Author Topic: Lighting....... (Im so sorry!)...... particularly LEDs (Read 22292 times) 28 replies

Chucklett · « **Reply #20 on:** December 15, 2012, 09:57:16 AM »

Tongue & Groove plastic? I didnt know you could get such a thing!

I can picture what you've said and yeah, it seems pheasible to do it like that with my tank if need be

And I could cope working with plastic - its metal I hate! Shame the GroBeams wont fit in my 3ft tank though. They wont even go in like this because of the bracing bar. Arcadias it is then!

Photos always welcome if you get chance Don, thankyou

Helen · « **Reply #21 on:** December 16, 2012, 08:00:25 PM »

I find looking at upgrades for my tank a bit addictive and irresistible! So of course lighting and therefore LEDs are on the list. I did consider T5s, but as I've set all my plants up for being low light levels, T5s would mean I'd have to start again with a lot of my plant choices!

I've also been looking at the Seneye, and changing / amending the top layer of my substrate!

Have you considered the Aquaray tiles for your 3 ft tank? Because they are square (from what I understand) you might be able to put one tile either side of the bracing bar? They also fit with the same mounting rails as the Grobeams.

I can understand why you are not as worried about the lighting levels from the LEDs if you leave your tubes till they fail!

When sorting out my cracked tank, I ended up with an extra set of tubes, so have yet to fork out for new ones and was able to change the tubes after about 9 months. The difference in lighting levels between the old and new tubes was actually enough for me to be able to see. So I am more keen to change the tubes before they die. And I am coming up to the stage of needing another tube change. This might be why I've got a small amount of persistent algae that I'm struggling to get rid of.

And my birthday is at the end of Jan, so starting off the Grobeam system might be a good request.

Chucklett · « **Reply #22 on:** December 16, 2012, 11:32:45 PM »

I have looked at the tiles Helen. I fell off my perch at the price! Im not sure they would fit without removing the light unit because of the way its shaped to take tubes, I dont know squares would go in! (look at yours and you'll see what I mean!) Also, two squares would have to go either at the front or at the back whereas ideally they should be down the centre, either side of the bracing bar. The only way to do that would be to take the light unit out and make a new centre strip of hood....... deja vu!

Actually, I had hoped that LEDs would leave me open to some slightly higher-light requiring plants! Obviously Ive since learnt that wont be the case. Im not too worried about that though - my main reasons are because they are cooler/cheaper running, I can get rid of the reflector strips, sunrise/sunset functions on the controller and they give a funky shimmer effect. Plants will be trial & error - apart from the cryptocoryne, plants arent doing very well in that tank (4ft) anyway. Im looking at trying something else down the back/side, but I dont know what!

By the way, I came up with a bright idea last night whilst fighting with the reflectors during a water change. Ive pegged the wretched things to the hood with small bulldog clips!!!!!

It was my war with black brush algae a couple of years ago that left me dreading new tubes. I changed 2 buckets of water every night without fail for about 10 - 12 weeks (on top of my weekly maintenance). I won the battle but it left me with the fear that as soon as I replace the tubes, the BBA would return with avengeance.

My birthday is the beginning of January

Helen · « **Reply #23 on:** December 17, 2012, 01:24:52 PM »

I have to admit, I've not looked at the tiles very much, just that they are available. I don't even know what size they are! The way I understand the T8 end caps and the mounting rails, I was thinking that you could use the end caps on the mounting rails and 'sling' the tiles underneath, either side of the bracing bar. Using both the front and rear mounting rails to fix both tiles. I can see what you're saying that this might be a long shot.

By the way, what I've read and experienced in my tank, is that BBA is entirely due to fluctuating CO2 levels. I had a problem with this prior to installing CO2 injection. Now the issue only returns when I've not noticed that the CO2 has run out. Because water changes introduce more CO2 into the tank water, increasing the frequency of water changes will reduce the variation in CO2 levels. I've also managed to increase the reaction time I have for changing CO2 cannisters by lowering the outlet of my filter. So I don't actually have ripples on the surface of the water, but it is clear that the flow is about an inch below the surface.

Seeing as you particularly like the ripple effect, this is unlikely to be a solution for you. But perhaps, it is something to bear in mind when trying to get the ripple effect with your LEDS, that if you increase the ripple, you will be increasing the rate at which CO2 is released from your tank water, so you may experience BBA, or at least make yourself more vulnerable to it coming back!

January birthdays are great!

Chucklett · « **Reply #24 on:** December 17, 2012, 07:22:33 PM »

I learnt that BBA loves fluctuating CO2 from water changes. The site I read suggested doing NO changes for several weeks to avoid the fluctuations. How gross! So I thought I'd try the opposite by changing some water every night. It took quite a lot of willpower to rigidly stick to it - there was the occasional evening I really could have happily not bothered, but I made myself do it. The payoff was worth it! Three months later, my hairy black cat looked like a lovely dragon-shaped log again LOL! And my beloved SAEs have kept it algae-free ever since

(touch wood - pardon the pun!)

Interesting you say ripples may lead to BBA. I have the spray bar pointing upwards so the returning water breaks the surface - I thought that was a good thing, something to do with air/water reaction (are we still on CO2 here??? $:-\$ )
Funnily enough, the bung out of the end of my spray bar (4ft tank) keeps falling out, thus the water pressure doesnt jet the water out of the holes so harshly (doesnt break the surface) and therefore creates more of a gentle ripple rather than a harsh one like in my 3ft. Ive been thinking that the gentle ripple will give a more relaxing shimmer effect from LEDs, both for me and the fish, and so I might well take the bung out of the 3ft tank if/when I get Arcadias (fingers crossed - I too like January birthdays!!!!

) So Im looking at decreasing the ripple for my LEDs, not increasing it.

Capricorn or Aquarius?

SteveS · « **Reply #25 on:** December 17, 2012, 07:52:45 PM »

Quote from: Chucklett on December 17, 2012, 07:22:33 PM

I have the spray bar pointing upwards so the returning water breaks the surface - I thought that was a good thing, something to do with air/water reaction (are we still on CO2 here??? $:-\$ )

The ripples on the surface promote gas exchange. Oxygen goes from the air into the water and carbon dioxide (CO²) goes from the water to the air. This is why you will see many articles about CO² injection caution you about excessive agitation!

MatthewElliott · « **Reply #26 on:** July 23, 2013, 07:16:26 AM »

Quote from: Chucklett on December 03, 2012, 09:46:57 PM

Oh dear !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For anyone joining in mid-conversation, I have copied below the two posts Im replying to. From experience, lighting seems to be quite a controversial (and bloomin scientific!) subject so this thread may get lengthy....... and complicated $:-\$

I warn you in advance that trying to educate me on this subject will be extremely painful for you. Ask SteveS!

Quote from: Natalia on December 02, 2012, 10:39:36 PM
One word of “worry” from my side – do not rush with the full led light “thingy” as yet when you have plants. I have read tons about it and so far I personally would not be in a hurry to use only LED’s for plants. I am waiting for the LED technology to progress... T5’s are the light of choice at the moment. Combination of the two – fluorescent and LED – works fine (my husband’s tank proves it). This tank has exactly one T8 and an LED strip. This combination works really well – a little bit of shimmer effect, natural colours and the plants are doing great. I know the Kelvins are confusing... Everything which says “daylight” is good, to my opinion. I am not sure about “advertising” of some Companies on the Forum but if you want, I can PM you the details of an online retailer you can buy your bulbs from – much cheaper than branded aquarium bulbs, they do the job just fine...
I was surprised how much yellow Pseudomugil Gertrudae are – with just daylight bulbs they look superb.

You've thrown me Natalia. I remember Don buying TMC GroBeams for his tank and his plants grew like never before. Thick, lush - just what we all desire! I think that may have been what started me wanting LEDs. I have recently read (elsewhere) that LEDs are not as good as T5s (for plants) and so are really only a replacement for T8s. In the debate, someone even commented that (in their opinion) LEDs aren't any better than T8s - probably about the same.

Yes I would very much appreciate details of an online retailer thankyou (I assume you mean T8s?).

Your husbands tank has one T8 flourescent and one LED strip.... Do you mean he has a T8 ballast that takes two T8 tubes, but in one of them has an LED strip instead? Im intrigued because Ive been wondering if thats possible to do. My front tube has gone in my 3ft tank and Ive been wondering if I can put an Arcadia LED strip in its place whilst the back strip remains a T8 flourescent?
Incidentally, at the moment Im interested to see if my anubias nana fairs better without the front light - its planted at the front and suffers Green Spot Algae.

Quote from: Helen on December 03, 2012, 01:11:01 PM
Chucklett, in brief and very simple terms, blue light makes fish look more vibrant and plants tend to prefer red light, though more importantly they like lots of it. This can be compared to radio stations, with blue and red at opposite ends of the dial and plants liking it loud! Plants will do better with any station as long as it is loud and isn't totally blue. How much they like red stations over blue is a matter for debate. White is made up of both blue and red (can think of it as being in the middle of the dial). LEDs tend to have quite a narrow bandwidth - less of each of blue and red, which is why they're not considered so good for plants (less red and less loud).

Terms used for lighting: cool means it has more blue. Warm has more red.

I try to set my two tubes up so the warmer one is at the back (along with red LEDS) and the cooler one is at the front so my cardinal tetras look nice and bright. (Hagen have names for the different colours that confuses me, so I may not have the tubes that way around after I've thrown the boxes away!)

Hope that's a simple enough explanation that doesn't start another long conversation!

Love it Helen I can follow that thankyou!!!

Heres the plot my end:

Both my tanks have 2 x T8 lights. One Hagen AquaGlo and one Hagen PowerGlo. One allegedly better for plant growth the other for fish colour. We have ascertained that the fish in my 4ft tank are not showing their true colours and Im putting this down to my lights. If thats the case, then it would suggest the fish in my 3ft tank should also be more vibrant. Of course, I wouldnt know any different having only seen them in my tank! Ive always thought they look gorgeous!

On the old forum, I looked at changing my lights when I discovered T8s are only really any good for "low light" plants. Changing to T5s is an absolute no-go as that would mean changing the ballast - way beyond my capabilities. And so my heart got set on LEDs. Since then, Ive found other positive reasons to change to LEDs:

1. They are cooler..... I have to put a fan on my tank during the summer to keep the water temp down.

2. They do not need a reflector strip.... Mine are so bent out of shape from the heat of the lights that they no longer stay in place. In fact, they balance precariously on the light tubes with one end or another dipping into the water. Im constantly fiddling with them to get them out of the water. Not only does it look horrible, I worry a fish may catch themselves on it (quite sharp edges for a fish to swim against) and, of course, a fire hazard (possibly paranoia that one). Ive thought about removing them altogether but worry the heat from the tubes would damage the plastic tank lid and again, fire hazard (sorry). New ones are £25 each - thats for the shorter tank. I dont know how much they are for the longer tank. And bear in mind I need two for each tank. A mere £100+ for something that barely lasts 18 months

3. The fish in my 4ft tank freak out when the lights suddenly go off. The TMC GroBeams can be controlled to gradually come on/off like sunrise/sunset. (The controller is extra).

4. Being cheaper to run and giving a lovely shimmer effect are both a great bonus!

In my 4ft tank, the TMC mounting rails will easily retro-fit into my T8 ballast using their T8 end caps. I can then fit a double-strip GroBeam 500 at the front and another double at the back where my tubes currently sit. GroBeam 500s boast "high output Cree XP-E LEDs in 6500K white - equivalent to Natural Daylight. This colour temperature offers a natural look and a spectrum which ensures your plants will thrive!".
Natalia, you said the light should (in your opinion) be between 6000 and 7000 kelvin for plants. These 6500k are bang in there!
I have always struggled to get plants going in this tank. I regularly thin out Vallisneria Tortifolia from my other tank and put the plants over to this one. But they never take. When we moved house 3 months ago, again I put new vallis plants into this tank, along with cryptocoryne and brazilian pennywort. Although the vallis is not looking great (again), it has, for the first time, still got a few green leaves and even new leaves/plantlets trying to come through. I live in hope! The cryptocoryne has completely made itself at home in this tank and is doing extremely well. The brazilian pennywort has grown, but a lot of its leaves seem to be under attack from Green Spot Algae along with another kind of algae - appears to be a brown form of Green Spot Algae. A few new leaves at the top are lush green but Im sure they will soon look as rank as the others.

My 3ft tank, however, is not long enough for the double strips, but too long for singles. Therefore Im looking at getting the Arcadia LEDs for this tank. They too will easily retro-fit into my T8 ballast and sit where my current tubes are. The Daylight tube has a "spectacular natural colour rendition with a high (>8K) colour temperature equally suited for Freshwater or Marine aquariums" whilst the Tropical tube has a "warm colour that enhances the red colours of fish and plants without flattening the iridescent blues of many tropical fish".
Hmmmm, the daylight tube boasts those "higher colour temperatures" that you're not a fan of Natalia, whilst the tropical tubes have a "warm" colour that Helen says is the very radio station plants love!
The only plant issues I have in this tank are that the Anubias Nana suffers from Green Spot Algae and my shrimps (and/or SAEs) enjoy gardening - it looks like Ive gone down the back of the tank with scissors cutting the Twisted Vallis! My cryptocoryne is making a comeback from when we moved house and my Crinum Calamistratum is totally gorgeous - its even sprouted baby plants which I probably should have removed the bulbs from the mother bulb when we moved house, but I didnt dare. I was too scared Id lose the whole thing.

So they're my setups and future lighting plans.

Natalia - I understand your view of waiting for LED technology to progress. But given my problems (especially the flopsy reflectors), I cant help but still think that LEDs currently available wouldnt be any worse for my plants than T8s? If you have time, Im interested to hear your thoughts now that you have more information from my end.

Helen - I may be having a long conversation with myself if everybody remembers what happened last time!

Anyone with LEDs - I'd love to hear your personal experiences, thoughts and opinions on them.

Anyone else - Feel free to air your views.

Thanks [/u]

Thanks for sharing this long but very useful information on lighting.. Can you tell some good affordable leds brands which work well as home lighting?Looking forward for quick reply... Thanks:)

SteveS · « **Reply #27 on:** July 23, 2013, 03:20:31 PM »

Quote from: MatthewElliott on July 23, 2013, 07:16:26 AM

Thanks for sharing this long but very useful information on lighting.. Can you tell some good affordable leds brands which work well as home lighting?Looking forward for quick reply... Thanks:)

Hi Matthew. I must say, up front, I am not going to be able to give you an answer to your question, so you might want to skip the rest of the post. However, I felt that I had to respond as this post annoyed me on several levels and I have a reputation to uphold.

Don't worry, I am not going to be too hard on you; a few flesh wounds, a couple of weeks and you'll be fine.

Firstly, as you noted, the original post was long; there was a lot of information in it; So little, no let me say nothing, was gained by quoting it in full! Your post would have lost nothing without this quote. In fact, it would have gained much. Not least I wouldn't have wasted ages trawling through the original trying to find out why you had quoted it in the first place.

Secondly, it's not good manners to request a quick response. The people who post on these boards do so in their spare time; I'm sure they have little desire to do so on a speculative off-topic post where there are fish dying in the emergency room section, or where people are actually talking about tropical fish, the subject of this forum. If you want to discuss home lighting, either put it in the "general non-fishkeeping chat" section or find a home and beauty forum. (There, my off-topic whinge for the month!

)

"good affordable leds brands which work well as home lighting"! Under what conditions. Do you want a point-source for maintaining wristwatches or do you want a low-level light for a romantic dinner. General soft-lighting for watching the TV or something for the kids to do their homework. Something waterproof for the bathroom or something white for the kitchen. Try and be specific.

Oh and it helps if you try and do some research beforehand. I said I wasn't going to be of any help, but try and google "domestic led lighting".

ColinB · « **Reply #28 on:** July 23, 2013, 04:44:48 PM »

Welcome to the forum, Matthew. I see you've met Steve already.

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Lighting....... (Im So Sorry!)...... Particularly LEDs

Lighting....... (Im So Sorry!)...... Particularly LEDs

Author Topic: Lighting....... (Im so sorry!)...... particularly LEDs (Read 22292 times) 28 replies

Chucklett

Re: Lighting....... (Im so sorry!)...... particularly LEDs

Helen

Re: Lighting....... (Im so sorry!)...... particularly LEDs

Chucklett

Re: Lighting....... (Im so sorry!)...... particularly LEDs

Helen

Re: Lighting....... (Im so sorry!)...... particularly LEDs

Chucklett

Re: Lighting....... (Im so sorry!)...... particularly LEDs

SteveS

Re: Lighting....... (Im so sorry!)...... particularly LEDs

MatthewElliott

Re: Lighting....... (Im so sorry!)...... particularly LEDs

SteveS

Re: Lighting....... (Im so sorry!)...... particularly LEDs

ColinB

Re: Lighting....... (Im so sorry!)...... particularly LEDs

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