Confusion About Lighting.

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Offline Mervyn

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2013, 05:39:30 AM »
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Well...when I got up at 3.30am this morning the snail had not moved!! I took it out and there was no smell....I have placed it in a tub of tank water outside of the tank for now.

I will give it a few more hours but I am 99.9% certain that it is dead. It was alive when we bought it as the girl in the lfs pulled it from the tank glass.

Oh well I will see how the other one does before I purchase any more.

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Bristlenose Plec (2) - Golden Barb (8) - Angelfish (8) - Platy (8) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Panda Cory (8) - Rosy Barb (7) - Boeseman's Rainbowfish (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2013, 11:33:19 AM »
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Ah-ha, the girl pulled it from the glass! That can injure them slightly so it could just be sitting tight healing itself. Don't give up on it just yet.

For future reference, if you want to remove one from something, don't pull it off. Wiggle it gently till it decides it doesn't like it and lets go. Or if it's on something you want to take out of the tank (like on my piece of wood during a water change, the wood falls over very easily and gets in the way) just put the object in a bucket. The snail will quickly realise its not in water any more and close its operculum - and fall into the bottom of the bucket where it can easily be picked up and put back in the tank.

Offline Mervyn

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2013, 11:37:54 AM »
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Hi Sue,
Thanks...I have put some algae wafer in the water to try and tempt it but no luck so far. I was reading up a bit on them this morning and apparently they can take 24hrs to start moving??

I will change the water in the tub soon and unless it starts smelling I will give it a good few hours yet.

The one that is ok did quite a bit of munching on the algae on the bogwood during the night!! It has now gone into hiding since the lights came on. Are they basically nocturnal then?

The wife let me order 3 more from kesgrave tropicals....it is an extra £7.50 for express delivery but do not trust that lfs now for their snails. So that will be four or five if the other one "wakes up"

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Bristlenose Plec (2) - Golden Barb (8) - Angelfish (8) - Platy (8) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Panda Cory (8) - Rosy Barb (7) - Boeseman's Rainbowfish (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #43 on: February 03, 2013, 12:11:21 PM »
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I've had nerite snails for years and I've never seen one touch an algae wafer or pellet. I've had apple snails that loved courgette and lettuce but I never saw the nerites eat any. Of course, they could be eating them when it's dark  :)
I've heard good things about Kesgrave trops, it's the postage that puts me off. It's double that for fish! I've just looked on ebay at their listings and I notice they also sell horned nerites. Those are the small ones and if the zebras have trouble climbing over your plants because they are too heavy, the smaller and lighter horned nerites will manage it. Unless you have snail eating fish of course. My zebras are OK with dwarf chain loaches but I wouldn't risk the smaller snails with them.

Snails are usually posted with just a bit of damp tissue or filter floss rather than in water. Kesgrave might be different - if they do post them in water, acclimate the snails the same as you would for fish.

Offline Mervyn

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #44 on: February 03, 2013, 12:14:42 PM »
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Thanks for that Sue I had heard good things about Kesgrave as well....I also heard that they use defra licensed delivery firm so that would explain the price.

One other thing, are they strictly nocturnal? or would they eventually show when the lights are on?

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Bristlenose Plec (2) - Golden Barb (8) - Angelfish (8) - Platy (8) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Panda Cory (8) - Rosy Barb (7) - Boeseman's Rainbowfish (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #45 on: February 03, 2013, 12:35:19 PM »
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No, they are not nocturnal. They seem to be 24 hour ceatures. You can see them all day wandering over things looking for algae, and you also get up in the morning to find they've cleared a whole patch of algae that was there the evening before.
Several years ago, in the 60 litre tank that sprung a leak last year I used to have a filter called a Hagen Trio 2000. This was a flat rectagular box and the front cover got covered in algae. At this time I only had nerites in my 125 litre so I borrowed one. It found the filter within a few hours and created some wonderful patterns as it ate its wandering way over the plastic. The pattern changed hour by hour, and was totally different each morning. Once the filter had been scoured clean it turned its attention to other, slightly less lush regions. Then it just sat there for a few days as it had obviously stuffed itself. I was worried it was dead but it was just suffering from overeating  ;D

Offline Mervyn

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #46 on: February 03, 2013, 12:40:22 PM »
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Thanks Sue...yes there was a large patch on one of my pieces of bogwood this morning where it had been munching.... at the moment though, it goes and hides whilst the lights are on. Hopefully it will become less shy with time. ;D

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Bristlenose Plec (2) - Golden Barb (8) - Angelfish (8) - Platy (8) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Panda Cory (8) - Rosy Barb (7) - Boeseman's Rainbowfish (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Natalia

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #47 on: February 03, 2013, 08:09:26 PM »
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Hi Mervyn,
Congratulations on your new Nerites! It’s really good that you were allowed to have them – they are real little helpers. As for them being escapists, I read a few times that they do this when they are not happy with the water conditions they are in. I cannot quite comment on that but can say that they never tried to escape from my tanks – my tanks all have glass covers with quite large cuts out for equipment and I never had them crawling out – they go close to the edge of water and then go back. I never had them trying to escape. If buying them from shops, it is good to ask the staff to pick one for you which you can see moving along the glass or the substrate. Of course, you cannot do this if buying online... But do report back to Kesgrave tropicals if you have a non-active specimen – I would think they should give you a refund.
Hopefully, your tank will be moving in the right direction now. It is just a little patience needed as good changes tend to happen much slower that bad ones in aquariums! Also, this new routine will have to be “fine tuned” as you go to find the optimum for your specific tank – but this is all the fun: to be moving towards optimum. When an optimum is achieved , the routine will become probably less time consuming but in a way a little bit boring because everything will be running fine and there will be no case to employ “little grey cells” (Poirot). This is why many people who had themselves “hooked” onto planted tanks start changing layouts and trying new plants!
With your tap water, I think you need to decrease the amount of fertilizer (lower it to 4 ml). This is a correct thought from you – ideally you should have gone for a “complete” version as plants’ main “food” is carbon, Nitrates, Phosphates and Potassium. Micronutrients which I understand your current fertilizer has are already present in your tap water as it is hard (maybe not all of them in sufficient quantities and not in the easy for plants form but still...). Again – nothing to worry about. You can (and should) still use this fertiliser and  it will last you for longer. I understand you are on a budget so we will try to sort you tank out spending only a little bit of money (if any). I would not go down on liquid carbon, though – overdosing it is right as far as I can see (even maybe trying slightly more 4.5 -5 ml perhaps?). I think that the main issue to sort now is the flow distribution in your tank – to make so efficient that all corners and nooks have some water moving. This is the only thing I think you may need to spend some money on at the moment. You have a spray bar which is best for your tank. I am presuming that it is positioned along the side of the tank – am I right? You have a good filter – Eheims are rated very highly, and it is a much better litres per hour is way better than the filter you had. The effect you need to achieve is that the water from the spraybar goes along the length of the tank, hits the opposite side wall, goes down and then flows along the bottom in the opposite direction towards the filter inlet. Of course, pieces of decor and plants will alter/slow down the flow. So, what I am thinking: could you have a look at the side of the tank opposite to where you spraybar is positioned – do you see any movement of plants? If you don’t, that means the power of the flow does to bring it quite to the opposite side wall of your tank. If this is the case, perhaps, it would be better to buy another additional matching spraybar on Ebay, connect it to the one you have and position the new long one along the back wall (the longest one). The filter intake can be positioned on the same wall either corner. This is “fine tuning” and positioning of the spraybar and the intake can be althered until you see and feel that most of the tank has some water movement. This will only require some additional tubing and a spraybar (even second hand). These are the only expenses which I think you could have now. As your tank develops, more “fine tuning” will probably be needed – not necessarily involving any more spending....
P.S. I love your boesemani rainbows - very beautiful fish and suited to your water parameters well! :)

Offline Mervyn

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #48 on: February 04, 2013, 05:20:23 AM »
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Hi Natalia,

Thanks....the nerite have been busy overnight and one piece of largish bogwood has been nearly all "cleaned"

What I am thinking of doing is dosing one day with the NeutroT and one day with a "complete" fert? although all my plants are now starting to show good new growth.

I have, what I thought always a good flow from the Eheim ,with movement of plants and the tall plants at the opposite side "bending" in the flow and around the tank and yes you are right it is on the side of the tank, BUT...........I have now removed all the old seeded sponge and topped up with substrate pro. I cleaned the impellor,which was a bit mucky. I also changed the white floss (do that monthly) and I think that I may have had some baskets the "wrong way around". :-[

The result of this is that I have a much,much better flow and the only plants that do not seem to sway in the flow are 3 small plants directly under the spray bar.

I will get some tubing and try and get the spray bar in a lower position.

Yes the boesemani are smashing fish and boy can they swim fast  ;D

Thanks again Natalia

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Bristlenose Plec (2) - Golden Barb (8) - Angelfish (8) - Platy (8) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Panda Cory (8) - Rosy Barb (7) - Boeseman's Rainbowfish (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Mervyn

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #49 on: February 05, 2013, 10:39:45 AM »
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Well the 3 new nerite snails arrived......I must say that they were extremely well packed....they have been floating in the bag in the tank  for 15 mins and all showing signs of movement. I will place them in the tank in about another half hour. ;D

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Bristlenose Plec (2) - Golden Barb (8) - Angelfish (8) - Platy (8) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Panda Cory (8) - Rosy Barb (7) - Boeseman's Rainbowfish (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Natalia

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #50 on: February 05, 2013, 09:48:17 PM »
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Hi Mervyn,
First of all – apologies that I cannot write straight back. I work full time (and PLUS some hours!), Have 6 tanks of my own, a garden with a pond, a cat, a house and a husband to look after... I am not complaining but just I have limited time I can spare on forums – that’s all.
Again congratulations on your Nerites. I think what you have now is more than sufficient. Even more so – you may need to add some food for them later when they finished the algae that they can eat in your tank. I understand that the water flow is nice and even in your tank – so no need to reposition the spraybar or  buy an additional length of it. Just be aware that the flow is changed and the direction is altered when meeting an “obstacle” (such is a piece of decor). I cannot do this for you – I cannot see your tank but you will be able to observe and make changes when and if necessary. As for dosing Neutro T – as far as I understood from “scanning” briefly through your previous posts, your tap water contains enough of Nitrates. Phosphates and Potassium are an unknown element (you can buy an API Phosphate test by the way – about £8-10). Unless your Phosphates are from the tap water are very low or non existent, I would not bother with Neutro T just as yet... Just use observation and common sense based on the fact that plants need Macro (Nitrate, Phosphate and Potassium) and Micro nutrients – and you will be fine.

Offline Mervyn

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #51 on: February 06, 2013, 10:16:57 AM »
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Onve again thankyou very much indeed Natalia for your help.

Now, these four Nerites I have seem to be doing an excellent job. If and when they run out of algae what to feed them on?

I have been reading up and many people seem to think that they are very,very fussy and will only eat algae?

I do have plenty of algae wafers but I suspect my other fish including platies and mollies will devour them before the snails get a chance? Has anyone ideas of what they will eat?

Thanks

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Bristlenose Plec (2) - Golden Barb (8) - Angelfish (8) - Platy (8) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Panda Cory (8) - Rosy Barb (7) - Boeseman's Rainbowfish (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #52 on: February 06, 2013, 12:32:04 PM »
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One trick to try with algae wafers is to drop them into the tank just as you turn the room light off to go to bed. The fish won't be able to eat all of it before they go to 'sleep' and the snails will stand a chance.
Otocinclus are another picky creature and some people have success feeding them sushi nori. I've not tried it with my snails but you never know.

Offline Mervyn

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #53 on: February 06, 2013, 12:44:31 PM »
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Thanks Sue...I have also read somewhere that some of them can be tempted with a piece of carrott! ?  :P

Mind you might be worth trying the old dried seaweed. ;)

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Bristlenose Plec (2) - Golden Barb (8) - Angelfish (8) - Platy (8) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Panda Cory (8) - Rosy Barb (7) - Boeseman's Rainbowfish (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Natalia

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #54 on: February 08, 2013, 08:23:41 PM »
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Hi Mervyn,
The good news about Nerite – it is not quite correct that they eat INLY algae. They also graze on decaying plant matter, auswuchs and SOME fish food (if the type is with more veg than proteins and it has softened enough). Sue is right suggesting feeding them at the “dark hours” as well. They should be O.K. but you should not add more, I think...
P.S. Please, keep us posted on the progress/development and I (hopefully) will be able to help with “fine tuning” of your tank. The truth is – EVERY single planted tank is unique and all the “rules” and “recommendations” should be adapted to your specific tank...

Offline Mervyn

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #55 on: February 09, 2013, 06:17:14 AM »
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Thankyou Natalia,
I will certainly keep you informed of how it is going.  As you have already mentioned, I think it will be a slow process. The snails continue to do a great job and they have all decided to work on one half of the tank first. :D

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Bristlenose Plec (2) - Golden Barb (8) - Angelfish (8) - Platy (8) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Panda Cory (8) - Rosy Barb (7) - Boeseman's Rainbowfish (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Mervyn

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2013, 06:15:47 PM »
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The snails are doing very well indeed. So good that I think I will pass two on to my son at the weekend for his tank. That will leave me two as well and I think that they will be able to cope with any more algae.

Mind you, not one of them has tried to go on the plants to feed on the algae on them!

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Bristlenose Plec (2) - Golden Barb (8) - Angelfish (8) - Platy (8) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Panda Cory (8) - Rosy Barb (7) - Boeseman's Rainbowfish (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2013, 06:56:13 PM »
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There is something I forgot to mention about the snails. If you have at least one male and at least one female, they'll lay eggs like sesame seeds all over your decor, especially wood. They stick quite tight, I've given up trying to get them off the wood as I was gouging chunks off. The plus side is they won't hatch, and even if they do, the baby snails need salt water to grow so you won't be overrun with them. Of course you might be happy with that, now that apple snails are being banned, as nerites would sell for more money......... ;D

Offline Mervyn

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #58 on: February 17, 2013, 11:31:39 AM »
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Hi,
The algae problem is not as bad on the plants, although it is still there, but the brown looking algae has started to come back a little on the gravel and rocks. I also noted on one of my slow growing grass type plants a black furry type of algae!  >:(

I am overdosing my carbon (rec is 3ml daily and I am dosing 5ml daily). I am wondering if the algae that is going black is the algae dying?

Also I am seriously thinking about getting either a Vecton or a Helix type UV Steralizer. Would a UV light help with killing off Algae? I know that the algae already present on the decor.plants etc will not be affected but I am hoping that it may help it stop getting worse?

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Bristlenose Plec (2) - Golden Barb (8) - Angelfish (8) - Platy (8) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Panda Cory (8) - Rosy Barb (7) - Boeseman's Rainbowfish (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Skull

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #59 on: February 17, 2013, 12:22:21 PM »
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Hi Mervyn I have a heavily planted tank and have been having the same issues as you have had mine was down to a flow issue. I put my spray bar on the rear of my tank in the middle and added two power heads either side now my flow is fantastic and all my plants are swaying lovely my algae now seems to be disserpearing you don't need to go for the expense of power heads but go with natalia idea of having two spray bars running across the back of your tank as this will get your ferts and carbon  to all parts of your tank where your plants will bennifit more helping to ruduce your algae problem

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Harlequin Rasbora (10) - Panda Cory (12) - Zebra Loach (3) - Neon Tetra (10) - Rummy Nose Tetra (10) - Cardinal Tetra (10) - Cherry Barb (3) - Salt and Pepper Catfish (3) - Fiveband Barb (4) - X-ray Tetra (4) - Cherry Barb (3) - Zebra Loach (2) - Rummy Nose Tetra (2) - Panda Cory (10) - Dwarf Rainbowfish (1) - Harlequin Rasbora (6) - White Cloud Mountain Minnow (3) - Glowlight Tetra (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


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