of dolomite rock could be used as decor. Crushed dolomite or dolomite sand does not seem to be available (since the tank is untended for cories, these should be used in the filter if any can be sourced). Shells, coral or limestone can be used but these are all calcium carbonate. Dolomite is better because it is calcium magnesium carbonate.
The other alternative would be to use remineralisation salts of the kind added to RO water. But only enough to raise GH and KH slightly. The downside to doing this is that all new water at water changes must be treated with exactly the same amount of remin salts before it goes into the tank.


Chemicals that adjust pH are not usually a good idea. they contain all sorts of chemicals, some of which we don't want. Eg a lot contain phosphate.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 12, 2019, 11:33:55 AM
Hmmm. I'll try to source some dolomite then. Is it something they might have at a pet store? Would this do, do you think? In a little bag in the filter?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Aquarium-Tanganyika-Decoration-Substrate-Tropical/dp/B07C8NF85F/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_10?keywords=dolomite+aquarium&qid=1557657379&s=gateway&sr=8-10-fkmrnull
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Sue on May 12, 2019, 11:47:51 AM
They don't say what it is, it could be crushed coral. With cories in the tank you could not use it as the substrate as it is too coarse. It would need to be in a bag in the filter. A couple of 15 ml spoonfuls would be plenty.

Also it is white which is not a good colour as fish have evolved over dark substrates so white is very unnatural for them (Do the Rift Lakes have white floors? I know the water chemistry is unlike any other fresh water so the bottom of the lakes might be unusual as well)
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 12, 2019, 02:14:58 PM
Yeah, no way I'd put it in the tank in the substrate as we went through hell to FIND a good black substrate. For the purpose of it being black.  ;)

I ordered a little sample bag for a couple of pounds and will see what shows up.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 12, 2019, 02:42:21 PM
Woo! Just did the daily test. Twice, to be sure.
Ph at 6.
Ammonia between zero and .25.
Nitrite between 2 and 5 (I think. Again, the colors are so similar....)
Nitrate is most definitely now between 10 and 20.
We are not stalled, hooray!

I'm still going to add a little dolomite anyway, because of the stability issues. When I find it.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Sue on May 12, 2019, 02:53:39 PM
It would probably be easier to find a lump of dolomite and use that as a rock in the tank. For example dolomite (https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2499334.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xdolomite.TRS0&_nkw=dolomite&_sacat=3213) (the examples that are just dolomite, nothing else)


Yes, things do seem to be moving at last.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 12, 2019, 03:01:27 PM
Cool. I'll have my daughter get me some off Ebay then, as she has an account there.

I wonder if it was time, adding the nasty fish filter, or the 1/3 water change that kind of nudged things along?
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Sue on May 12, 2019, 03:24:18 PM
Probably all three.
The nasty pad would have contained bacteria
Extra time for those bacteria to multiply (they can double thir numbers in 24 to 36 hours)
The water change would have removed some ammonia & nitrite, but also added some KH. Not much, admittedly but it would have helped. The filter bacteria also need inorganic carbon to grow, and inorganic carbon is just carbonate and bicarbonate.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 12, 2019, 03:37:17 PM
Hmmm. I wonder if I should give it another partial water change today?

Also, I checked on that "Up" product on my shelf. It is Sodium Carbonate. (Not BiCarb, like baking soda.) Since I'm going to be pretty much cycling out all the water that's in the tank now by smaller water changes before the corys go in, I wonder if adding one ml of it to the tank might be helpful to the nitrite>nitrate bacteria?

Or I probably should just leave well enough alone, and change out some water, and wait.

I have to say, the plants are growing dramatically, as are the extras I put in the little tank. The corys don't seem to know what to do with the grass-like stuff.  ;D
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Sue on May 12, 2019, 03:44:06 PM
If sodium carbonate is the only ingredient, you can use it during cycling. But the sodium will make it unlike the water your fish come from (cories and any other soft water fish) so I wouldn't use it once you have fish.

The common name for sodium carbonate is washing soda  :o
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 12, 2019, 03:47:59 PM
Yes, that's the only ingredient listed. (And yep, washing soda. My mom used to have it in the laundry. Along with lye. Which I never quite understood the need for. But, whatever, that was over a half-century ago!)

Yeah, the water that is in there now is not what the babies are going to go into. I just want to get the filtration set up and working well and then go back to conditioned tap water for them. With the dolomite in there for the minerals and stuff. Once the dolomite gets here, which could be a week or two.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Sue on May 12, 2019, 03:50:47 PM
Washing soda is also good to use on drains  ;D
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: jaypeecee on May 13, 2019, 12:41:05 PM
Bicarb cannot be used when there are fish in the tank because of the soda part - sodium. There are no soft water fish which have evolved to cope with a lot of sodium in the water.

I have used sodium bicarbonate on many occasions to increase KH in a tank occupied by German Blue Rams (GBRs) - both juveniles and adults. At one stage, I had no less than 40 healthy GBRs in this tank when I had a pH crash. Adding the correct dose of sodium bicarbonate to nudge the KH to around the 4.0 mark did the job. All the fish were/still are absolutely fine. GBRs are soft water fish.

As an additional observation, I use Tropic Marin Re-Mineral Tropic (RMT) to remineralize RO water, which I use in my tanks. RMT contains sodium and, I suspect, it's the bicarbonate form.

JPC
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 13, 2019, 12:49:14 PM
Good to know!

Oh, big surprise for me here this morning. Was sitting next to the tank, drinking my coffee, when I noticed something moving in there under its own power. It seems there is an incredibly tiny cory in there - must have been an egg in the filter, or a larvae in the filter, when I added the janky old filter to the tank and then pulled the  filter medium out in the water!  So, something is alive in there besides the plants!  "Rambo" seems to be doing fine, rooting in the fine black sand up under the plants.

I did a 1/3 tank water change, as I'd added enough "Up" yesterday to get the tank to register a change in Ph on the test scale. This morning it was back down to 6.0, the ammonia seems a bit lower (hard to tell) but not yet zero, and there is definitely more nitrate in the tank. The nitrite remains, of course, purple and I can't tell the difference between the three of the purple colors on the card.  ::)  Since Rambo is in there now I'll be changing a bit of the water every day until this weekend, and then will chance a couple more slightly older cory babies in it. (With Amquel in the water to neutralize the ammonia, etc.)
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on May 14, 2019, 11:09:02 AM
And I should not have washed out the gunk into the big tank from the Whisper filter, it seems. The little tank has had an ammonia/nitrite spike that killed some of the baby corys. All emergency protocols have been taken, and the remainder of the babies have been moved to the big tank after an 80% big-tank water change and conditioning.

One of them doesn't look good, but could possibly pull through. I thought for sure he was a goner, as he was already turning white, but he wedged in a spot where the water from the filter was running over him well and has perked up. He definitely has gill damage, though, so there's no telling. It could just be a matter of time until he slips away.  One of the other corys is staying near him. (The poor little thing!  :(   ) The others are already rooting in the sand and look like they've lived there forever. Will be testing the water twice a day and doing a partial water change daily, just to keep things fresh, for a while. I have several litres and a five gallon bucket of water aging.

Once the little tank is stable again and I'm sure they are all ok, and when I'm sure the big tank is also stable, I'll switch some of the babies out for their parents - babies back to small tank, parents into the big tank, one at a time, over several days. The last thing I want is another crash on my hands, with dead corys.

That was so sad to find this morning! I have been doing partial water changes in the little tank every day, but I guess the bioload was just too high for the tank given using only the Eheim sponge filter for a while, instead of the Eheim and the Whisper together. (The only thing that has changed is that I put quite a bit of the floating plants from the big tank into the smaller one. Probably not actually associated with the problem, and only a coincidence.  It's probably the filter thing.)
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on August 30, 2019, 08:03:55 PM
Ok, now THAT was weird!  :o :o

I had the big tank running since May. I cleaned the filter out in June. In July I only took the top sponge of the filter out to clean (there are two), and added a bit of alkaline gravel.  In early August I cleaned the top sponge again (so as to leave the bottom sponge with the bacteria).  Yesterday I decided to give the filter a good clean, so I turned it off, drained the water and took it to the kitchen sink. I pulled both (very gunky) sponges out and kept them in a bowl of tank water. I then turned the housing over under running tap water and shook it. Out popped a good-sized albino cory into the sink strainer. I thought it was dead, then thought again - how would a cory that big get into the filter? I looked closely and saw a gill move! Holy Moley, he was alive.  :yikes:

So I got him into a net and back into the big tank - where he went straight to the bottom and began to root in the sand.  My daughter agreed that was weird - he must have been sucked into the filter as either a fry or an egg right after the tank had cycled, and had been living in that tiny space for at least a month (probably closer to two, given his size).

So I thought nothing more of it. I dumped the gravel out into a bowl and was washing it and, yes, there, in the gravel was ANOTHER cory, about half his size. Same drill - emergency transfer to a net and into the big tank. Straight to the bottom and began to feed. Pwew!

So, back to the gravel, which I had been sloshing around in running tap water for a good five minutes. Noooo, was that a flash of pink? Yes, it was. A tiny cory had been sloshed around in the gravel, in running cold tap water. Net. Tank. Bottom. Feeding.

So, today, the filter is re-assembled, Tetra Safe-start added to it, and back in the tank. The three "new" corys are doing well. I am, once again, up to my eyeballs in albino corys - we had planned to keep six, gave away what we thought were the rest. Between eggs that were well-hidden in the tank and these three guys who lived in that tiny one-inch by one-inch space in with the filter and heater, we now have fifteen again!

Those are some darned sturdy little fish!!!  :o

Anybody want any albino corys?
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Matt on August 30, 2019, 08:32:21 PM
 :yikes: wow that is quite a story!

I've never once raised any fry, you seem to have the knack!
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Littlefish on August 30, 2019, 09:13:10 PM
Wow, that's some hardy corys.  :o
I wouldn't have thought they'd live in a filter, or survive being run under the tap.  ;D
Amazing.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on August 30, 2019, 09:43:41 PM
I know, huh? We've had corys on and off for years, and NEVER had anything like this happen. They have always lived to a great age, but have never spawned. Apparently, corys really like it in Scotland!

I was sure I'd killed that tiny one, as I'd been sloshing the gravel around in the bowl, and then running more water (and it was pretty cold) over the gravel to get the gunk gone.... He's nibbling on the algae on the log right now, though.

These are impressive little fish, I have to say!
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: fcmf on August 31, 2019, 12:58:57 PM
Wow, what a good and impressive story, with a nice outcome on each occasion.  :cheers:

Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on September 04, 2019, 08:00:36 PM
This is the best photo I could get - some of the guys are behind the log. But that little tiny pink dot in the foreground on the left? Yep, that was the guy who got washed in the gravel for five minutes. Doing fine!
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Sue on September 05, 2019, 09:44:20 AM
Your tank looks great  :)
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Robert on September 05, 2019, 10:10:56 AM

Anybody want any albino corys?


Feel free to put up a post here @Nan  :cheers:


https://forums.thinkfish.co.uk/items-for-giveaway/ (https://forums.thinkfish.co.uk/items-for-giveaway/)
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on September 05, 2019, 10:17:19 AM
Your tank looks great  :)

Thanks!  The water current, with the activity of the corys rooting, has pushed some of the gravel from behind the log (on the left side of the tank) so I need to fix that. I want the whole front of the tank to be sand, but it's a never-ending battle. They do manage to move the gravel around a bit!
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Matt on September 06, 2019, 11:31:41 PM
Nice looking tank  :cheers:
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Littlefish on September 08, 2019, 10:54:48 AM
Your tank looks great.  :cheers:

Corys do have a habit of shifting things around and partially redecorating their tanks on a regular basis.  ;D
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on September 10, 2019, 10:28:49 AM
Thanks. We're quite happy with it.

And yes, they do. That might be kind of an understatement, though.  ;)
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: fcmf on September 10, 2019, 01:23:16 PM
Oh wow - I missed this photo. Your tank looks really lovely - such a nice homely environment for your fish.
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: Nan on September 14, 2019, 10:28:38 AM
Oh wow - I missed this photo. Your tank looks really lovely - such a nice homely environment for your fish.

Thanks, we are happy about it. And Big Bertha (our massive female cory) seems so happy that we regularly have eggs on the glass that we have to scrape off for Opus, our resident egg-snarfer, to eat. He's getting a bit pudgy.  ;)
Title: Re: Need to buy a new tank - need recommendations
Post by: fcmf on December 18, 2019, 06:20:28 PM
Thread has been split at this point to create a new one located at: https://forums.thinkfish.co.uk/general-fishkeeping-advice/moving-fish-internationally-(to-usa)/

Moderator FCMF  C:-)