Phosphates

So do you actually have an algae problem because of the phosphate? Your tank looks lovely and lush. The photos don't show any algae (but I appreciate that our tanks can look different in photos)

If you've got good growth and no algae problems, I wouldn't worry about the phosphate level. It could be a sign that you are feeding a bit too much, so reducing how much you feed might eventually have an effect on the phosphate level (along with your routine maintenance)

You could keep going and work out the rate limiting factor, but it is very easy to get in all sorts of knots trying to figure out these things.

You guys always have kind words to say about my tank - thank you very much indeed, that really is hugely appreciated...   

Helen...  no algae problems to speak of, my interest in this chemistry/biology side of things is aimed squarely at the plants with the Hygrophila Costata in particular... 

I did have algae in the first couple of weeks with the tank, but I was at the time leaving lights on for about 12 hours a day and over feeding the fish etc...  Two big changes quickly sorted the algae out, the first being to get familiar with and properly set up the lighting timer and of course reduce the photoperiod drastically (7.5 hours now) and the second thing was getting a clean up crew sorted...

The CUC began with 6 Amano shrimp, which I very swiftly fell in love with, lol, consequently adding a further six a week or so later...  Then came a juvenile Lemon Bristlenose Pleco, and finally came the first Rabbit snail, which was also followed by more Rabbit snails and a couple of Cappuccino Faunus snails...  This little crew could clean up The Lake District, I swear, lolol...   

Here are a couple of rare pics of my baby Lemon BN Plec... 

Calcium is GH 



GH = divalent metal ions; in natural water sources this is mainly calcium with some magnesium and trace amounts of other divalent metals.
KH = chemicals that buffer water against pH changes; it is virtually all carbonate and bicarbonate in natural water sources.

(Note - metals like sodium and potassium are monovalent and are not measured in GH; and metals like aluminium are trivalent and are not included either)

Tricky judging the colour shift with GH, but my results appear to be: 

GH:  Tap - 8.8    Tank - 7.0 
KH:  Tap - 6.0    Tank - 5.0

Dunno why the drop in the tank - possibly because of the two large chunks of bogwood...?

PH:  Slap bang in between the two ranges of the API test kit, so around 7.5


The Lemon BN Plec I've had for two months and was small/young when I got her...  I tend to assume she's a lass because of the lack of bristles - which would please me actually, if she is a girl...  My best guess is that she's still a bit young to be sure and bristles could start appearing any time over the next couple of months, or not...?

Lighting in the tank was initially reduced to six hours, a figure far more appropriate for a new tank, I believe...  Has since been built back up to 7.5 hours in steps...  Tank location is deep in a corner of the living room, which is more or less west facing and does get some daylight but it's not generally strong - however, there is a shortish period when sunlight can just reach the tank and so I have improvised a posh cardboard, lol, piece that gets popped on the tank end when the currant bun starts reaching the tank (only on days when there is no cloud cover - which is quite rare at the mo...!!!)...

I have heard about the siesta thing with lighting but haven't tried it so far...  The built in timer on the tank lights only gives you the one opportunity for on/off per day and I'm not sure I trust myself enough to be consistent with manually adding a second...  At this point, I favour the consistency of photoperiod more - but that could change...

I haven't tried root tabs and suspect they're not that necessary given the John Innes #3 layer beneath the gravel and addition of liquid ferts...  I'm still in the process of finding the right balance with the ferts, having tried TNC Lite and TNC Complete...  Started out with the Complete but switched to Lite on the grounds of growing fish numbers...  Then once I started to notice the H.Costata was looking undernourished, I switched back to the Complete...  With the advent of this whole phosphate malarkey, my plan is to now switch back to the TNC Lite as it does not contain additional nitrates and phosphates...  The next stage will be to try and learn how much to dose - so far, I have been significantly under dosing and this has worked well for all the plants except the H.Costata...  Logic behind under dosing being that the tank is well stocked plus there is the super rich substrate beneath the gravel - most of my plants are root feeders btw, which has been a concious decision based on the substrate set up, itself based on Diana Walstad's writings...  Bottom line here Helen is that I'm very much at the beginning of the learning curve, generally speaking of course but especially with regards to the use of fertilisers...  I have always assumed there would be no need for root tabs and that the high CEC factor of the substrate would mean that liquid ferts should be sufficient, along with the general organic detritus in the tank etc... 

A lot of assumptions there, when it comes to fertilising, but also a fair bit of my own studying of available material etc...  Could it be that it is worth adding root tabs just around the H.Costata...?  When they were new and healthy (if you look in the Lemon BN pics - you can see how healthy the Costata was at first), the H.Costata grew like mad, got tall fast...!!!  I kinda don't want them growing any faster, would just prefer them to be healthier again...  Damned tricky this aquatic gardening lark, eh...   

In terms of chosen plants and their origins, I have to confess that I have paid no attention to those details and thus cannot answer for that aspect as yet...  I probably will look into that, particularly the continental thing...  I can easily accept that there may well be such a thing as a lack of harmony between certain plants in certain situations, that could be a question of entirely natural balance, or lack of, etc... 

I would be inclined to agree with you re root tabs. There was something at the back of my mind telling me you probably didn't need them. And as you have a Diane Walstead type planted base, I would suggest that you don't need to consider root tabs for a few years (depending on how much you follow her method and leave plant detritus in the tank)

What units are you measuring hardness in? I would suggest that the drop in hardness is because something in your tank (plants?!) is using up the nutrients that hardness measures. This could be calcium or it could be carbon. The soil substrate would have had plenty of these initially, but the fast growing stem plants (hygrophilia Costata) could have used the excess up, so that there now isn't enough to support its growth.

Of the two, the easiest one to try is carbon, with one of the liquid carbon supplements. As you're already using TNC, I think the next thing that I would try would be the TNC lite with the TNC carbon and see if that improves the hygrophilia.

It can be a lengthy process working out the right balance for a planted tank and it continues to evolve and change with plant growth, fish stock changes and substrate development. But you sound a bit like me, in that you're clearly doing lots of research and seem to enjoy the chemistry / science side of fishkeeping. So taking time to work out the details of the right balance for your tank will keep you occupied and might delay the onset of MTS. I can't stop myself thinking about tinkering with my tank, I just don't have the time to actually do much of it these days, so I've averted MTS for the mean time. (Though in another 8 years, I might be teaching my mini mes and succumb to MTS that way!)

It's not carbon you need to add to raise KH - either as CO2 gas or liquid carbon - it's carbonate or bicarbonate. Some people add bicarbonate of soda (as used in cooking) but I don't like to use that as it adds sodium to the tank and there are few sources of fresh water that have much sodium (Rift Lakes excepted) so fish have not evolved to cope with it. It also increases TDS.

As fcmf says, calcium carbonate is the usual way to add buffering, and that includes limestone rocks, shells, coral etc. The mineral aragonite (rocks or sand) is also calcium carbonate. These will obviously also add calcium, therefore increase GH as well, and it will also increase pH slightly. Calcium carbonate is officially insoluble in water but it will dissolve very slowly - more so at pH under 7.
Dolomite, or dolomite sand, is better than limestone/coral/shells/aragonite, if you can find any. Dolomite is calcium magnesium carbonate not just calcium carbonate.

Blimey...!!! 

That explains a lot, thanks for that information Sue...  Just checked and yes, TNC Carbon is 2% Gluteraldahyde...

I nearly had pasteurised prawns...!!!   

Having said that algae isn't often due to a lack of phosphate, I've just looked up the reason for green spot algae (which I've had a recent burst of) only to find the following:

"Cause   With Estimative Index low phosphate levels often bring on a GSA outbreak"

I guess I'm not over feeding the fish then.

Will do a phosphate levels test soon, now that the initial few days with PhosGuard are well on...  Only used a small'ish amount in the skimmer there, but fingers crossed it may have had a little impact... 

So, phosphate levels tested this morning...  Down to 1ppm, possibly a little higher - but much nearer the 1ppm colour chart bar than the 2ppm bar...  Also re-tested tap water for confirmation and hitting the 2ppm bar distinctly...  From this, I can deduce that the Seachem Phosguard is definitely working, albeit at a gentle or slow pace... 

At this rate, I may decided to get a media bag and put some Phosguard in the main filter...  Dunno for sure yet, but that's certainly a distinct possibility...