New Tank

Hi Sue,

Thanks for your speedy reply.  One other thought, on reading up on the Rio, it says that it is PVC as opposed to glass and that this is ok for clarity but to be careful not to scratch it.  Is glass or PVC better, or is it just personal preference?

At the moment, as you know, Rafe is in the 60L with everyone else, so yes, this is my cycled tank and the one I would like to keep going so that Rafe can stay in it. I was thinking that at some point, some fishy friends can be in there with him, perhaps some corys. I was wondering if Rafe stayed in there initially on his own, if I could use more of my filter media in the new filter to kick start it.  I realise this is not ideal, but that Rafe is probably not so dependent on a fully cycled filter.
I agree with you that I should set the new one up to test for leaks etc.

Before I put the fish in, should I leave the tank for a few days for the water to settle, or even keep some of the old tank water to put in the new tank as I read that it is bad to have completely new water because of all the minerals etc?

I am hoping to get my new tank maybe tomorrow or Tuesday if they're not open tomorrow,  (Most shops are shut here on Mondays) so I want to make sure I buy the right one. They still didn't really have the right tank for Rafe, so I figured it was probably just as well to forge ahead with the bigger one so he can keep the 60L.

Thanks for your help...

I started replying about 2 hours ago, then my husband decided it was time for dinner 

Rios are made from glass. I've never heard of a tank being made from pvc, the only plastic I'm aware of for tanks is acrylic. You can tell the rio is glass as it is made from panels joined together. Acrylic tanks are made from a single moulded piece (I think!)
Have you found this rio 180 manual

If the bulbs are 45 watts, they are T5 rather than T8. T5 are better for plants.  Juwel use an odd sized tube in the hope that you'd be tied to their make. But Arcadia make Juwel sized bulbs as well. I don't know about the T5s but the T8s Juwel used made the water look yellow, a very unattractive shade. I swapped to Arcadia bulbs which are much better. If you find your tank water looks like someone has relieved themselves in it (I said it was unattractive  ) replace them. original tropical tubes is made in Juwel size, the T5 starting with code J


I'd forgotten about the betta tank problem 


There are 2 ways to set up the new tank, the safe way and the not quite so safe way.

Both ways will necessitate the complete emptying of the 60 litre I'm afraid. It is not safe to move a tank with any water in it. Tanks are designed to be strong when just sitting there. Any water, even an inch, will slosh around and twist the tank and could well lead to tank failure ie 60 litres of water on the floor.

The safe way:
Move the 60 to it's new position, fill it back up with as much water as you can save and top up with new and put all the fish back in. Put the new tank where it is going, fill the new tank with completely new dechlorinated water. Then when everything is ready take some media from the 60 litre and put it in the new filter. And do a fishless cycle on it. It is safe to take about a third of the media out of the 60 litre, but give the fish less food for a day or two before and a few days after.

The not quite as safe way:
Get the two tanks to where you want them. Divide up the media in the 60 - the proportions of the two batches should be the same proportion as the bioload of the fish going in each tank. Put the 60 litre's worth of media back in the 60 litre together with some of its water and the fish which will be staying in there. And the 180 litre's worth of media into the 180, together with the rest of the 60 litre's water and the fish that'll be going in the 180. Top up both tanks with new dechlorinated water. Again, don't feed as much.
This is the not-quite-so-safe method as it's difficult to estimate the bioload of each species and get the division of mature media absolutely correct. You could find yourself in a mini-cycle in one of the tanks.



With both methods, fill the spaces in the filters with new media. The mature media should go first in the direction of water flow. For the built in Juwel filter that would be right under the white pad - instead of the carbon sponge is the ideal place.

Hi again, Sue,

I forgot to say, it was while I was looking for any feedback on the tanks.  I typed in, 'Juwel Rio 180 reviews' and one of the sites I looked at was a 7 point product review, (that was what it was headed).  It was on there that it said the Juwel was PVC....I thought it strange myself, but figured I know squat, and they knew what they were talking about!  I'm glad I mentioned it though as I was wondering whether to not go for the Juwel after all, as I was worried about scratches etc.

Thanks again.....

I've found the review. I don't think they know what they are talking about 

"Only a couple of medium sized fish" Well, I suppose it does depend on how you define medium. To me, medium includes things like 3-spot gourami and you could fit more than just a couple of them.

"pvc" Again, I've never heard of a tank being made of pvc. My rio is definitely glass. Even if you google 'pvc aquarium' all you get are things to go in an aquarium made of pvc, not the tank itself.

The lighting. It comes with T5 tubes, the ones that are recommended for plants. They stopped using T8s a while ago. Mine has T8s but it is a few years old.

The suspended base - aka floating base - it is not the base that stops the tank leaking. It's just that flat bottomed tanks can crack without a base mat or polystyrene under them, and floating bases do away with the need for base mats. In fact, using a base mat/polystyrene invalidates the warranty.


I think it sums the site up when you notice that:

• In their best available tank page, it gives the Fluval Edge as the best beginner tank. (sorry Jesnon  )
• On their 8 top accessories page, it says the lights have to on for 12 hours then off for 12 hours to mimic the sun rising and setting or the fish will get depressed. They've obviously never heard of algae   
• They say you need a pump and a filter (though since the site is mainly about marine fish, you might need both for them)
• Remove the fish when cleaning the tank and when you've finished cleaning the tank let it run for several hours before putting the fish back in (unless that's what marine fishkeepers have to do)
• Clean the filter at every water change, and no mention of the type of water to use (some people will assume to use tapwater)

I think I'd be inclined to say they don't know what they are talking about with pvc tanks 



Edit to add - did you read their choice of the 3 cheapest tanks?
Fluval Edge - generally reckoned to be expensive compared to plain rectangular tanks
Fluval profile 850 - it's usual price is only 920 euros  That's cheap?

PVC may relate to the trimmings and/or the hood. It is possible to make rigid, even transparent, PVC but it is quite fragile.

"Plastic" tanks are usually made of acrylic, lucite, plexiglass or perspex or something similar (they are all trade names of methyl methacrylate). They can be moulded or cast in one or more pieces and/or "glued" together. The "glue" is in fact a chemical catalyst that reassembles the polymers at the join. It sort of welds the two pieces back into one like magic!

It is more expensive than glass and is susceptible to scratches, although they are easy to polish out, unlike scratches in glass. It is also stronger and lighter and "more transparent".

Morning Guys,

This is my 4th attempt at replying, because for some reason the new site wouldn't let me post....it seems to have woken up now

Anyway, thanks for your advice, Sue and Steve.  A few more questions I am afraid.
Sticking with the Rio for the moment, would you advise to change the filter anyway?  You say, Sue, that it is rated at less than five times turnover and ok for non-messy fish.  What do you consider non-messy fish? Would I be better to just get a more powerful filter anyway?  If so, any advice on what one that would keep a 180 nice and clean?

I'm glad it wasn't just me that thought that review site was a bit wonky. I had told 'Him Indoors' that we had to get a tank that had T5 bulbs fitted because I have live plants and knew that the Juwel had these....only to read on that site that the bulbs with this tank were no good for plant growing   It doesn't take much to confuse me and I thought I had got completely muddled somewhere about the lighting I need.  So, that's good now, as long as I get T5's plants will be OK.

Steve...stupid question no. 532...I would have thought that acrylic tanks would get that kind of dull, opaque look after a while, and that glass would be clearer?  Or am I thinking of old-fashioned perspex stuff?  Also, wouldn't it be harder to clean algae off of acrylic, certainly if you have to scrape it at all?
Would you recommend glass or acrylic?

I haven't googled any acrylic tanks yet, but I shall as soon as I have posted this.

Another thought about the Rio....is that lid quite strong?  I only ask as Alice, one of my cats, has been known to lay on my current lid in order to experience that 'under-fur heating' effect!  I could do without suddenly finding I have a new 'cat' fish in my tank!

Thank you for your help, I'm sure there will be more questions...I don't want to get this purchase wrong...I'll never hear the end of it.....

Resa
 

PS. If you think about it, it is actually fair that I get 180 tank, as you have more tanks than me, so will probably still have more litreage (is that a word?) .  Also, it was actually H.I. idea to go bigger as him and my son keep going on about the fish they like just for me to keep saying, "can't have one, the tanks not big enough".  They now actually say, "oo, we like that fish....no, don't say it....the tanks not big enough" in some sort of strange voice that is supposed to be me
Of course, it doesn't mean I will allow them their fish choice, but I shall be keeping that quiet until after I have my new tank

Steve...stupid question no. 532...I would have thought that acrylic tanks would get that kind of dull, opaque look after a while, and that glass would be clearer?  Or am I thinking of old-fashioned perspex stuff?  Also, wouldn't it be harder to clean algae off of acrylic, certainly if you have to scrape it at all?

It gets that opaque dull look because it's scratched. Lots of tiny scratches usually caused by incorrect cleaning. It is fairly simple to polish these out. Cleaning algae shouldn't be a problem but you have to use the right tools.

Would you recommend glass or acrylic?

Yes I would. I'm not sure I have much of a preference except that glass is cheaper and more easily available for 180 litre tanks.

PS. If you think about it, it is actually fair that I get 180 tank, as you have more tanks than me, so will probably still have more litreage (is that a word?).

The word is volume.

I like 'litreage' - I'm going to try and drop that into a conversation and see what people say.