Confusion About Lighting.

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Offline Mervyn

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2013, 12:10:40 PM »
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Hi Helen,
Thanks.

My tank finished its cycle towards the end of November last year and I only have the API test kit. I dare not suggest to the wife for any more. She is more than fed up with what I have spent already as we are on pensions. ;) My water though is classified as very hard and my ph is 8ppm.

The T5 lighting 2 x 45w, came with the Juwel tank as it was all brand new. I used to have the lighting on twice daily for about 8 1/2 hrs daily but switched to once daily for 8hrs and now 7hrs on the advice of the online store that I got my ferts from. It is a well known online plant company beginning with the letter A.

The tank does not catch any sunlight but it does get some daylight.

I am using a fertilizer that does not have nite or phosphate as recommended for tanks without C02 and I have 2 litres of the stuff. I dose 8ml per day as recommended on the label (I estimate my tank as 160 Litres after decor etc)
I dose with liquid carbon daily...the recommended dosage for 160 Litres is 3ml but started dosing with 4ml yesterday to try to control the algae. Both fert and liquid C02 have the Neutro label.

The Cabomba is all but gone now :P and I will look at the Tropica site to see if I can identify the others.

Thanks for your help.

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Bristlenose Plec (2) - Golden Barb (8) - Angelfish (8) - Platy (8) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Panda Cory (8) - Rosy Barb (7) - Boeseman's Rainbowfish (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Helen

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2013, 05:17:48 PM »
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I take it that you are using the Neutro T and Neutro CO2 then?

I still keep coming back to the idea that you've got too much light in the tank. But I've not changed my lighting regime since I started my tank, and I managed to get rid of a similar looking algae. So I can't make up my mind whether this will help.

Perhaps it is related to the brown diatoms and it is something that will disappear when your tank settles down. If your tank has been cycled since November, it is still less than 6 months old and therefore not yet considered a 'mature' tank. But that doesn't actually help and you don't want to kill off all your plants while things sort themselves out.

What water changes do you do? I know I originally wanted a planted tank because I understood it to require fewer, smaller water changes. I think this is probably true when the tank has matured and is nicely balanced (it has less effect on the water quality if I'm late with a water change, or don't have time to do as big a change as normal), but I think this idea is perhaps a bit misleading when the tank is still maturing.

So as well as changing the lighting regime for a bit, to see if that has an effect, it is probably worth increasing the water change regime to see if that helps. Though, don't do them at the same time, as you'll never know which one works - if it helps. Try changing 25-30% water every week (or twice a week) for a couple months. And try to avoid vacuuming the gravel, especially around the plants. Not only does vacuuming disturb the plants' roots, but the mulm that filters through the gravel actually is quite a valuable fertiliser going to the plants roots. And when the plants start growing well, the algae should stop growing well.

By the sounds of it, the Camboba (in particular Red) needs a lot of care to do well, high light level, CO2 and fertile substrate. I have Limnophilia sessiflora in my tank, which looks similar but is less demanding. My T8 lights aren't really quite enough to get it really bushy, but I get around that by allowing it to grow along the water surface for a bit, before pruning and replanting the stems.

You should post some photos of the whole of your tank in the gallery section. We like looking at pics of everyone else's tanks!  ;)

Offline Mervyn

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2013, 05:29:35 PM »
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Hi Helen,
I already do a 30% water change twice weekly once on Monday and once on Friday...just done one today with a  change of white filter wool on the Eheim today as well.

I will reduce the "hoovering" to once a fortnight or once a month and see how that goes. I have only just started a reduced lighting period so will give that a while.

The red cabomba is all but finished now just a couple of lone stems left (the platies love to pull it to pieces).

I will certainly post a picture in the gallery but think I would prefer the tank to be a bit more mature first. :)

Was thinking about Nerite snails but the wife is absolutely adamant that I am not allowed any snails at all. :o

Thanks for your help

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Bristlenose Plec (2) - Golden Barb (8) - Angelfish (8) - Platy (8) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Panda Cory (8) - Rosy Barb (7) - Boeseman's Rainbowfish (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Natalia

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2013, 06:50:32 PM »
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Hi Mervin,
I just came back from work, so only saw your posts now...
Thanks for the photographs – they helped a lot. From what I can see, you have a selection of different types of algae. But not to panic!  :)As I said, identification is 50% of success. All of these algae types have their causes but what is common between them is: 1) CO2 levels in your tank water and 2) flow and distribution and 3) possible “mini-cycles”.
Without bothering you with a detailed explanation of the things behind my advice (too much to write and it will make the whole post far too much to take in), I will tell you what I would do:
-   Lighting regime: 3 hours to start, 4 hours “siesta” (during the time when there is ambient light available (e.g. day time), 3-4 hours period of light (for consistency, the lights in your tank have to go off and back on after the “siesta” during the day time – say, lights on from 9 am to 12:00 noon, lights off from 12 noon till 4 pm, lights on from 4 pm till 8 pm)
-   Stop hoovering the substrate completely (that is, if you have a LARGE area of unplanted substrate, you can hoover only this area – NOT pushing the tube too much down (only a centimetre or so down , if you really cannot bear it without hovering). What you can do instead is to use the tube to hoover just about the surface (0.5 cm) collecting any loose particles.
-   Water changes: 30% but once a week. Ideally, you need to prepare the water beforehand: pour it into buckets (if you have enough of them - but even half of “prepared” water is good). Leave the buckets at least overnight or – even better - for 24 hours before using for a water change. Overdose with your dechlorinator (2-3 times but it really does not matter as long as you overdose)
-   Clean the glass just before the water change. Optional: the elements of decor you can easily remove, can be cleaned in aquarium water with a new cheap toothbrush (just pour some water into a bucket or any other container you use for the tank only, clean with the brush, “wiggle” to rinse and put back into the tank) – when you do the water changes, before you cleaned the glass and before you took the water out to replace. If the decor is not easy to remove and place back – please, don’t bother doing it.
-   Continue dosing the nutrients as you did before
-   Water flow: I need some more info on this – what is your filter? Do you use a spray bar or the water from the filter comes out of a “nozzle”? Please, let me know. In any case – push the spray bar or the nozzle BELOW water surface about 2 inches.
This is a start. I cannot guarantee that this will work 100% (every single tank is different and what works for one does not work for another) – however, I think this is the right way to go for your tank. The algae will not go overnight but it should decrease slowly but steadily. When this period is over, you will be able to increase lighting. (I cannot predict for how long it will take, though – all depends on how well your tank responds).
Apart from your water flow, ideally, it would be helpful to know your tap water parameters (sorry again if you mentioned it already and I missed the post!).

Offline Natalia

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2013, 07:00:59 PM »
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Hi again,
I forgot to mention snails. Some of them are a menace but some of them a very handy helpers. Nerites are the helpers. “Correct” type of snails will actually help a lot with aquarium balance. They consume various sources of food which otherwise are pollutants to the tank. I do not have a single tank without snails. Nerites are a real “treasure” – they do not breed in freshwater tanks and they eat algae, leftover fish food and decaying plant matter – grossly contributing to the general cleanliness of the tank. I understand, you may have personal reservations against snails, so it is really up to you but if you decide to go ahead, Nerites are a very-very safe option. Only one or two will still make a difference in your tank...

Offline Mervyn

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2013, 04:22:18 AM »
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Hi Natalia,

Thanks very much for that. I will start that regime straight away.

I only have the API Master kit but according to my Water Co. my water is classed as Very Hard at 330mg. My PH is 8ppm

I am using an Eheim Pro 3 250 Filter. I can only get the spray bar just over an inch under water but if you think it is important I will try to add some more tube where the bar connects to the hook end and push it down further. It may be a while as I will have to try and get to the lfs for more tube as I have none left.

I will find it difficult but I will restrict myself to one water change per week and likewise will cease the hoovering. :P

I already "double" dose the dechlorinator but will add a bit more.

I have been checking the Nerite snails and rather like the idea but my wife is absolutely adamant that I am to have NO snails at all. I cannot get her to budge on that. :(

Oh, I should say that I am overdosing the Liquid C02....recommended dose is 3ml and I am dosing 4ml every 24hrs...I was told by the supplier that overdosing would help eradicate algae?  I am also dosing 8ml Fertilizer every 24hrs. This fertilizer does not contain phosphate or nitrates.

Hope I do not have to change the fert as I purchased a 2 litre bottle!! But would it help if I purchased a "complete" fert and maybe dosed each one every other day?? I have to watch the pennies though as we are both on pension.
Once again thanks for your help!!

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Bristlenose Plec (2) - Golden Barb (8) - Angelfish (8) - Platy (8) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Panda Cory (8) - Rosy Barb (7) - Boeseman's Rainbowfish (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2013, 12:28:02 PM »
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Is the reason your wife doesn't want snails because she can't stand garden snails? Nerite snails do not look like slugs with shells on their backs. Unless they are on front glass, you can't see their bodies, just a tiny pair of antennae peeping out of the edge of the shell. Have a look at the pic in the last post here http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,34.msg1463.html#new this is one of my zebra nerites on the wood.

Offline Mervyn

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2013, 12:36:43 PM »
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Hi Sue,
I have shown her pics but for some reason she does not want/like the idea! Strange as she does not mind spiders....even the huge house spiders that we seem to get,or any other creature!!

I will keep chipping away though...she may change her mind....we are hopefully going to the local lfs later today and if they have any snails I will make certain we pass by them. ;)

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Bristlenose Plec (2) - Golden Barb (8) - Angelfish (8) - Platy (8) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Panda Cory (8) - Rosy Barb (7) - Boeseman's Rainbowfish (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Mervyn

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2013, 01:00:42 PM »
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Well I am getting there with the snails.....would 2 do for my rio 180? and do they contribute much to the tank stocking capacity?

Just got back from the LFS and I have two Zebra Nerite snails  ;D Only got two as they were £3.75 each :o

One question though.....the lfs said they would grow to 2.5cm but I am sure I read somewhere that they can grow up to 5cm??

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Bristlenose Plec (2) - Golden Barb (8) - Angelfish (8) - Platy (8) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Panda Cory (8) - Rosy Barb (7) - Boeseman's Rainbowfish (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline ColinB

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2013, 02:21:06 PM »
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A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Panda Cory (7) - Honey Gourami (3) - Ember Tetra (9) - Lemon Tetra (4) - Cherry Barb (1) - Otocinclus (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Mervyn

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2013, 02:30:05 PM »
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Thankyou ColinB......answers that problem then, up to 2.5cm, the other site I read from was not telling the complete truth then!  ;)

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Bristlenose Plec (2) - Golden Barb (8) - Angelfish (8) - Platy (8) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Panda Cory (8) - Rosy Barb (7) - Boeseman's Rainbowfish (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2013, 03:07:04 PM »
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I have three types of nerite:
Zebras, which have grown to an inch
Red onion/racing stripe/tracked (all names for the same snails) which are also an inch
Bee/bumblebee/horned nerites, which are half an inch (smaller species)

They are all wonderful algae eaters, though they do 'poo' a lot particularly if they have been grazing on wood!

Offline Sue

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2013, 03:15:18 PM »
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I would stick with the two you have for now and see how things go. You can always get more, wife permitting, next time the shop has some. They don't take up much of your stocking allowance. The community creator gives the similar sized apple snails a stocking level of 0 cm, though I'd say maybe 1 or 2 cm because of the amount of waste they create.

Nerites have a habit of falling on their backs. They have to come almost completely out of their shells to grab on to something to turn back over and if you have fish like mine they'll take a great interest in what the snail is doing. My fish pick at the snails till it goes back in the shell and it takes the poor things ages to get right way up. If I see them on their backs I turn them over.

Offline Mervyn

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2013, 03:18:07 PM »
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Thanks Sue,
One of the snails is moving about but the other one has not budged an inch? I will keep a close eye on that one just in case it is a duff one!! The fish are nosing around them  ;)

What life expectancy should I get from them? I know it varies but would like a rough idea how long they normally live.

Thanks

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Bristlenose Plec (2) - Golden Barb (8) - Angelfish (8) - Platy (8) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Panda Cory (8) - Rosy Barb (7) - Boeseman's Rainbowfish (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2013, 03:40:12 PM »
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Keep an eye on the one, dead snails can pollute the tank quickly. To check if a snail is dead, lift it out of the water and sniff it cautiously. The smell of a dead snail is something you won't forget. Don't take a huge sniff as it is one of those smells that lingers in the nose for hours.......


Life expectancy:
I have 2 red and 2 zebra bought on 13 July 2011, all going strong.
I have one bee nerite bought 8 March 2008.
One zebra nerite died last year - bought 20 Sept 2008, found dead 28 Aug 2012
(yes I do keep records of what I buy  ;D )

But not all the snails I've had have lived that long, some have died after a couple of months.

Word of warning - they are very, very susceptible to some fish meds, especially those that contain copper. I've learned that the hard way. Now whenever I have to treat the tanks, I take the snails out. If you have quarantine tank use that, if not a tub of water changed every day should be OK. Make sure the med is removed (water changes, carbon, even Polyfilter) before putting them back.


Oh yes, another thing. They are escape artists. I was fed up of going into the kitchen in the morning and having to be careful where I put my feet. The two cutouts in the lid now have clumps of filter wool in them. Though the ones in the Juwel Rio have never got out, maybe they don't like crossing the trim to get to the cutout, the kitchen tank is just nice smooth glass to the hole  ;D


Offline Mervyn

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2013, 03:51:58 PM »
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Thanks Sue,
Well they have been in the tank for at least 2hrs and the one still has not moved. If it is in the same position about 6pm I will have a small sniff......problem is, I have a cold, and I dare not ask the wife to have a whiff as if it is not alive, and it smells as bad as you say they smell she definitely will not let me have any more.

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Bristlenose Plec (2) - Golden Barb (8) - Angelfish (8) - Platy (8) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Panda Cory (8) - Rosy Barb (7) - Boeseman's Rainbowfish (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2013, 03:54:15 PM »
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The smell would probably get through your cold. Sniff it outdoors, she might smell it from across the room if it's dead. OK maybe that's a bit of exaggeration but you get the idea about the smell  ;D



Or find a tub, and float it with a bit of water and the snail. If it's alive it will climb out in its own time; if not it won't harm the tank. Some snails do take a while to acclimatise, like fish.

Offline Mervyn

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2013, 04:42:02 PM »
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Thanks Sue,
It is not stinking at the moment.

I have sourced a small plastic dish (which floats) and will put the snail in just before the tank lights are due to go off. Else would it "go off" too much if it is dead,  if I left it where it was overnight?

Take into account that I am up at 4am.

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Bristlenose Plec (2) - Golden Barb (8) - Angelfish (8) - Platy (8) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Panda Cory (8) - Rosy Barb (7) - Boeseman's Rainbowfish (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2013, 04:44:09 PM »
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Leaving it there that long isn't a problem. You may well find it moves during the night. It's just that putting it in a tub means you don't have to keep checking it that often  ;D

Offline Mervyn

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Re: Confusion about lighting.
« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2013, 04:46:02 PM »
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Thanks Sue,
Keeping an eye is not a problem. When I had a sniff!! I placed right at the front of the tank in a place where I can glance at it during the TV ads without straining my neck  ;D

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Bristlenose Plec (2) - Golden Barb (8) - Angelfish (8) - Platy (8) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Panda Cory (8) - Rosy Barb (7) - Boeseman's Rainbowfish (7) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


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