Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => Fish Tanks and Equipment => Topic started by: barneyadi on December 13, 2019, 02:20:11 PM
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Hi All
Have always disliked the Juwel filter in one of my tanks and have decided to remove it to match the other tank where someone had already done that. I was thinking to just purchase another internal filter to match other tank but wondering if I should consider an external filter for each tank.
Done some reading up and seems an external filter is an upgrade but wondering what peoples opinions are. What will an external filter do better than an internal one?
Thanks
David
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I have only ever used internal filters, mainly because my husband thinks I'll not set them back up properly after a water change and the carpet will get drowned.
I'll let those members with externals tell you what they find are the pros and cons, but I can give you my feelings about internals.
One disadvantage is that when you lift them out to clean the, a lot of debris falls back into the tank.
But the internals I've had have been easy to remove from the tank to clean them; and if you choose the model carefully the media can still be customised like with externals.
But there are a couple of myths to bear in mind.
Having an external filter does not mean you can have more fish. As long as there is enough media to house the bacteria needed by the fish in the tank, having more media will not mean more bacteria. Yes, I know the Community Creator says you can have more fish, but we fought hard to get the numbers reduced from what they used to be - when the CC was programmed, it was done believing this myth.
More water flow is not better. Yes, it is better from those fish which originate is fast flowing rivers but there are many fish which come from slow moving water and need less water flow. The amount of water flow needs to match the needs of the fish in the tank.
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I just want the best for the fish, so seems an external filter might be way to go. Fluval seem highly regarded although so do some Eheim, Tetra, Cristal Profi by JBL, V2 Poerbox by TMC and Aquia Pro by Aquaone seem well regarded as well.
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The main advantage to me for an external is that it removes equipment from the tank. Mine also has a built in heater so in effect there is no equipment in my tank apart from a inlet and outlet (both glass Lilly pipe type and largely hidden anyway).
I've not had any problems with leaks but of course they do have the potential to drain a good portion of the tank if they were to occur. Personally I feel that these ear easily enough avoidable through ensuring everything is set up correctly/robustly.
Externals are more expensive and it is definately worth paying good money for one. My preference would be the Oase Biomaster Thermo series. These have a priming button, quick release pre-filter so maintenance is virtually bill provided you give this a rinse under the tap every now and then. They are also quiet.
It's difficult to compare noise from an internal to an external as it largely depends on pump power, I have found advantage to having noise insulation the the cupboard when using an external but that's not to necessarily say it's louder than an internal replacement, just something I've found that reduces noise.
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I use a mix of internal & external filters.
I started with internal filters & small tanks. As the tanks gave got bigger I've moved towards external filters.
I agree with Sue that one of the disadvantages of internal filters is when it drops muck back into the tank when being removed. I have a plastic jug kept specifically for putting into the tank & putting the internal filter into, before removing jug & internal filter to avoid dropping anything back into the tank.
I'm not too bothered about having equipment in the tank, so I've been happy with the internal filters in the smaller tanks.
As for external filters, I will openly admit by love of the Fluval FX filters. I love the drain port at the bottom, which with the addition of a piece of hose long enough to reach the garden, makes draining water from the tanks so easy. I have FX4s on several tanks, and have 2 FX4s and an FX6 on the river tank (400L). There is no priming botton, just put the water in the filter, attach the pipes & switch on. these filters also switch off briefly every 12 hours to remove any air from the system. I have also put extra media into my filters. I think the FX filters are relatively quiet for what they are, though I admit that the FX6 can make the doors on the cabinet vibrate slightly, which is louder than the filter. There is no priming button, just put the water in the filter, attach the pipes & switch on. these filters also switch off briefly every 12 hours to remove any air from the system.
I also have a Fluval 306 on the tiger barb tank, and a Fluval 206 attached to the chiller unit for the axolotls. They have worked well, are quite compact, so don't take up much space in the cabinet. The priming button can be a bit stiff, and there's no drain port like on the FX, but they're great little filters.
I will admit that I use trays underneath all of my external filters for two reasons. Firstly, I know what I'm like with water, and tend to be quite "splashy" during tanks maintenance & water changes. It's relatively common for me to spill water, or forget to completely close a valve before removing a hose ::) The second reason is because the FX filters have little rubber feet, which makes it almost impossible to slide the filter out of the cabinet for cleaning. Having it on a tray makes it much easier.
I'm sure you'll be able to find a filter that works well for you, your tank, and your fish. :)
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I'm looking at a Fluval 207 as both my tanks are only 125l. But quite like the look of the JBL Christaprof1.
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I have 2 JBL Cristalprofi e150x series on my 270 litre tank. I find them very quiet in use and easy to remove and clean. They are also very efficient in terms of electrical consumption.
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@Littlefish I was actually thinking of getting an FX6 when I upgrade one of my canisters on the big tank. I have read they are a bit of a pain to get into the canister for cleaning. Have you found this to be the case?
I have found that it's ok as long as I remember to do things in the right order.
I sometimes find it a bit difficult to do stuff with the FX6 because there isn't much room in the cabinet (multiple FX filters for river tank), but once the pressure has been released, and I can remove the hoses to get the canister out of the cabinet, it's all good. Obviously the FX4s are easier as they are a bit smaller.
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When you come to remove the Juwel filter, it is pretty easy. I removed the one in my old Rio 125. You will need a longish bendy knife and a razor blade (the kind used for decorating), and do it during a water change. There are blobs of a silicone type stuff, two at the top and two at the bottom on each side in contact with the tank. Gently pull the top away from one side and saw through the two blobs - if the tank is full, the sawing will cause a tidal wave which is why you need to do it during a water change. Once you've done those blobs, do the other top pair next. Then the bottom four. There will be some black stuff left on the glass. Use the razor blade to scrape it off.
Be careful not to touch the tank's corner sealant.
Don't forget that you'll need to put the media in the new filter. This is easier with an external :)
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Thanks guys for all your advice and views. At the moment I think I might go for the Fluval 207. Im looking at inline heaters, there are some on ebay that look very similar to a make recommended to me (Feileng) and cheaper than the Hydor ones but seem to have a different name. More looking I think.
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Hi @barneyadi
I think most people have covered the key factors when deciding on internal vs. external. I use internals in my tanks up to 50 litres. And an external filter (Eheim Ecco Pro) on my 125 litre tank. Regarding the issue of leakage and wet carpets, etc., I have a low-voltage float switch arrangement that I built. It switches off the filter if the tank water level drops by less than one centimetre. There are commercial products that do the same. I also have a simple water leak alarm with the sensor itself in my under-tank cupboard*. The alarm itself is on the outside of the cupboard and is extremely loud in the event of a leak.
JPC
* affectionately known as 'The Engine Room'
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Nice filter. Quiet & compact.
That is the newer version of the ones I have, and perfect for your size tank. :cheers:
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I am wondering if the Fluval 107 would work. It says it is for tanks upto 130l, mine is 125l but of course it will be less with substrate in etc.
Any thoughts?
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I'm sure that the 107 would work on your tank, as it is within the correct range of tank sizes.
I've always tended to go for larger filters, and would probably put the 207 on a 125L. I have a 306 on my 200L. I can't really explain my reasoning behind going for larger filters. I think it's a combination of the filter specifications being tested without media, assuming that the flow rate will be decreased by the addition of the media, and decrease further as the media gets dirty between maintenance. It may also have something to do with my liking of fish that produce a lot of waste (plecs, puffers).
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As Littlefish has said, bear in mind quoted flow rates may not be seen in real life, especially if you plan on attaching an in line heater, this will add resistance and slow the flow further. I have a filter rated for a 300litre tank on my 220litre and would say that the flow rate in reality is quite low.
There are a few ways to reduce flow but not to increase it beyond what the pump can achieve.
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Thanks for advice folks. I have seen another filter, an Oase BioMaster Thermo 250 which has a heater built in. It seems to get lots of good reviews. Flow rate is 7.2 times for my tank but of course after adding aquarium soil and landscaping it will be less than 125l.
I think either this one or the Fluval 207 is way to go, of course need to add heater for the Fluval.
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Very well known brand, and looks like a good filter. Again, very neat and compact looking, and with a built in heater. I've not used one of these filters, but looks perfect for your tank.
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I've read very favourable reviews about it elsewhere.
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I've read very favourable reviews about it elsewhere.
Any ideas where you read those reviews?
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Watch from 8mins. Don't worry too much about the planted tank chat - this mainly applies to a high tech setup.
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https://www.aquariumgardens.co.uk/oase-biomaster-thermo-250-aquarium-external-filter-2387-p.asp
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Watch from 8mins. Don't worry too much about the planted tank chat - this mainly applies to a high tech setup.
https://www.aquariumgardens.co.uk/oase-biomaster-thermo-250-aquarium-external-filter-2387-p.asp
Thanks @Matt and @Littlefish that all helps. As I will be running a low tech tank, is flow not as important as in a high tech one?
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In a low tech tank it's easier (in my opinion) to focus on what your fish prefer rather than what the plants need. :)
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Any ideas where you read those reviews?
In the very same place as I think you posted 6 hours ago. ;)
If you do a search within that group for OASE, you'll see previous comments on their filter.
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I am wondering if the Fluval 107 would work.
Hi @barneyadi
Are the Fluval external filters still supplied with those awful, corrugated, inflexible hoses?
JPC
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I have seen another filter, an Oase BioMaster Thermo 250 which has a heater built in.
Hi @barneyadi
I have heard good things about the Oase filters. They built up an excellent reputation with their pond filters. Out of interest, is it possible to see when the built-in heater is ON (i.e. actually heating) from the exterior of the filter? Is there an indicator or window through which one can see, at a glance, when the heater is ON?
JPC
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I have seen another filter, an Oase BioMaster Thermo 250 which has a heater built in.
Hi @barneyadi
I have heard good things about the Oase filters. They built up an excellent reputation with their pond filters. Out of interest, is it possible to see when the built-in heater is ON (i.e. actually heating) from the exterior of the filter? Is there an indicator or window through which one can see, at a glance, when the heater is ON?
JPC
I dont think you can see if heater is on, from things i have looked at online. If I get one I will let you know.
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I have seen another filter, an Oase BioMaster Thermo 250 which has a heater built in.
Hi @barneyadi
I have heard good things about the Oase filters. They built up an excellent reputation with their pond filters. Out of interest, is it possible to see when the built-in heater is ON (i.e. actually heating) from the exterior of the filter? Is there an indicator or window through which one can see, at a glance, when the heater is ON?
JPC
I dont think you can see if heater is on, from things i have looked at online. If I get one I will let you know.
Hi @barneyadi
There are quite a few times when I find it handy to be able to see at a glance if the heater is actually ON. But, that may not be important to you.
JPC
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Can I ask one last question about filters. I understand that flow rates are important to a degree, depending on the fish. Supposedly upto 10 times the tank literage is a supposedly good mark. Would this apply to both internal and external filters, or can you get away with a lower rate on an internal?
The externals I have looked at are about 7 to 8 times which seems sufficient.
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The x times turnover per hour. There is no 'good' figure to aim for. Instead, consider the fish. Sedate fish need a low flow rate. Fish from fast running streams need a higher flow rate.
Unless you have fish from fast running streams, 7 to 8 times per hour is too much.
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The x times turnover per hour. There is no 'good' figure to aim for. Instead, consider the fish. Sedate fish need a low flow rate. Fish from fast running streams need a higher flow rate.
Unless you have fish from fast running streams, 7 to 8 times per hour is too much.
Thanks Sue
That makes sense. The 7 to 8 times is maximum so can work it at a reduced flow. Time for a decision I think.
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That's a different matter. As long as they can be turned down it's fine :)
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If the filter flow rated can't be adjusted, they are other ways to reduce the impact of the flow to keep your fish happy. It's relatively easy to increase the width of the output nozzle or spray bay holes so the water movement is reduced, or baffle it with the addition of some coarse filter sponge, or even putting the output slightly lower in the tank and pointing more upwards, rather than having the flow going directly across the tank.
On the axolotl forum it's quite common for people to be told to point their output more towards the back or side of the tank to reduce the water flow, as strong water movement can be very stressful for them.
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Thanks for everyone's help regarding filters. Has been extremely interesting and believe I have decided which way to go.
Although could still change my mind. ;D
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Oooh the suspense..... :rotfl:
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Ladies & gentlemen, the winning filter is........ ;)
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Well unless I talk myself out of it, it will be...………………
BioPlus Thermo 200 Internal Corner Filter
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Oh, just had to go check it out.
That corner design looks good.
Let us know how you get on with it. :)
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Ah - I've just remembered now that I was swaying between that and the JBL corner filter which I ultimately ended up getting. There is one downside of the JBL corner filter - not sure if the same would apply to the one you've chosen but, if so, there is a way of rectifying it. Mine has suction cups on the uppermost section but not on the 'basket' sections below that. This resulted in the filter floating out from the corner at the base, with fish and snails ending up behind it. I rectified this by contacting a couple of magnet companies who were extremely helpful about waterproof, very strong magnets - one half of which are inside the filter and the other half of which are on the external part of the tank. If this ends up being a problem for you (and hopefully it won't), I can give you the contact details of the very helpful magnet companies and the magnets themselves.
Aside from that initial problem, I do like the corner design aesthetically.
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I have not come across those filters before as I've had mine for years and not needed to replace them. The filters I have also have the modular design, which I like. But mine don't have the option for housing a heater - that will make the tank look a lot less cluttered.
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Well unless I talk myself out of it, it will be...………………
BioPlus Thermo 200 Internal Corner Filter
Lol, I didn't see that coming. Was convinced you had decided on an external filter. Looks like a nice neat unit, and a great price, especially including a heater with it :)
I was convinced i would go way of external but this filter looks neat and of course cheaper than external and as I need two I can spend my monies on other nice things.
I have not come across those filters before as I've had mine for years and not needed to replace them. The filters I have also have the modular design, which I like. But mine don't have the option for housing a heater - that will make the tank look a lot less cluttered.
I came across them by accident to be honest but the built in heater sold it to me.
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I was convinced i would go way of external but this filter looks neat and of course cheaper than external and as I need two I can spend my monies on other nice things.
I will be really interested to hear what you think of it when you get it @barneyadi As I have mentioned I will need to replace my old Fluval 205 in the near future. This thread has really got me thinking an internal may be a better option for my 125lt tank. I have the Fluval placed down the side of my sideboard that the tank resides on, so it would definitely be neater :)
Hopefully pick them up Monday, so will take some pics and let you have a look.