Preparations For A Planted Tank

Hi Dave,
I must admit – I am a little bit puzzled with the things you do and the reasons behind it...  First of all – and sorry to be harsh (if I am) – you tank is not a planted tank. It is a tank with a few plants, that’s it... Personally, I think you have put yourself in the most difficult position with regards of running this tank –  generic rules of a non planted tank do not quite apply as well as generic rules of a planted tank...
I am sorry if I missed something – I only have limited time so I only briefly scanned through the thread (I think I even posted once a while ago...).  So, apologies if I misread/missed something. Why are you doing those large water changes and have a Phosphate removing pad? I understood that your tap water has plenty of Phosphate  so by doing these water changes, you actually adding more than usual – and then you have to change the Phosphate pad as it gets saturated! Is not this counterproductive? Another thing – what is the aim of large water changes ? I am not saying they are never good – on the contrary! (I do fairly large ones on all of my tanks on a regular basis – alternating them with smaller ones). But there must be a reason for everything... If you are trying to bring Phosphates and Nitrates to as close to zero whilst trying to grow plants – you are fundamentally wrong. Phosphates and Nitrates are the two of a number of major nutrients for plants – removing them to zero means that you are simply starving your plants.... I have to ADD both of those in my planted tanks (albeit, my tanks have much more “greenery” than yours) – but even small amount of plants will need some of these nutrients.
Hence I am puzzled – I do not understand your goals,  and I think you might be moving in the wrong direction....

Hi Dave,
Yes, I read the whole thread again... Unfortunately, I did not get any additional information (note: my “quick reading” is a technique which helps to absorb as much information in a shorter length of time – so, really, I was doubting myself after your suggestion but realized that I should have not...)
Anyway – after re-reading the thread slowly I still am confused about what you are doing. You have created such a “mish-mash” of the different technics – it is simply amazing. It could have been a break through in the aquarium hobby if it worked but is not so far...
First of all – you “silent cycle” was not really one (you needed 200% more plants to make it reasonable). Secondarily – you used dirt as a medium but you need at least 100% more rooted plants to neutralize the negative effects of putting highly “active” substrate medium – the more, the better.
You have experienced Ammonia spikes – these would have not happen if you had more plants. You dirt substrate is leaching ammonia into the water BECAUSE there is no enough plant cover! This is what caused you green water algae and the death of your tetra. The moss and Anubias will NOT solve this problem as their uptake of nutrients is very slow. I can predict that the Ammonia spikes will be less and less frequent and less intense as your dirt matures in the tank but you will still have a few more. The rise of Phosphate in the water column is again triggered by so much of fresh dirt without enough of rooted plants. Your extensive water changes may help against green water (not 100% guarantee and a lot of water changes before you see the permanent result). The water changes are necessary for the foreseeable future to help to keep you fish alive, though.
The course of action (you may take it or leave it as you wish): immediately buy hornwort (ceratophyllum demersum), wash it and add to the tank (floating plant); continue with water changes; buy vallis and more of starogine, plant them; continue with water changes; as vallis and starogine grow, you may gradually remove hornwort. This will ensure that you tank will not go into a complete disaster but will recover and “perk up”. Hopefully, these measures will eliminate the green water algae (no guarantee for that and you might have to buy a UV filter – but I am trying to save money for you – it is better to spend it on more plants that the UV filter). And remember – dirt substrate tanks should be a JUNGLE not a few plants here and there.
That’s it. Take it or leave it – you decide.

End Of Week #8

I deliberately left the tank alone this week to see how much the Green Water Algae would grow, and with a single 50% water change on Saturday, the clarity is quite acceptable.  This next week I'll be splitting the water change into two parts to make it a bit easier, and I have increased the lights on by an hour to cover 5pm to midnight.

So, I believe my test has allowed me to find a good balance of amount of water change to preserve water clarity over a full week. I'm quite happy with that amount for now, so I'll not be getting a UV unit.

All other water parameters are as expected, with no surprises.

Date

|

GH

|

KH

|

pH

|

Phosphate

|

Ammonia

|

NitrIte

|

NitrAte

|

Water Change

|

Mon 8th Apr

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

Tue 9th Apr

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

Wed 10th Apr

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

Thu 11th Apr

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

Fri 12th Apr

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

Sat 13th Apr

|

7

|

6

|

7.5

|

1

|

0

|

0

|

10

|

50%

|

Sun 7th Apr

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|

This weeks pics attached.

Good to see your Crypts growing.... and I think the Anubias is great. It's a lovely species of the genus and I've 'filed' it for future reference to use myself.

The Taiwan's looking....errrrr..... interesting after the 'Attack Of The Giant Shrimps' episode.

Hi Dave,
As I am “celebrating” my last day visiting this forum (for at least the nearest future), I feel that I don’t really “fit” into this forum and, frankly, I started to feel that there is no need for me being on this forum advising (in vain) what is actually can be picked up by a proper research... I am going to do a couple of posts anyway, and feel the reply to you should be among them.
Firstly, explaining the “mish-mash”. Fundamentally, there are two types of tropical tanks: planted and non-planted. Planted tanks have a few recognized methods/techniques: high-tech, low-tech and El Naturel (see Diana Walstad’s book). These methods are reasonably flexible to an extent but still any tank maintained falls into one or another category. The “mish-mash” you have created is the fact that you have fundamentally what is called a non planted tank (e.g. a tank with a few plants) and you use the substrate for El Naturel type with the routine of a high-tech tank!
I could not really believe that you dismissed my suggestion of buying more plants due to financial reasons but then bought a UV filter, honestly! This soo much undermines your whole way of reasoning. You said you could not afford plants... A bunch of Vallis costs about £2 (£5 for 3) in the LFS’s across the country and Tropica pots (Starogine as any other plant) is widely sold for £10 per three pots (unless you live somewhere obscure that this general tendency dos not apply). £30 or even £15 would have been the start of solving your problem – you have opted to mask the problem (not cure it) with an UV filter which, I bet, cost you  much-much more.
Ammonia spikes. They are called “spikes” for a reason. They do not time their appearance to the time you do your water testing. They come and go – sometimes a few times in a short period of time. You really have to be there testing every hour to detect them – you should know that by now. Undetected by once in a while testing these spikes damage your fish and influence the overall state of your tank – hence your green water algae and your poor tetra...
In fairness, not only dirt but very expensive and iconic substrates like ADA ones do leach ammonia in the first few weeks (or months) – hence they are ideal of doing a fishless cycle without adding Ammonia from a bottle (again, you should know this before you put dirt into your tank!) Apart from Ammonia, substrates not covered with plants leach (and will continue to do so) all sorts of “stuff” (you should have investigated this before putting dirt into what is fundamentally a tank with VERY few plants – which really should have started with a principle of a non-planted tank, e.g. dirt was a mistake altogether with the level of planting you have).
Your newly bought UV filter will “mask” the problem e.g. by killing the free suspended green water algae but it will not eliminate the main problem – NOT ENOUGH PLANTS. Other problems will be lingering in the vicinity manifesting themselves as soon as they can. Again, I am still in disbelief that you rejected buying new plants for your, frankly, bare, tank but spent money on UV filter instead.
For your (and others) information: Amano shrimps do NOT eat HEALTHY plants. They only attack what is disintegrating in plant tissue. So your Taiwan being eaten overnight is not a surprise. What still looked O.K. to your human eye was, in fact, dying – and this is why the Amanos “all of a sudden” started eating it (they did not do that from the very start, did they???)
As a finishing touch – please, see photos of three of my 6 planted tanks(made with a very old 12 years camera, so not that good as photographs) They are all planted but I would not call them HEAVILY planted – you will see what I mean calling your tank a bare one.
Do read Diana Walstad’s book, do a search for Tom Barr (search for Barr Report) on the net – and do think and apply the knowledge to your particular tank. I have been corresponding with Diana and Tom replied to a couple of my messages on another forum – I think I do know something about keeping plants but the main mistake is (as you did) to assume you already have got enough of knowledge... By the number of times you log in I can guess that you are much luckier than me working from 8:30 till whenever I can escape from work – not having time to look elsewhere but work matters. As you have much more time on your hands you should have gained much more knowledge than me – if you only looked and did not assume you already know everything...

What a shame some people have to be so unpleasant   I really don't feel that it's anyones business but your own, how many times you do or do not visit the forum.  Personally, I am always popping in and out...my son often comments, "oh, she's thinking fish again"    Yet, I have a business to run, a home and massive garden to keep and 2 men to pick up after, not to mention an abundance of friends both here and in the UK to keep up with, plus of course my lovely fish to sit and gaze at. Perhaps, others would have more time for the friendly chat and banter that we normally experience on this forum, if they took more care with what they were reading in the first place? 
I have to admit that I needed to read Natalia's posts several times to fully understand them as her writing is not that clear. I wondered if this and her abrasive manner were because maybe english is not her first language?  I didn't particularly feel that she was very helpful in her comments, either in giving much information or in the manner in which she did give her opinions, which is a shame because many people, including myself, would have welcomed solid knowledge on aquarium planting.

I have only ever experienced on this forum friendliness, patience, helpful advice and if the answers were not known to my problem, support.  I look forward to logging in and seeing how everyone is doing...and what new fishy stuff they have got

Personally, I am extremely pleased to have discovered this site first, as I did find some of the other ones after and would have been entirely put off any forums if they were my only choice.
So, perhaps it is for the best that Natalia returns to one of these where she will be happier and be with like-minded people.

I apologise for my rambling but this did rather rattle my cage
Have a nice weekend Dave

Resa
 

  Thanks peeps, I appreciate that a lot.  Normal service has been resumed.

Ok.

End of Week 10.

I've done two 50% water changes this week (Thu+Sat) to get the water clarity to an acceptable level for picture taking.  UV kit is now installed, so at least I can start to let my aching right arm recover from all that heavy lifting. I have definitely managed to get myself a strain injury. 

The Taiwan continues to gather strength, with 4 stalks showing leaf growth.  The Echinodorus quadricostatus seems to be determined to make a break for freedom and has now grown up the right side to almost the surface of the water column.  The other one has grown its runner around the back right corner and is breaking out along the back of the tank.

This weeks pics attached.

Thank Colin,

Yes on the Quad, each of the rosettes appear on the runner every 3 inches and immediately drop a root then grow leaves (clever plant). I took a cutting last week and dropped them into my isolation tank, but they are not getting anywhere near enough nutrients to grow much in there.  It kind of shows how well the 180ltr is going considering I don't add any additional ferts.  I'm going to attack them this coming weekend and get the rosettes planted along the borders of the gravel and sand.   If they keep on going, as I'm sure they will, I'll be able to start creating an interesting looking carpet going over the sand.

Thanks Jimbo, that's very encouraging.   

I'm pretty sure that in a few months the whole tank will have improved no end, but yes you are quite right, it's still only a young build yet, and plenty of growing to be done.