Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => Fish Tank Plant Advice => Topic started by: Puffin on May 06, 2014, 08:51:18 PM
-
Just been doing some reading on growing aquatic plants. Several people suggest not bothering with specially made substrates and just use soil covered with sand or gravel. Sounds good to me, but could you be more specific? What product do you buy from the garden centre exactly? Potting compost?
I presume, seeing as everyone is SO careful when adding wood / stones from nature to the aquarium, that you don't mean go in the garden and dig up some topsoil?
Then again someone mentioned bacteria in the soil keeping the water chemistry stable.
Many thanks if you are able to clarify.
-
I'm afraid that your assumption as to the source of the soil is in error. People who propose this solution are indeed talking about wandering into your back yard and digging up some soil. The basic idea is to have a layer of soil and then to cover it over with a layer of gravel. The main proponent of this school of thought was Diana Walstad in her international best-selling bodice ripper, "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium". You may find a copy at your local library. It's nowhere near as dull as it sounds.
If you don't wish to follow this train of reasoning, there are numerous ways to go ranging from "Just lump a few bags of sand or gravel in and trust to luck" to building up layers of specialist substrate. It depends on your aims and asperations and how seriously you wish to take up aquatic gardening.
The main key is in selecting lights, fertilisation, substrates and effortfulness (is that a word?) so as to compliment the species of plant you are trying to grow.
Without lots more information from you as to how you see your planted tank progressing, it really isn't possible to present you with a list of suitable products I'm afraid.
-
i have a layer of soil in the bottom of my tank which was actualy stolen from my neighbours garden (shhhh :rotfl: )
he had recently just dug a large section of his flower bed over and never uses in chemicals so i thort would be easier to wait till he went out rather than try to find soil in my weed garden.
my layer of soil is rangeing from half a inch thick to one inch thick at the back on top pf this i have a 3/4 inch layer of sand . the plants i have in are listed as easy plants to grow, they have been in the tank now for almost 3 weeks and i am pleased to say there all seem to be doing well there was some initial loss of leavs and some browning but all seem to be recovering quite nicely now even growing and spreading out . can highly recomend this method althow is a little tricky when vacuming the tank floor
-
I've been one of the main proponents of the soil layer idea here. I now have 11 tanks set up in this way, an inch of garden soil covered with an inch of sand/gravel. Plants in all tanks are thriving. Go to the Tropica Aquarium Plants web site to find suitable plants, stick to the ones they list as easy and they will all do well with this substrate and normal lighting. In my opinion, there are too many rip offs in fish keeping, where things which are not necessary, such as expensive gravel additives and enhanced lighting, are promoted as being essential.
Not everyone is "SO careful" about what they put in their tanks. All of the "rocks" in mine are large stones which I have dug up from my allotment, they are washed to get off the dirt then put in. I can't see any reason why anyone would boil a rock before adding it to an aquarium, there is no way it could introduce a disease. The one thing to be very careful about adding is other fish, they are the potential carriers of disease, not soil, rocks, wood or any other inanimate object.
-
Thanks everyone, that's great.
Not sure how happy I am to add my garden soil to a tank... Lots of bits of glass, sharp stones, heavy clay, bits of plastic wrapper. I found an old style ring pull while planting potatoes a few weeks back! The joys of inner city living.
Definitely no potting compost then?!? Out of a nice bag? ;)
Actually I'm all for freebies where you can get away with it, I have heather branches soaking in a tub, and stones in a different one, ready to test pH and KH to see if the affect them.
Thanks for your help.
Not got as far as choosing a tank yet, no hurry the sideboard hasn't arrived yet either, so don't need any help choosing plants just yet.
-
you could try to sieve the soil first i did this to remove any worms and creepy crawlies from the soil after reading one of richards post about them decaying.it would remove all them bits of litter that are in the soil (or you could try steel it from my neighbour to :rotfl: )
-
Most potting compost consists almost entirely of organic matter, be it peat or a substitute. Over time, this will decay and break down, not good for your tank. Potting composts also contain far too much fertiliser. John Innes Number 1 would be best, this is a mixture of loam, sand and an organic part, typically peat, but much less of the last than in soil-less compost. No. 1 has less fertiliser than nos. 2 and 3. Alternatively, garden centres do sell bags of sieved top soil, expensive for the garden but I should imagine it would be ideal for an aquarium.
-
Great, I'll look out for some sieved topsoil.
Not using peat, or anything containing peat, have a moral objection to it.
-
You can also get bags of 'hoticultural grit' from the garden centre too. A couple of quid for about 20Kg, and that'll be a great gravel topping. Just make sure its the rounded sort rather than the sharp sort, and it'll need a good rinse before using it. I use an old plastic sieve - a couple of handfuls of grit in it and a quick rinse from the water butt does the trick.
As for syphoning the gravel... there's really no need. The idea is all the fish poo goes down between the gravel and replenishes the soil substrate as fertiliser would.
-
I have also used horticultural grit, but be careful as two things with the same name can be very different. I have Kelkay Coarse grit (lime free) which is the correct size. However, J. Arthur Bowers Coarse grit really is coarse, more like the stuff they surface roads with, definitely not suitable. Most of my tanks are topped off with sand, probably best for corydoras and some other fish, J Arthur Bowers lime free horticultural grade silver sand has worked very well and is widely available.
I hardly ever need to vacuum my substrate. I only do a small water change every 5 weeks and what I remove during this process is sufficient. I do have lots of small snails which help with the "clean up". Let nature work for you, don't struggle to work against it.
-
If you're not comfortable with the soil route, an alternative option would be to utilise a relatively fine rounded gravel (2-3mm) and enhance/support plant growth through the use of root tabs - if you haven't come across these before they're basically small tablets of fertiliser which you embed into the gravel around the roots of your plants.
This would work out more costly than soil over time as they generally need to be replaced every 6 months or so, but a single tab can usually do up to 1 sq ft and I think you can pick up packs for as little as a fiver so they won't break the bank. If you're brave, you could even make your own but this is a little more risky. ;)
-
As you can see from the replies gathered here, there is no true way. If you wish to purchase something in a ready made plastic bag, I would try your local aquarium shop rather than the garden centre. There is too much danger of the addition of pesticides or fungicides or herbicides in addition to fertilisers. Although Chris's idea of nicking it from your organic neighbour has a certain ring to it. ;)
-
i try to think of it as borrowing it from the next door neighbour :rotfl:
-
mmmm - I see a business opportunity here, Chris. :))
-
i wonder how much i could borrow before he starts to notice ;D
-
I've decided to give the back garden soil a go. If it's good enough for ground bees...
So to recap, you can top with either sand or gravel, and sand is better with corys.
When you have the soil layer underneath you don't have to vacuum the sand or gravel layer (at all / as much?)
Plants should be 'easy' with low light and nutrient requirements. Are these the slower growing plants?
Can I assume that the high ammonia and nitrite levels achieved during a fishless cycle will kill off any nasties that might have been in the soil? But won't damage the plants? Or is a planted cycle different, with lower ammonia concentrations? Actually I'm thinking of doing the "new" method on here, are those levels high enough to disinfect the soil?
-
A few notes from Ms Walstad's previously plugged work. She has a whole chapter on substrates, or to put it more accurately "Soil". She doesn't seem to approve too much of anything else. Soil consists of a mixture of
1 Inorganic matter - This is stuff that comes from shells and skeletons of dead organisms, detritus from food, etc
2 Organic matter - The soft-tissue remains of dead-organisms, leaves fish, roots etc Byproducts like poo.
3 Minerals - Quartz, clay and sand that make up most soils
4 micro-organisms - Bacteria, fungus, yeasts etc. Living organisms.
Given this, item 4 especially, I would suggest that we don't wish it to be sterilised.
In a section tellingly entitled "Chaos in freshly submerged terrestrial soils" Ms W suggests that chemical changes within the first 6-8 weeks are capable of killing your fish and she goes on to suggest at least one large water change after adding soil; And the use of charcoal in the filter until 6-8 weeks.
Soils are apparently always acidic. So be extra vigilant if you live in a soft-water area.
Vacuuming is for cosmetic purposes only, ie if you use sand you may have to hoover up the mess on the top of the sand to prevent it looking dreadful, otherwise, leave well alone.
Set-up the tank dry. In other words put the soil in first, cover it with gravel and then carefully add the water. Once you've done all that, she says you can add fish. This contradicts what she said above, but, what do I know. I only flicked through it, so I probably misunderstood something. Maybe Richard can square the circle.
"EASY" plants aren't necessarily slow growing ones. Sometimes in fact, they are just the opposite. They are plants that require the simplest equipment, basic lighting, no CO2, basic feeding, simplest substrate, simplest keeper; and require the least 'interference' from the grower.
-
Thanks Steve, that's great. Must get that from the library.
I plan to do a fishless planted cycle, so it'll be several weeks before I add any fish.
Although I was going to try and get some of that filter media from maidenhead aquatics.
I do wonder how many of the required bacteria there are in our heavily chlorinated water!
-
Don't worry about "disinfecting" the soil or killing off "nasties". As I've said before, any living thing (bacteria etc.) that can harm fish will only be in another fish or in water that contains fish. There is no way that soil can contain anything living that will harm fish.
The recommendation that you use charcoal is only if you suspect the soil may contain pesticides or something.
The idea that fresh soil can kill fish only comes in one of Walstad's Q and A sections where someone writes "I put soil into my new pond and all the fish died. Is there any way to prevent this?". Yes, if you threw a load of soil into the bottom of a tank with fish in you too might have problems! But if you set up the tank properly, with a layer of soil topped off with a layer of gravel or sand, then go through the normal cycle process, everything will be well settled down by the time you add fish. One of the ways I differ from Walstad is that she adds fish immediately, I prefer the normal cycle approach, patience is a great virtue in fish keeping.
For easy plants, just look at the Tropica Aquarium Plants site. Select Plants from the menu, then the part marked "The plants demands" then the "Easy" category, it's a very sensible division, anything on that easy list should do well under normal lighting.
I recommend planting the tank before filling with water, it's much easier than sticking your arm through a full tank of water to try to get a plant to stay in the substrate while the plant is determined to float back up to the top. I put in my layer of soil, then top it off with the sand/gravel and add any rocks, wood etc. Then I put in a couple of inches of warm water which helps to warm up the substrate which might be quite cold. Don't use water from your hot tap though, as it might contain copper from your hot water tank. Then I put in the plants, very easy at this time, and top up with water after planting. Take the usual precautions when adding water, I pour mine onto a saucer on the substrate, and don't forget to thoroughly wash your gravel/sand first to get out all the dusty stuff. Then I just follow the normal ammonia cycle process. The plants will use some of the nitrates produced by the cycle, but you'll still need to do a big water change as usual before adding fish.
I've now set up 11 tanks like this, all with soil from my garden, and have had no problems at all.
-
Yes I suppose any bacteria, viruses or other microorganisms living in my garden waiting for their ideal fish hosts to come along are going to be waiting a very long time!
Thanks Richard. Very useful advice I will be coming back to this thread quite a lot I think.
So I have soil, old heather branches well dried and partially soaked and stones from various locations. I just need some sand, and a tank!
-
Bad news on the tank, just been to collect as was told would be there yesterday, only to find it's being delivered at 3pm, at which time I'll be collecting my son from school, taking him home and packing for a weekend camping. So Monday it is then, this time I'll phone to see if it's in the shop. Kind of wish I'd paid the thirty quid more to take it home off the shelf in pets at home two weeks ago!
-
Ah but just think of all the things you have been learning in that two weeks ;D
-
So Monday it is then, this time I'll phone to see if it's in the shop. Kind of wish I'd paid the thirty quid more to take it home off the shelf in pets at home two weeks ago!
Patience is definitely a virtue where fish keeping is concerned - consider it practice!! ;)
-
Thanks both, you are absolutely right of course!
-
Ok, so just been chatting on a different forum, and there's some concern about me adding soil from the garden. The specific thing said was "I assume the soil has never been treated with anything"
Well I don't really have an answer for that! Of course I can't be sure it's never been treated with anything, this house is 70 years old and I've been here nine months!
What sort of 'anything' would he mean? Pesticides? Heavy metals? Fertilizers? Slug pellets? If the advice is use garden soil surely there's a fairly high chance any of it might contain some of these? And how many weeks of rainfall would it take to effectively wash out?
Can anyone reassure me? I don't particularly feel the need to explain myself to the forum users, just feel more confident myself.
Unfortunately there's no copies of Diana walsted's book in Cardiff library catalog, but I think I'll try to order it.
-
This is another example of the ridiculous "fear factor" that seems to have pervaded fishkeeping, so many things people are afraid of, for no reason whatsoever. Unless your house was built recently on an old gas works or something, there is no need to worry about contamination. If pesticides or herbicides were persistent, no plants would grow in the garden and there would be no worms, insects or whatever either. So long as your garden grows things, there will be no problems with using the soil.
I wouldn't bother about Walstad's book. There is very little about the practicality of fish keeping. It is really a scientific treatise on the logic behind the low-tech planted aquaria which she advocates. There are large numbers of graphs, charts and equations, all backed up by proper scientific references. That is what impressed me about it, her ideas were supported by real research in contrast to much of the information on fish keeping elsewhere which often seems to be based on little real knowledge but which is passed on so many times that it becomes considered as established fact.
-
I am running soil from gardens in both my tanks all seems to be Fine for me and plants are growning lovely in 5 Ft. Tank with fish and plants settleing intoo my 60 liter tank and doing Well ( no fish yet ) i was nervous to start with to use soil but now i hace done it and seen the results i doubt i would ever go back now. .
-
Ah, but you have 'access' to a ready supply of suitable soil! :rotfl:
-
:raspberries. Not my fault i have neighbours
-
See Colin it's your use of the word 'suitable' that gives me doubts!
Thanks guys, I knew you'd reassure me. Got my top layer of sand today, and discussed getting some of the mature media from MA when I get water in. So just need to have a child free day when I can get all this sorted!
Unfortunately their plants were rather sad looking specimens so may buy online.
-
I bought all of my plants from EBay and the quality has been excellent. Many of the large suppliers have weekly deliveries of plants flown in from the south-east Asian countries where they are grown and so they are really fresh. I would never buy potted plants, highly overpriced. Don't be afraid of stem plants, they are just what a gardener would call unrooted cuttings, but once in the substrate they root within a few days and will grow rapidly. And only a fraction of the price of potted plants.
-
See Colin it's your use of the word 'suitable' that gives me doubts!
Ah! That's only as in 'not unsuitable', e.g. Stable manure etc etc.
-
Nothing from the compost heap then Colin? ;)
Got my carefully prepared soil into the tank and realized there's not nearly enough, so dug up and sorted some more (I don't have a spare sieve so picked it all over by hand) left it out in the garden, mostly to keep it put of reach of the kids, and it chucked it down with rain! So now I have mud!
-
Lovely...mud-pie making for the kids tomorrow then ;)
-
Bit disappointed, and slightly confused... Initial test shows high pH of 8.2. As we don't have any limescale here I thought it'd be low.
Other tests: using API master test kit
Ammonia 2ppm
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10 -20
Does water conditioner affect pH? I'm not able to add the exact amount for my tank as the tank is so small, so probably overdosed.
Dosed to 3ppm ammonia and left to mix for a few hours. Think I need to add a tiny bit more.
-
Apologies, this is on the wrong board!
-
Bit disappointed, and slightly confused... Initial test shows high pH of 8.2. As we don't have any limescale here I thought it'd be low.
Have you tested the water out of the tap to give you a benchmark?
-
What figures do your water company give for hardness? It may not show up as limescale, you may have water-softeners for example.
-
I haven't been able to find that out. Welsh water's website just takes me to a blank page.
Tap water pH is 7.8
-
Bit disappointed, and slightly confused... Initial test shows high pH of 8.2. As we don't have any limescale here I thought it'd be low.
I used to think my water was pH 8.2 so I bought a full range test kit which gave me 7.5 as it goes up in 0.5 of a pH unit. I think the colour that would be 7.5 to 7.6 on the high range if it was on the colour-card is very similar to the colour that is shown as 8.2
(http://c3.wag.com/images/products/p/hag/hag-1101_1z.jpg)
You could try and blag a test strip from your LFS.
-
Water conditioner doesn't usually affect pH, but things in the tank can. Wood usually lowers it and certain types of rock/sand/decor can increase it. And letting tapwater stand for 24 hours often changes the pH.
I think the first thing I'd do is set up some tubs of water. Into one put some garden soil. Into another put some of the sand. Leave one tub with only water. Maybe a fourth tub with a rock. Test the pH of all the tubs as soon as you've set it all up, then test each one again after 1 day, 2 days etc.
This will show if letting the water stand increases the pH, and if that's not to blame if something you have put in the tank is doing it.
The good news for now is that the bacteria grow better at high pH, so the cycle should proceed well.
-
Thanks both,
Some new stuff to report.
I bought some mature filter media from MA today and put it in the tank, then tested the parameters two hours later. (In between I was watching my son as a pig in class assembly and then collecting my daughter from nursery, life is never dull)
PH has now come out as 7.4. (Or lowest on the high range scale, should I retest with low range?)
Ammonia between 1 and 2 ppm
And I have nitrites! There is definitely a hint of purple, so 0.25 ppm
Didn't test nitrate today.
I take on board your advice Sue, but am thinking will leave it to see if pH settles, and if it's going to be all over the place, then do as you suggest with the soil and sand tubs.
Colin my Lfs use the same test strips that they sold me, when testing for anything other than ammonia. Those test strips gave a reading of 7.2 yesterday.
-
Looks like your pH is about 7.2 to 7.4 then. That's good 'cos you can keep most fish in that.
Was your son in an eating competition? ;D
-
PH has now come out as 7.4. (Or lowest on the high range scale, should I retest with low range?)
I would re-test with low range because hitting the lowest figure on the high range scale could indicate that pH is lower than the high range test is able to measure (does this make sense?). The shop reading of 7.2 would seem to support this.
-
Yes, it makes sense as that's what I was thinking. In fact I only used the high range in the first place as it was at the top of the scale on low range yesterday. Meanwhile my cheapo test strips have been saying 7.2 all along! Maybe I should just stick to them!
Haven't taken a sample to the shop, they just told me they use the same strips.
Btw I did the test twice yesterday as I was so surprised at the result. Both came out at 8.2.
Maybe I'll leave testing pH til the tank is cycled!
Thanks for your help.
-
Haven't taken a sample to the shop, they just told me they use the same strips.
Ah, I misunderstood - thought you meant your lfs had tested your tank water using the same type of strips.
Maybe I'll leave testing pH til the tank is cycled!
Yeah, I don't think it would hurt to leave the pH for now - ammonia & nitrites are obviously your primary enemies whilst cycling your tank. Although it would be good to verify that you have relatively stable pH before adding any fish :)
-
Be very Careful of a ph crash during the cycle i have very soft water and I suffered a very quick drop in ph about half way threw luckly i caught it in time and with some help from sue all was sortred .y
-
That doesn't sound good Chris, why would that happen? Something to do with concentrations of nitrite and ammonia?
What did your pH drop down to?
Does it go low enough to kill the bacteria?
Glad yours turned out ok. How often / at what point would you recommend pH testing?
Thanks
-
Well my normal ph is about 7,2 and I checked on it and was Fine then i checked about 4 days later and it was showing a ph of 6 but it could of been lower as i can only test to 6.0 .yes i think it has to do with the amonia levels etc and soft water .Well after my ph crash i played it safe and tested the ph every other day
-
How often / at what point would you recommend pH testing?
How often you test your pH depends, mostly, upon how hard your water is. You need to get some idea of this before we can answer this. When I asked this before, you responded with a pH value. pH is a measure of the acidity/alkalinity of your water, not its hardness. It is usually linked to the pH of your water; But not always. Your lfs should be able to get an initial reading for KH and GH. If you have soft water, you should be measuring the pH more regularly; If you have hard water, you don't really need to bother too much.
-
Hi Steve, the pH of the tap water was a response to someone else's question, not yours.
I can't get hold of water quality and hardness info from the water company as their website just takes me to a blank page. So I'm afraid I'm unable to answer your question, sorry I wasn't just ignoring it.
To explain... I was planning to leave the pH testing til later on in the cycle, but something Chris wrote made me ask him how often he thought I should test pH, and he has answered.
Sorry to confuse you, I really should get the hang of the quotes function!!!
-
I was able to purchase a gh and kh test kit from eBay for less that 10 pounds and because my water is very soft I still test it every 3 or 4 days just for my peace of mind
-
Sorry to confuse you, I really should get the hang of the quotes function!!!
Ah...yes, the quotes function, everyone else manages that, but I do seem to have a problem using the pesky varmint ??? :-[
-
Oo-oo...it worked ;D
-
Ah...yes, the quotes function, everyone else manages that, but I do seem to have a problem using the pesky varmint ??? :-[
[/quote]
Yay! Well done!
(Did it work??)
-
Nope!!
-
'fraid not :(
-
Just going to have to keep on confusing people an relying on their good will to bear with me, and keep the advice coming! :(
-
When I muck up the quoty thing, I think it's because I delete too much of it. Try leaving all of the code stuff in at the beginning after the word quote...does that make sense? ???
-
When I muck up the quoty thing, and if I totally misquote you does that work? it's because I delete too much of it. Try leaving all of the code stuff in at the beginning after the word quote...does that make sense? ??? Not too me I'm too silly.
Thank you!
So far I can... leave everything in and just quote your whole text, take out a word here and there, add nonsense to your text!
Next step removing most of what someone has said and just quoting the relevant bit!! Easier said than done??
-
There's probably an easier way of taking out the majority of what someone has said that is not relevant to your reply, but so far, I do it by just back-spacing through it. Steve will tell you if there is a better method, he probably won't tell me as he enjoys my angst too much...he's sooo funny ;)
-
Hardness (GH) and KH are not the same thing. Most water companies, if they give it at all (not many do), call KH alkalinity.
GH is a measure of the amount of calcium and magnesium in the water. This is what fish profiles mean when they say a fish needs hard or soft water. Fish have evolved to cope with a certain level and many will not thrive if kept in water of the 'wrong' hardness.
KH is a measure of carbonate and bicarbonate in the water. Fish keepers like to know it as it is a measure of the amount of buffer in the water; that means how stable the pH is likely to be. With a low KH it is very easy to alter the pH, but with a high KH is it very hard to alter it.
As Steve says, getting the shop to test the KH of your tap water is the best way to start. The critical value is 4 degrees or 70ppm, whichever unit they use. If it is lower than this, get a KH tester and check your pH every time you do the other tests. Up to 6 or 7, don't bother with a tester but check the pH frequently. If it's over 10, you won't have any problems.
But if it is less than 3, you need to take action, I'll tell you what if you find it is that low.
There are 2 concerns with low KH. This is a measure of the amount of carbonate and bicarbonate in the water. The filter bacteria need some in the water to grow, and they use it up as they do so. And both nitrite and nitrate, made by the cycle, are acidic and will react with carbonates, reducing the amount in the water. Once the amount of carbonate has dropped sufficiently low the acidic chemicals then have nothing to stop them dropping the pH - and the bacteria won't multiply below 6.5. And they won't grow anyway if there isn't enough carbonate.
Some areas of the country have a KH well over 10. Here, there is no danger of a pH crash during cycling. However, if you do have lowish KH, there are ways to boost the carbonate during cycling, either water changes to replenish the carbonate or by adding bicarbonate of soda (from the home baking section of the supermarket), I can tell you the dosage. Bicarb is fine to use during cycling but not when you have fish as all the sodium (the soda part) is as bad for fish as it is for us.
-
So low KH is a concern, and am I right in thinking low (ish) GH is beneficial? ie soft water, preferred by more species of fish.
I have GH and KH on the aforementioned test strips I got before the API set came through. I've noted down the results...
GH 7
KH 6
But as I say, these are from tests that I've no idea of the accuracy of.
Let me see if I can work out what this means from what you've said Sue, and other info floating round in my brain!
KH 6: low but not scary low, test pH frequently.
GH 7:medium / soft - should suit a wide variety of fish.
Am I getting there?
Many thanks for all your help.
Ps have topped up the ammonia to 2ppm today as it had dropped to 0.5ppm by this afternoon.
(Am trying to achieve 3ppm but the tests only measure 2 and 4)
-
The GH and KH summary is fine. Yes, a lot of fish will be quite happy in that GH and you have a bigger choice than if you had very hard water.
And yes, I would check the pH every few days just to be safe. I got almost to the end of my cycle before my KH of 3 caused a pH crash.
-
Ohh missed the ammonia addition. Are you following the method I wrote? Adding ammonia too often causes the nitrite level to get too high and that stalls the cycle. That happens at nitrite 15 to 16 but our test kits don't go that high. The chap who invented the new fishless cycling regime aimed to reduce the amount of ammonia added so the nitrite level could not go past that critical level.
-
Yes I am Sue, but moving it on a bit quicker due to (I'm hoping) the action of the mature filter media I added yesterday, starting work on the ammonia already!
Nitrites are nothing like that high yet, but it will bear in mind what you say. They have only just started showing up on the test, 0.25 ppm yesterday, maybe I should test again today.
-
I'd forgotten you were using mature media. That does affect the cycle. In that case, yes add ammonia more often but keep a check on the nitrite. Because of the difference in molecular weight, 1ppm ammonia makes ~2.5ppm nitrite so nitrite does go up quicker than ammonia goes down, unless there nitrite eaters (mature media) to pass nitrite on into nitrate as it is being made. The problem there is that nitrate testers aren't that accurate but if you do see the colour changing to a higher level, it is a good indicator that you have nitrate being made. That's the best way to use the nitrate test, to look for an increase rather than a specific reading.
-
Ok thanks, yes that does make sense, so the fact I have minimal nitrate doesn't necessarily mean it's not being made, just being moved straight on to nitrate.
Is one of the processes faster than the other?
-
In a cycled filter there are just enough ammonia eaters to eat the ammonia made by the fish, and just enough nitrite eaters to eat the nitrite made by the ammonia eaters. In a cycling filter, the nitrite eaters have to play catch up. They can't start to grow until the ammonia eaters have made some nitrite so they always lag behind until the point where there are finally enough of them. This is what happens when you don't have mature media. But when you do, everything depends on just how many of each species of bacteria were transferred and how many died during the move. You also need to grow more of them and the nitrite eaters are notoriously slower growing than the ammonia eaters. Both these factors (how many bacteria survived the move, and the different growth rates) affect the progress of a seeded cycle like yours. And it is unpredictable progress.
-
Thanks. I will wait and see!
-
In order to add a quote to your post, you add the required text between markers called "Quote Tags". So typing ...
[quote]Hello Resa[/quote] into your post, will produce the following quoted text in your reply.
Hello Resa
[quote author=Resa]Hello Resa[/quote] into your post, will produce the following quoted text in your reply.
Hello Resa
[quote author=Resa link=topic=921.msg9117#msg9117 date=1400934987]Hello Resa[/quote] into your post, will produce the following quoted text in your reply.Hello Resa
The latter one is best left to the software, especially the date.
What's crucial, is that you get the [quote][/quote] tags to match up properly.
There's probably an easier way of taking out the majority of what someone has said that is not relevant to your reply, but so far, I do it by just back-spacing through it. Steve will tell you if there is a better method, he probably won't tell me as he enjoys my angst too much...he's sooo funny ;)
As far as I know, there is no easy way to selectively quote a message. You press the "Insert Quote" link and manually edit the text within the quote markers.
-
Thanks Steve
Like this?
What's crucial, is that you get the tags to match up properly.
Quote from: Resa on Today at 01:36:27 PM
There's probably an easier way of taking out the majority of what someone has said that is not relevant to your reply, but so far, I do it by just back-spacing through it. Steve will tell you if there is a better method, he probably won't tell me as he enjoys my angst too much...he's sooo funny
As far as I know, there is no easy way to selectively quote a message. You press the "Insert Quote" link and manually edit the text within the quote markers. - See more at: http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,921.msg9141.html#msg9141
Hm sort of!
-
... What's crucial, is that you get the tags to match up properly...
Hm sort of!
The "Empty Quote" you get there is because of some trickery I did to display [quote][/quote] tags correctly.
-
Ok, I'm continuing this on newbies, as it's no longer got very much to do with substrate. Although I have re read all your advice, especially I've reminded myself of the advice to use charcoal for first six weeks, I have a filter cartridge that contains that, so I'll put it in after the cycle.
Thanks everyone.
-
My tank is now cycled, just waiting for an opportunity to get some fish! In the meantime I have some concerns regarding the substrate.
There seems to be quite a large build up of hydrogen sulphide in the substrate. Every time I poke in a skewer it seems to release a bubble. I have detected that eggy hydrogen sulphide smell. Maybe not every time.
Is this a concern, and if so is there anything I can do about it? I've read that Malaysian trumpet snails can help, and you know me with anything Malaysian!
Do other snails not do this too? I have quite a lot of bladder snails and the odd ramshorn.
The other concern is the amount of bottom substrate, ie soil, that has accumulated on the top, sand. In fact my soil is lighter than my sand so every time any soil is disturbed (planting / releasing H2S bubbles) I get soil settling on top of the sand a few minutes later.
I've read that vacuuming is the way to get rid of this... It's not working for me!
Will this be a problem, will it mean I can't have bottom dwelling fish?
Thanks in advance.
-
i get some soil from time to time work its way threw at first i had a fair bit come threw so i came to the conclusion that my sand layer was a little thin so i increased the thickness of my sand and this seems to have cleared 90 percent of my soil wash threw problems , most of my fish are bottom dwellers or really like to feed from the bottom and even when the soil has washed threw it dose not cause them problems.
-
Thanks Chris that's good news.
Do you get these gas bubbles too?
-
to be honest no i cant say i have noticed it or certainly not on a large scale , i do get like a algae on the sand in areas were there is not much current ( plan to solve this problem after my vacation ) .
i do tend to get my sand moved around a lot though with my fish constantly disturbing it and also with my cleaning of the tank.
when i have tended to notice areas that seemed to have had food settle in them or areas that have not been disturbed so much i use a plastic fork as a rake and run it threw the sand ( not deep enough to the soil layer) just to make sure that if there is any gasses building up it can release before it builds up.
-
I've been going right down to the bottom of the tank with the skewer. Of course I haven't any fish yet to do any disturbing the sand. But the bubbles are coming from the soil layer not the sand itself. And the sand is well over an inch thick in some places.
Not sure what I should be doing really, have read the gas is toxic to fish.
-
i have just tried this on my tank and it did release a few bubbles so i guess mine is the same as yours and it dose not seem to have affected my fish in the last two months they have been in the tank , i guess its been releasing over time in small stages
-
Great, thanks for doing that!
It's just pre getting fish nerves then!?!
-
well fish keeping is a nervous and rewarding experience my first two weeks i lost a few fish 5 to be exact i blamed myself conviced myself i was doing wrong but after a few weeks it settled down and althow i am not problem free things are getting better but i agree fish are a nervous thing to look after
-
You could always fit them out with the special gas-mask for fish.....
(http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/332257/332257,1251587817,18/stock-photo-art-illustration-the-yellow-fish-use-gas-mask-illustration-for-children-a-series-reef-animals-36329557.jpg)
-
Colin!....where do you find all this stuff??? ???
-
Colin!....where do you find all this stuff??? ???
I've got a good filing system....
(http://cdn.visualnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/amazon-warehouse-5.jpg) :))
-
Sad.....very, very sad ;)