Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => Fish Tanks and Equipment => Topic started by: MarquisMirage on November 24, 2016, 09:22:12 PM
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For the project for the 400+l tank I've decided to try the following setup.
A custom made 48"x24"x24" (122x61x61 cm) tank and cabinet. 60" was an option but feel it would be total overkill for my house. The selected tank will have 10mm Pilkington float glass, OptiWhite front and sides, and a vinyl background (not sure if black or blue yet). The main tank volume will be around 400 l.
It will have a 43″x18″x17″ (109x46x43 cm) sump tank that will be used as a filter and possibly a refugium. The added system water will be around 120 l. The first section of the sump will be filled with filter cotton, sponge, and ceramic filter. The first section has a volume of around 40 l which should be plenty of filtration. The middle part of the sump will maybe be used as a densely planted refugium on a reverse light cycle to the main tank to minimise potential water parameter fluctuations caused by night/day cycle in the main tank. The reason I went for a sump is that the Fluval Fx6 external I was looking at would have been around the same price as a sump and return pump. It'll give me the option to go marine in many years if I want to (although at the moment I have no interest in marine).
The sump return pump I'm looking at is the Eheim Compact 3000. This should be overpowered for my main tank size but it'll be good if some performance is lost to have the option to turn it up a bit. It also takes away the need for an additional circulation pump in the main tank.
In the pump return section I also plan on putting a Eheim Jager Heaterstat 300w heater. Again it's oversized for the setup but I don't want it working too hard. I have two thermometers I'll place at different ends of the main tank.
Looks like Eheim are equipping the tank! I also have a Eheim Air Pump 400 to add extra oxygen though I'm not sure it'll be necessary but could be deployed if I find a dead spot in the tank or just for the fish to play with.
The lighting system I'm looking at is the E Shine Nemo 72 Tropical Planted LED lighting system. I was initially looking at T5's but with a new tank you may as well go for LED's as they don't need yearly replacement and are cheaper to run. This particular lighting system is nice as it's channel adjustable and has some fun modes.
And finally, or firstly, I've already purchased the recommended API master kit.
Hopefully the plants will stop a widespread outbreak of algae so I've counted out a UV clarifier for now. If I've missed anything or you have some tips please let me know.
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You have included a 300w heater in your setup.. to my mind this sounds underpowered for a 520litre total volume. Rule of as thumb is to have as many watts as litres so I would add another 300w heater in addition to the one you already have... unless your room temperature will be very close indeed to the intended tank temperature?
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I'm not familiar with sumps, so I can't comment on that bit. But a 300w heater would be suitable for the tank alone. Add in the volume of the sump and you do need more, as Matt has already said.
My 180 litre is custom built, 10mm Pilkington glass and front panel in opti-white. I must admit I do like the 10 mm glass as my last tank had 6 mm glass and started to bow when the bracer bar became unattached. Thicker glass just gives so much more reassurance :)
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The Eheim Jager Heaterstat 300w heater is a beast at 51 cm long. The increased surface area of the heater allows for a more consistent temperature in a large tank and the manufacturer recommends the heater for a 600-1000 l aquarium. I've purchased multiple thermometers and will monitor the water when the aquarium is setup from different points in it. If the heater doesn't work from the sump (or fit!) I'll move it to the main tank and test from there. If that doesn't work I'll get another heater. It'll be a month or so after aquascaping before I'll put any fish in so it should be OK.
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@marquismirage I'm just catching up in this thread. You can of course use two small heaters instead of one whopper and this will give some redundancy/backup if you have a failure. I use a separate temperature controller with just the sensing element in the tank - this isn't affected by the heaters own local temperature so its more accurate and is measuring temperature where you need it. You can then set the heaters thermostat a couple of degrees above the tank control temperature and this again gives more redundancy to the system if a thermostat welds in the closed (on) position
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An update. I've managed to convince my wife that 60" isn't too big. So the main tank will be 60" x 24" x 24" at 495 l with the 120 l sump for a system volume of 615 l.
Sump definitely will be wet/dry filter to refugium to equipment/return pump.
Previous light option won't fit a 5 ft tank so that will now be a Fluval Fresh & Plant 2.0 Pro Performance LED.
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Wow this is an exciting project! Please keep us updated (with pictures where you can :cheers: ).
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If I'm not being rude.
How much is the tank costing?
It sounds awesome.
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The tank, cabinet, and sump will be £1224 inc. delivery from ndaquatics. Of the companies I contacted they had the best communications. Some of the other companies didn't seem to read what I had asked. They do pallet drop so I'm going to have to find a team of strapping young men to help me out.
Electronics such as the sump pump, heaters, lighting, etc. will be around £465. There'll be some DIY elements as I want to create a rain bar for the sump return, a distributer at the sump in end to even out filtration, and some kind of net/cover on the weir to stop fishes getting in. I already have 7 square metres of filter sponge and 10 kgs of ceramics.
I've factored in £300 for hardscaping. Rocks will be dragonstone, redmoor for wood, and some driftwood for plecos. There'll be pipes and things to create caves for fishes to hide in.
It'll be a month or two more before I even get the tank. Though with my wife talking about moving it's best to wait until I know where it's going. :/ This is helping spread the cost as I'm buying bits and pieces as I go along.
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My 180 litre is an ND Aquatics tank and I was not only impressed with the company but also the quality of their tanks and cabinets.
I was lucky that at the time they were having problems with their courier so decided to deliver a batch of tanks to north east England themselves. Normally we are well outside their delivery area.
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When I was looking for some larger tanks Sue mentioned ND Aquatics, so I visited them (approx. an hour drive). They were a very nice crowd, happy to chat, had a lot of information, samples of cabinet wood to take away to see if it was the correct colour, and they gave me a tour of their manufacturing facilities. Their prices were also very reasonable for the amount of work that went into their tanks & cabinets.
I couldn't get the set up that I wanted because the landlord had concerns about the weight, so I've ended up with the Aqua Oak tanks, rather than the custom made tanks.
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I also have a ND tank, it was third hand but the cabinet strength and material quality has really impressed me, it still looks like new.
It was a marine initially, bodged to a Discus tank by the second owner and I have then rebodged it again and its withstood all of that.
Allow a fair bit for the pipework, if you do anything non-standard in the sump, use the correct diameter pipe and FIT VALVES AND CONNECTIONS they are big items but believe me they are so useful when you need to tweak or maintain.
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... had concerns about the weight...
Me too. I'm thinking of thick wood and polystyrene below the cabinet to spread the weight a bit but I need to look into it more.
use the correct diameter pipe and FIT VALVES AND CONNECTIONS they are big items but believe me they are so useful when you need to tweak or maintain.
Tell me about it. I'm very worried about a potential snail problem and them getting stuck in the in/out pipes. For the rain bar I was thinking a one way valve before a connector. Not sure how to snail proof the weir. Maybe filter foam in front of the slits with thin knife cuts. But that leaves a concern of slowing the water leaving the main tank and flooding. If you have tips I'd welcome them.
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Should be possible to have the filter foam only reach a certain height so that if it does block then the water can still flow over it without overflowing the tank itself... did that make sense?
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@marquismirage
Snails shouldn't be a problem, unless they are huge and or in massive numbers. I use 2" pipe for the feed to the sump and that will take some blocking. Initially I was concerned about the tank overflowing but later realised that even if I managed to get all of the water out of the sump and into the tank it still wouldn't overflow. You will see marine guys going to great lengths to protect against overflow but they often have a whole room for the 'sump' and massive water volumes. I fear the sump overflows more, but the most likely cause for this is power failure and overflow is prevented by correct height of the weir and allowing sufficient sump capacity when you fill the system to accommodate the drain back from the tank.
I do protect the overflow box after I had a nasty incident with the fish getting into it (it's a long story) I used tapestry mat above the weir teeth and as Matt mentioned any blockage just flows over it.
I'm not sure about the need for a one way valve on the rain bar - presumably it will be above the water level and the holes quite small?
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I'm not sure about the need for a one way valve on the rain bar - presumably it will be above the water level and the holes quite small?
Hmm, I realise I haven't explained that quite well. Not so much an actual rain bar. Basically a one way valve attached to a tee connector with approx. 10" pipe each side with end caps. It'll be 2-3" below water. It'll be angled to halfway down the tank allowing the heated water from the sump to circulate more effectively. Hopefully that will eliminate the need for a separate circulation pump. The one way valve should stop backflow in the event of a power outage.
@Matt @Andy the minion
I have some of that Japanese Matting filter media knocking about. Do you think that would do the trick?
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@marquismirage
Okay then snails are going to be an issue. If the one way valve is to prevent a syphon back to the sump then its risky, even a grain of sand would prevent a seal and allow a slow flow downwards. Maybe it will take half an hour, but it will still fill the sump. If the sump can cope with this then no problem - but then the valve is not really needed either :)
A solution if part of the pipe is above the waterline is to drill a syphon break. Start small and increase the size until it easily breaks the syphon. If however the flow out of the hole with the pump is on is useful then just size the hole for the circulation you need.
The matting would do the job, make sure to support it adequately so it doesn't slip onto the down pipe, a head of water is surprisingly powerful. It will clog so make sure to add it to the list of routine maintenance items
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A solution if part of the pipe is above the waterline is to drill a syphon break. Start small and increase the size until it easily breaks the syphon. If however the flow out of the hole with the pump is on is useful then just size the hole for the circulation you need.
Understood. Would two syphon breaks be better in case one is snailed?
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Certainly @marquismirage , unless the evil snails start co-operating....
I have several in my pipework because I use them to create surface movement for aeration and ripple effects in the lighting.
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Definitely require photos, this tank sounds awesome!
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@marquismirage I re-read your original post Did you look at DC return pumps? The ac pumps are adjustable but this is a mechanical blockage on all the ones I have seen whereas DC have speed control which is much more efficient I have 12000 litre running at 5000 litres this drops the power from 85W back to 50W and as its running much slower it's quieter. The AC pumps will still be trying to deliver their full output against the blockage and may actually be louder and use more power. My 12000litre was just over £100 but they do smaller versions.
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Did you look at DC return pumps?
I hadn't as this is my first sump. I was only looking at what I know to be good brands. I'll have a look now.
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Did you look at DC return pumps?
I've looked into them and compared to the basic pumps they seem almost too good to be true! What make of pump do you have? Do you think the Jeboa pumps will be OK. I love the advice you're giving. :)
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@marquismirage
I have a Jecod DCS12000 but I have seen Jabao and Jecod used interchangeably, same with the DCS12000/DCT12000. I was never able to discover the differences and for sure they will be a copy of one of the early expensive German DC designs, but they certainly work well. Mine is running at 5000l/hr and is almost completely silent, even with the cabinet doors open.
It has the feed button that shuts it down for 10minutes, @Sue I don't tend to shut down to feed but I can definitely see the advantage after your experience.
It seems to be impossible to search for DC pumps without getting the majority of hits being for them. I have since seen that TMC have a DC pump, it will no doubt be Chinese, but if you want a recognised name on it you could look at that as well.
I tested mine in a water butt when I received it as I was building up the parts gradually, under 3foot of water it still produced a jet of water 6" above the surface. Stupidly I had tried it in a 30litre bucket before that, but it flung all the water out in a plume and soaked me before it got anywhere near full speed :)
As with filters the pump is the one really critical moving part, if you can get a spare ....just in case. I had an external filter spring a leak once, and it really concentrates the mind if you know you HAVE to be able to fix it.