Author Topic: Amazon sword - cobweb-like leaves but new ones sprouting (Read 8604 times) 55 replies

Matt · « **Reply #20 on:** November 23, 2019, 07:28:09 PM »

I've found spot dosing guteraldehyde (liquid carbon) during a water change to be quite effective with BBA. Though be careful not to add too much to the tank as you do it. I lost a lot of vallisneria as a result of over jealous spot dosing!

fcmf · « **Reply #21 on:** November 25, 2019, 11:46:16 AM »

Thanks, both. BBA and diatoms aren't so bad that I need to take drastic action, and tank is fully stocked, so otos aren't an option for me.
The Flourish tabs arrived in today's mail and now in situ - fingers crossed for a dramatic improvement in the plant's health...

jaypeecee · « **Reply #22 on:** November 25, 2019, 12:12:56 PM »

Quote from: fcmf on November 25, 2019, 11:46:16 AM

The Flourish tabs arrived in today's mail and now in situ - fingers crossed for a dramatic improvement in the plant's health...

Hi @fcmf

I've also got my fingers crossed for you. As I mentioned previously, please try to minimize the light falling on your Amazon Swords. I seem to recall that you have fluorescent tank lighting. Perhaps you could also remind me what the water KH and GH are at present.

JPC

Sue · « **Reply #23 on:** November 25, 2019, 12:35:31 PM »

I can answer that for her. Both very low as she lives in Scotland.

fcmf · « **Reply #24 on:** November 25, 2019, 02:51:43 PM »

KH and GH are indeed low - although I notice that the recently replenished Tufa rock seems to be helping and I do notice clouds of chalk coming off it if I tamper with it during tank maintenance. From tap water, KH and GH are 1 and 2-3 respectively; from tank water, they are 2-3 and 4.

jaypeecee · « **Reply #25 on:** November 25, 2019, 05:56:00 PM »

Quote from: fcmf on November 25, 2019, 02:51:43 PM

KH and GH are indeed low - although I notice that the recently replenished Tufa rock seems to be helping and I do notice clouds of chalk coming off it if I tamper with it during tank maintenance. From tap water, KH and GH are 1 and 2-3 respectively; from tank water, they are 2-3 and 4.

Hi @fcmf

Thanks for the figures. Do you happen to know the pH of the tank water? I ask for several reasons, all of which you may have already considered:

(1) Although not 100% reliable, we can get an idea of how much dissolved CO2 you have in your tank. I'm thinking about a carbon source for your plants.

(2) With a low KH, have you ever had a pH crash in your tank?

(3) I know that you keep Nerites and I know that you provide them with a calcium-rich food source. But, a pH less than, say, 6.5, may erode their shells.

I offer these questions out of curiosity and hopefully to be helpful in some small way.

JPC

fcmf · « **Reply #26 on:** November 25, 2019, 06:32:14 PM »

Thanks, @jaypeecee. Actually, I meant to mention the PH issue the other day when talking about water hardness (or softness being the more appropriate term!) but was being called away and forgot to resume that rushed post. Oddly, the PH here is actually alkaline (almost 8, according to the water company!) - but, from recollection, it used to be acidic ~10 years ago. I'm wondering if something is now added to the water to enable that and prevent PH drops, given how soft the water is. It seems to be the same for various postcodes around the country. The website does state "The pH level in your water supply must be controlled so it doesn’t corrode the metal distribution pipes by being too acidic, or leave deposits on the pipes if it’s too alkaline." My strip-based test kit always gives an acidic reading (an error or picking up something about the 'natural' PH..?!), while the liquid-based test kits have always given a reading consistent with the water quality report, including after standing for ~24hrs.

(1) Total carbon is around 1.3 - does that help?
(2) Not in past 5 years, but I did have trouble fishless cycling (albeit with fish food method). However, in the past when much less knowledgeable, I'm almost certain I had PH crashes as PH was around 6 at some stages albeit I only tested very occasionally, usually when there were tank problems.

(3) Hopefully this is circumvented by whatever is being added to increase the PH.

fcmf · « **Reply #27 on:** November 28, 2019, 07:58:02 PM »

Seachem Flourish tabs in situ for 3 days and... not one iota of difference yet. Hoping for some action over the next week or two...

Matt · « **Reply #28 on:** November 28, 2019, 08:08:19 PM »

Too soon to tell just yet!

Patience... don't forget there x15 less co2 in your tank than in the atmosphere...!

jaypeecee · « **Reply #29 on:** November 29, 2019, 10:27:52 AM »

Quote from: fcmf on November 25, 2019, 06:32:14 PM

Thanks, @jaypeecee. Actually, I meant to mention the PH issue the other day when talking about water hardness (or softness being the more appropriate term!) but was being called away and forgot to resume that rushed post. Oddly, the PH here is actually alkaline (almost 8, according to the water company!) - but, from recollection, it used to be acidic ~10 years ago. I'm wondering if something is now added to the water to enable that and prevent PH drops, given how soft the water is. It seems to be the same for various postcodes around the country. The website does state "The pH level in your water supply must be controlled so it doesn’t corrode the metal distribution pipes by being too acidic, or leave deposits on the pipes if it’s too alkaline." My strip-based test kit always gives an acidic reading (an error or picking up something about the 'natural' PH..?!), while the liquid-based test kits have always given a reading consistent with the water quality report, including after standing for ~24hrs.

(1) Total carbon is around 1.3 - does that help?
(2) Not in past 5 years, but I did have trouble fishless cycling (albeit with fish food method). However, in the past when much less knowledgeable, I'm almost certain I had PH crashes as PH was around 6 at some stages albeit I only tested very occasionally, usually when there were tank problems.
(3) Hopefully this is circumvented by whatever is being added to increase the PH.

Hi @fcmf

Thanks for the feedback. The fact that your water company appears to have increased the water pH makes sense. With reference to strip-based test kits, as you know, they can be notoriously unreliable.

(1) Yes, the figure is of interest. My water company's figure for Total Organic Carbon is also around the same figure. This means that the plants have a source of carbon regardless of what the inhabitants contribute.

(2) OK.

(3) As your pH is 8, this should not be any cause for concern*.

*Edit on 7/12/19: this comment was written with the snails in mind.

JPC

jaypeecee · « **Reply #30 on:** November 29, 2019, 10:42:51 AM »

Quote from: fcmf on November 28, 2019, 07:58:02 PM

Seachem Flourish tabs in situ for 3 days and... not one iota of difference yet. Hoping for some action over the next week or two...

Hi @fcmf

I can only echo what @Matt has said. It may be worth taking a snapshot of your Swords at weekly intervals in order to gauge progress (or, dare I say, lack thereof?). With all the best will in the world and armed with some scientific understanding, Nature still takes its own course.

JPC

fcmf · « **Reply #31 on:** December 04, 2019, 07:15:23 PM »

Quote from: Matt on November 19, 2019, 04:51:13 AM

I reckon some more substrate and a change of light bulb would be beneficial. Neither cam hurt I suspect.

I don't like wasting anything so was delaying changing the lightbulb. As it happens, though, there was a lot of flickering occurring over the past half hour, albeit it seemed to be more annoying for me than for the fish. Then - whoosh - the lightbulb died. The spare fluorescent lightbulb is now in situ and, goodness, it's a lot brighter - to the extent that the cardinals have all ducked for cover under a silk plant and it really highlights just how very elderly one harlequin rasbora is looking.

Matt · « **Reply #32 on:** December 05, 2019, 07:55:38 PM »

Great to hear the new bulb has made a difference. I so often see people doubting whether it can make such a difference replacing the bulbs... good to see your direct experience that it does! (Im on all LEDs)

Be on the watch out for an increase in algae. You may want to reduce the lighting period if you encounter issues. We can think longer term about what we might need to do to ensure you maintain a good balance in the aquarium if needs be but reduce the lighting duration as a quick fix if you do see any!

jaypeecee · « **Reply #33 on:** December 06, 2019, 10:18:40 PM »

Quote from: fcmf on December 04, 2019, 07:15:23 PM

The spare fluorescent lightbulb is now in situ and, goodness, it's a lot brighter - to the extent that the cardinals have all ducked for cover under a silk plant and it really highlights just how very elderly one harlequin rasbora is looking.

Hi @fcmf

And could you let us have an update on the Amazon Swords?

JPC

Sue · « **Reply #34 on:** December 07, 2019, 09:28:21 AM »

Strictly speaking, fluorescent tubes should be replaced every year because with this type of tube the light output deceases with age. LEDs are different. They go from full brightness to dead. Since LED bulbs and tubes are made from lots of individual LEDs it can have a dimming effect as more and more die within the bulb/tube.

fcmf · « **Reply #35 on:** December 07, 2019, 01:52:53 PM »

Quote from: jaypeecee on December 06, 2019, 10:18:40 PM

And could you let us have an update on the Amazon Swords

Absolutely no change whatsoever - neither worse nor better. However, I'm seeing this as a positive - I've never been fortunate/skilled enough to have plants that have ever required pruning or trimming back, and to have a plant neither dying nor already dead by this stage is an achievement.

The floating plants have all but died - they were gradually turning yellow/brown and depleting in numbers, and only a few petals now remain.

Some longstanding anubias I've had finally gave up the ghost today and disintegrated. I think the plastic-coated wire (forget the name for these things), used to keep it attached to the wood, had probably 'strangled' it, hence the disintegration when I tried to re-attach it after giving the wood a scrub during today's water change.

However, I'm pleased the Amazon swords (strictly, one Amazon sword divided into two) are still there.

Sue · « **Reply #36 on:** December 07, 2019, 02:23:15 PM »

I recently discovered that anubias aren't actually aquatic plants but marginal plants which is why they have a tendency to give up and die after a while. My coffeefolia all but died, I only have a small bit still hanging on, and one of my big two is now down to a third of the size it was a couple of weeks ago.

jaypeecee · « **Reply #37 on:** December 07, 2019, 02:49:21 PM »

Quote from: fcmf on December 07, 2019, 01:52:53 PM

Quote from: jaypeecee on December 06, 2019, 10:18:40 PM
And could you let us have an update on the Amazon Swords
Absolutely no change whatsoever - neither worse nor better. However, I'm seeing this as a positive - I've never been fortunate/skilled enough to have plants that have ever required pruning or trimming back, and to have a plant neither dying nor already dead by this stage is an achievement.

The floating plants have all but died - they were gradually turning yellow/brown and depleting in numbers, and only a few petals now remain.

Some longstanding anubias I've had finally gave up the ghost today and disintegrated. I think the plastic-coated wire (forget the name for these things), used to keep it attached to the wood, had probably 'strangled' it, hence the disintegration when I tried to re-attach it after giving the wood a scrub during today's water change.

However, I'm pleased the Amazon swords (strictly, one Amazon sword divided into two) are still there.

Hi @fcmf

OK, that's all valuable information. As the floating plants have access to atmospheric CO2, the reason they will have perished is a lack of nutrients (fertilizers) in the water column. You will need an all-inclusive fertilizer that contains both macro and micro nutrients. Now that your lighting is brighter due to the new fluorescent tube/bulb, that will increase the requirement for fertilizers. TNC Complete comes to mind and you may be able to get it from Amazon. But there are plenty of alternatives. That may be all that's needed right now but we may also need to include a source of additional carbon if the Swords show little sign of growth.

BTW, Anubias thrive in low-light conditions. They don't take well to lots of light.

JPC

fcmf · « **Reply #38 on:** December 07, 2019, 03:17:29 PM »

Argh - frustratingly, I lost my post as the photo in it was too large to attach, so I'll try again.

Thanks. I have a bottle of https://seachem.co.uk/product/seachem-flourish/ in the fridge, plus some frozen cubes of it in the freezer, BBE/expiry 08/2020 although opened a few years ago. [Edited to add: https://www.seachem.com/support/forums/forum/sunken-gardens/24397-flourish-expire-date - good news.] If that were to address the micro elements, presumably I'd need a macro fertiliser with minimal phosphorus given my high phosphate level?

Anubias thrived in "dead corner" - the darkest corner where no other plant has survived more than 48 hours. Unfortunately it kept detaching itself from the stone there, hence its relocation, and ultimate demise after being 'strangled' onto the wood.

This photo is of what remains of the floating plants. I used to have them completely filling 3 of these feeding rings, to prevent them being pushed around the tank in the water flow. This wouldn't have adversely affected them, would it? [Edited to add: can't shrink photo any further, so will have to do without its addition.]

Matt · « **Reply #39 on:** December 07, 2019, 06:49:17 PM »

Flourish nitrogen will be the only other product you need as the standard flourish contains potassium, and you don't want to increase your phosphorus. However you may get away without it IF you have enough nitrate in your water... what do you get as pre and post water change nitrate readings?

Definately agree with JPC that you should start doing the seachems flourish at the normal recommended dose rate.

The rings should not have affected your floating plants. I would use these as your target... get these growing well as this means conditions will be right for the slower growing sword.

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Amazon Sword - Cobweb-like Leaves But New Ones Sprouting

Amazon Sword - Cobweb-like Leaves But New Ones Sprouting

Author Topic: Amazon sword - cobweb-like leaves but new ones sprouting (Read 8604 times) 55 replies

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