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Whitespot - And The Consequences Of The Import Spot Variety - ESHa Exit

Author Topic: Whitespot - and the consequences of the Import Spot variety - eSHa Exit  (Read 27983 times)

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Offline Fiona

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #100 on: April 06, 2016, 04:36:11 PM »
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pease start a snail thread Sue, I'll try and take one of my yellow apples snails

Offline Sue

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #101 on: April 06, 2016, 05:07:39 PM »
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See thread in Gallery Showcase  :)

Offline Fiona

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #102 on: April 06, 2016, 06:37:31 PM »
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Ta :)

Offline Sue

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #103 on: April 18, 2016, 04:16:14 PM »
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Here we go again  :vcross:



Two weeks ago I managed to kill my male apisto during a water change  :'( (I took my eyes of the end of the tube while moving some wood and sucked him up. It was not pleasant for either of us)
On Thursday 7 April (11 days ago) we went to a not so near shop to get some more dechlorinator and they had the same fish so I came home with a m/f pair. They were only sold as pairs and my big tank has enough room for 3 females. The new fish have never shown any trace of a spot.
Last Wednesday one female cherry barb had one spot. So I started another 3 day course of eSHa Exit, Wed to Fri. Yesterday I noticed several barbs and a pencilfish had spots. And I've run out of Exit.
My preferred whitespot medication has always been King British original formula WS3 but after the fish section at a local garden centre was taken over by Maidenhead Aquatics they stopped selling it. Because I have no idea which shops do sell it, I bought some on ebay and paid for 24 hour delivery; it has been dispatched today. It would probably have cost more in diesel driving round to find some.

This med kills snails so I have set up the QT and moved the snails and the wood covered with bolbitis into it. It only took 5 mins to find all of them this time. I know I'll have moved some stage 2 and stage 3 whitespot parasites to the QT as well but the snails will be in there for a few weeks till every trace of the medication has been removed so the bugs should have  died off by the time the snails and wood go back.




I can't believe that fish from 2 different shops both brought in whitespot while the purchased fish were not affected on either occasion.



What is going on  ???

Offline Fiona

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #104 on: April 18, 2016, 04:28:01 PM »
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Oh my word, that's seriously bad luck Sue!!!

Maybe the old fish get stressed by the addition of new fish, that's the only thing I can think of.

Offline Sue

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #105 on: April 18, 2016, 04:38:56 PM »
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After these two episodes I will definitely quarantine any fish I get from now on. And I've half a mind to treat them for whitespot while in quarantine just in case. Even leaving them in the QT for a month without treatment  might not be enough as neither batch of new fish showed any signs of whitespot at all.


At least the Microdevarios are clear this time. So far.

Offline Extreme_One

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #106 on: April 18, 2016, 04:43:08 PM »
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What a run of misfortune! Sorry to hear this Sue. I'm sure you'll get on top of things soon though.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #107 on: April 18, 2016, 04:46:27 PM »
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Wow, that is an awful run of bad luck.  :(
I hope that all fish recover rapidly. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for all of them.  :)

Offline fcmf

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #108 on: April 18, 2016, 07:21:58 PM »
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Poor you, Sue. I think your suggestions about quarantining and additionally treating for whitespot in any future purposes sound excellent precautionary measures.

Offline Sue

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #109 on: April 20, 2016, 12:40:04 PM »
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The new medication arrived in the post yesterday lunchtime, and I added it straight away.

King British make 2 whitepots meds - Whitespot Control and Original Formula WS3. As far as I can make out the only difference is the strength. The dose rate for Whitespot Contol is 1 ml per 9 litres, while WS3 is 1 ml for 90 litres. With a 180 litre tank, the first would take 20ml per dose, the second 2ml. A 100 ml bottle of Whitespot Control won't last me long which is why I bought Original Formula WS3.

The packaging warns in white text on a red square
Quote
When treating an aquarium containing loaches, sharks or "scaleless" fish USE HALF THE RECOMMENDED DOSE
I have dwarf chain loaches, Ambastaia sidthimunki, so I have always used this product at half dose and extended the the length of treatment.


The treatment regime is to add the calculated dose every 48 hours and again 48 hours after the spots have gone. After 5 doses do a 10% water change and if necessary continue the treatment. It also says that whitespot can take up to 2 weeks to clear. Because of having to use half dose, I intend to continue treating for at least 2 weeks, regardless of when the spots actually disappear.

Then I will need to make sure any trace of the med is removed before I can put the snails back.


Note to self - get more carbon!




I've just had to do a water change on the QT with the snails and wood/bolbitis. They've only been in there 2 days but the amount of snail poo was unbelievable  ;D

Offline Sue

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #110 on: April 27, 2016, 12:29:05 PM »
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Just an update to this thread.

I noticed spots on some fish on Sunday 17 April. I cleaned the tank the following day (18th) and while I was doing it noticed a male and female albino cherry barb were flicking on the sand.
The first dose of medication was added on Tuesday 19th.
The first spots on the barbs were visible on Wednesday 20th. They would have been infected on Mon 18th the way they were flicking, it just took 2 days for the parasites to become visible.

I forgot to turn the heater up until Saturday 23rd when I noticed the tank was not as warm as it should have been  :-[ so it would have taken slightly longer for the parasites to become visible than if I had remembered.

The spots on the pencilfish and natural coloured barbs disappeared late last week.

The spots were still visible on the albino barbs yesterday, Tuesday 26th. I say visible, but it is tricky seeing white spots on pale yellow fish  :(

The lights came on at midday and the spots have gone. I think. It is 10 days since I noticed the albino barbs flashing, though it would have been slightly less if I'd remembered to turn the heater up.


This should give some idea of timescale for anyone experiencing whitespot for the first time.




This afternoon I'll do a water change (which I should have done on Monday but things got in the way) then I'll add another dose of medication.
The instructions say to add every 48 hours while the fish have spots, then 48 hours after the spots have gone. Because I'm using half dose (loaches) I will continue dosing for longer.

Offline Paddyc

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #111 on: April 27, 2016, 01:34:30 PM »
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It definitely arms me with the information I need for when (hopefully not) I find whitespot on my fish. Thank you for the update Sue and I hope your barbs are indeed on the mend  :)

Offline Sue

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #112 on: April 27, 2016, 03:48:25 PM »
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I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS!!!!!


I have just done a water change. As usual the last 4 (of 12) Microdevario kubotai totally ingnored me and and were chasing each other round my hands.

1 of them has a spot right at the end of the upper tail lobe  :'(


I suppose it might just might be a bite mark as they have been hyperactive since I turned the heater up but I can't take any chances.

Offline Paddyc

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #113 on: April 27, 2016, 04:55:43 PM »
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Uh oh.... If it is whitespot that will be so frustrating for you Sue, fingers crossed it doesn't come to that  :(

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #114 on: April 27, 2016, 09:14:55 PM »
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Oh Sue, how frustrating.
I know it's not often anyone hopes that a fish has been nipped, but in this case....fingers crossed.

Offline Fiona

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #115 on: April 27, 2016, 11:16:34 PM »
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Sue atm I can't remember where the article was but I read that whitespot is becoming resistant to some meds. Might be worth trying another

Offline Extreme_One

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #116 on: April 28, 2016, 07:33:58 AM »
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How frustrating!  :vcross:

Offline fcmf

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #117 on: April 28, 2016, 07:56:18 AM »
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If it does turn out to be what your worst fears are, unfortunately it does show what a persistent condition this can be. I can remember you also mentioning a persistent outbreak of camallanus worms some time ago. It seems as though medications aren't keeping up with being able to treat/banish these conditions too easily.

Offline Sue

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #118 on: April 28, 2016, 04:53:08 PM »
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It's definitely whitespot. Another of the Microdevarios has spots today  - though it might have done yesterday, they are fast for such small fish - and one of the female natural cherry barbs also has spots.

7 April - bought apistos
13 April - saw a spot on 1 female cherry barb.
13 to 15 April - added a three day course of eSHa Exit, using the last in the bottle for the third dose.
17 April - found more fish with spots (inc natural barbs and pencilfish), ordered King British Original Formula WS3 on line - and paid for next day delivery. As this was a Sunday, the earliest it could arrive was Tuesday 19 April.
18 April - albino cherry barbs flicking on sand during a water change - obviously infected but spots too small to see
19 April - WS3 arrived in post and added first dose at half strength because I have loaches.
21 April - added next dose
23 April - next dose, and remembered to turn heater up
25 April - next dose
27 April - spots gone from albino cherry barbs, they had gone from the other fish earlier. Did water change and noticed spots on Microdevarios. Next dose of med but decided to do full strength.
28 April - noticed another Microdevario with spots but it may have had them yesterday. And a natural female barb.



The med does say it can take 10 days for the infection to clear and I did forget to turn the heater up for a few days so that will make it longer.
The two meds I've used have different ingredients so if necessary I will find a third med with yet different ingredients.
Some people have success with just heat alone, others with heat and salt, though I don't want to use salt with my fish. But there is a strain of whitespot that can survive raised temps  :-\

A few years ago it did take three courses of treatment to clear it so I'll hang on a bit longer.

Offline Fiona

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #119 on: April 29, 2016, 08:02:20 AM »
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You have my sympathies Sue. It's so frustrating when the meds don't work  :(

Offline Sue

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #120 on: May 02, 2016, 09:48:24 AM »
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The only fish that have had spots for several days were the cherry barbs, and they never seemed to go away.

I woke up on Saturday to a dead female albino, yesterday to six dead barbs and this morning to 2 more. The remaining ones looked so awful that I've put them down.
They've been going downhill all week. First ragged tails, then floating nose down at 45 degrees. I think the temperature got to them. When I could get on Seriously Fish, their max temp for cherry barbs was 27 deg and I've turned the tank temp up to 30.

All the other fish look fine. The pencilfish are chasing each other round, as are the Microdevario. The apistos are great, the male is busy displaying to the females. The stiphodons are fine as well, three of the six have coloured up to blue. Even the loaches, which are in theory sensitive to the full dose of WS3, are swimming round normally.

It's just the barbs. I did lose a male natural coloured barb a month ago after treating with eSHa Exit so it's more likely to be the raised temp rather than the med.



In a few weeks, I'll get some more fish to replace the barbs but this time they'll go into quarantine.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #121 on: May 02, 2016, 09:55:18 AM »
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So sorry to hear about your barbs.  :(
I don't know what else to say.

Offline Sue

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #122 on: May 02, 2016, 10:00:52 AM »
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I was concerned about the barbs for several days, they didn't look very good. I was caught between a rock and a hard place - did I turn the temp down, which would mean adding med for longer and risk all the fish being affected, or keep the temp high and risk just the barbs. Not an easy decision to make  :(

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #123 on: May 02, 2016, 10:11:05 AM »
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A very difficult situation to be in, and sometimes all you can do is limit the risks to a smaller group rather than risk the whole tank.
It's such a shame after all of your hard work to treat the fish, but it's good to hear that all the other fish are swimming around and looking good.

Offline Matt

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #124 on: May 02, 2016, 10:30:18 AM »
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Your fish couldn't be in better hands Sue, sometimes mother nature just takes its course... sorry to hear about this, I can only imagine...

How long do you plan on keeping the temp/dosing up?

Offline fcmf

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #125 on: May 02, 2016, 12:03:41 PM »
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Very sorry to read of this situation, Sue, but think you took the right course of action in the 'temp .v. duration of treatment' decision. My sincere condolences, and fingers crossed that the other fish remain relatively unscathed and thrive from now on.

Offline Fiona

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #126 on: May 02, 2016, 12:10:29 PM »
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Sad news Sue. I woud have done the same in your shoes.

Offline Sue

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #127 on: May 02, 2016, 12:29:13 PM »
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I think there is a spot on the tip of the dorsal fin on one of the loaches. They are very hard to study as they bounce around the back of the tank and run away at the slightest movement from outside. The instructions say to add a dose 48 hours after the last spot disappears so I'll keep an eye on the fish and maybe add another dose after another 48 hours. Then I can turn the heater down and run some carbon.

But I'll wait at least a month before buying any more fish.

Offline Fiona

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #128 on: May 02, 2016, 12:48:53 PM »
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After my whitespot disaster I vowed never to put anymore fish into the main tank without quarantining it. My QT finished cycling Friday and it's now home to some very nervous looking rummynose tetras. I have however added some white tipped tetras to my 200l. I did so on the basis I've never had disease issues from that specific shop and I found out why the other week. I got a tour of the back of the shop (a treat as it's a customer free zone) the other week and they quarantine ALL their fish for 2 weeks before they go out on display. So adding them to the main tank is a calculated risk, the rummies come from MA so they're in quarantine.

Offline Sue

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #129 on: May 02, 2016, 06:56:02 PM »
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***Huge sigh of relief***

I dropped a JBL tab into the tank when I fed the fish this evening as I know the loaches are partial to this type of food. I managed to get it right at the front of the tank, then I sat and waited. It didn't take the loaches long to find it, and because I was there already and sitting very still they ignored me - and none of them had any spots!

Though I now have a shoal of pencilfish with very extended bellies. For fish that are supposed to swim in the upper half of the tank, they helped make short work of the tablet.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #130 on: May 02, 2016, 08:02:36 PM »
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Congratulations, that's great news. Certainly worth a few tubby bellies.  :)

Offline Fiona

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #131 on: May 03, 2016, 09:02:35 AM »
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Phew! Hopefully you're over the worst now Sue. Crossing fingers for you.

Offline Sue

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #132 on: May 12, 2016, 08:16:07 PM »
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Another update.

WS3 says to add the med every 48 hours till the spots have gone, then another dose 48 hours later. After my last post I added what I hoped would be a final dose of WS3 on 3 May.

On 4 May, the Microdevarios had spots.

On 5 May we went to Redcar so my husband could go to Morrisons and buy fish so I went to the shop round the corner and bought a bottle of Waterlife Protozin. I know you are supposed to remove the old med with carbon before adding another, but WS3 and Protzin are almost the same - WS3 contains malachite green, acraflavin and quinine sulphate while Protozin contains malachite green and copper sulphate - so I didn't use any carbon to remove the old med.

Protozin is dosed on days 1, 2, 3 and 6. That's May 5th, 6th, 7th and 10th. The bottle held only 5 doses for a 180 litre tank, so I added another dose on 11th.

On the 8th, the microdevarios still had spots. The nerites had been in the QT for 19 days so I put them in the betta's tank and moved the microdevarios into the QT. While I've been dosing the main tank with Protozin I've been adding WS3 to the QT every 24 hours rather than 48.



This evening, 12 May, none of the fish in the main tank have shown any signs of spots for a week. I've had a few panic moments only to realise when the fish in question moved that it was just the tank lights reflecting off a scale.
The microdevarios appear to have been spot free for the last 3 days. It is hard to be sure because the light on that tank isn't brilliant and they swim very fast even in 25 litres. Bu they'll stay in there at least another week.



I'm hoping this is the end.

Talking to the chap in the shop, he said there are 2 forms of whitespot and the 'import' is very hard to get rid of. Sounds like that's what I've had  :(

Offline fcmf

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #133 on: May 12, 2016, 08:26:56 PM »
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I had been wondering only yesterday how the situation was.

Good grief - you've "been through the mill" with this! I sincerely hope too that this is the end.

[I assume the fish your husband bought were for a different purpose than going in a fishtank! ;)]

Offline Sue

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #134 on: May 12, 2016, 08:28:31 PM »
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I assume the fish your husband bought were for a different purpose than going in a fishtank! ;)

Yes, they were for his dinner plate  ;D



I'm hoping the copper sulphate in Protozin has done the trick in the main tank, and the twice the dose rate of WS3 has sorted the microdevarios - I couldn't have done that in the main tank as I have loaches.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #135 on: May 12, 2016, 08:48:00 PM »
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Fingers crossed that you have now eradicated the problem.
Best of luck for a more peaceful and healthy future in your tank.

Offline Sue

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #136 on: May 12, 2016, 09:15:19 PM »
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The next 'problem' is going to be deciding what to get to replace the cherry barbs. I want something a bit less active which will go with pencilfish and apistos, so preferably nothing red or yellow.......

Offline fcmf

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #137 on: May 12, 2016, 09:27:51 PM »
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Harlequin rasboras?

Offline Sue

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #138 on: May 12, 2016, 09:29:04 PM »
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They are now on my list, them or one of the similar hengel's or espei's rasboras  :)

Offline fcmf

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #139 on: May 12, 2016, 09:35:25 PM »
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Excellent.

Offline Fiona

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #140 on: May 13, 2016, 05:15:18 PM »
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I almost dreaded opening this thread. Thank goodness for the news!

Talking to the chap in the shop, he said there are 2 forms of whitespot and the 'import' is very hard to get rid of. Sounds like that's what I've had  :(

I think I may have had this too. Well done you for pulling the fish through

Offline Extreme_One

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #141 on: May 13, 2016, 06:55:43 PM »
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Glad to hear you've eradicated the whitespot Sue.  :cheers:

Offline Sue

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #142 on: May 17, 2016, 08:54:52 PM »
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There is still no sign of whitespot in the main tank and the cut on my thumb has healed enough to do a water change. So that's what I did this afternoon, and then put a filter of carbon in the tank. I'll change that a couple of times, then run some polyfilter.
I'm going to need to do a good clean on this tank as the glass, plants and decor are very dirty. I need to remove as much copper containing algae as possible, then let some regrow before I can think of replacing the nerites.


I also moved some fish.
A few weeks ago I bought some green neon tetras (Paracheirodon simulans) for the 50 litre tank. Over the last few weeks, I haven't found any baby shrimps in the water change bucket. Is this co-incidence or have the neons been eating them? So I moved all 9 neons into the 180 litre.
If they fare OK in there I'll get some more - if MA still has them in.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #143 on: May 17, 2016, 09:24:26 PM »
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Congratulations.  :cheers:
Great news that there is no sign of whitespot and that your thumb is healing.  :)

Offline Anne

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #144 on: May 17, 2016, 09:29:47 PM »
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Pleased everything is now going OK in your tank and with your finger injury. 
Hopefully you will get more baby shrimp now that the green neon tetras have been moved.  The shrimp must have been tiny, as I've had a look at the tetras and they are lovely looking fish but only small.

Offline Fiona

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #145 on: May 17, 2016, 09:54:12 PM »
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Great news Sue! :) and another fish I cant add to the shrimpery.

Offline Sue

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #146 on: May 18, 2016, 11:01:09 AM »
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The lack of baby shrimps and the green neons may be just co-incidence. I'll know for sure over the next few weeks. If I start sucking up babies again, that would convince me it was the fish. The record in the old tank water was 34, and to go from that to zero is a bit disturbing  :-\

In with the shrimps at the moment - and they were there well before the green neons - are the last remnants of shoals. 2 pygmy cories, 2 habrosus cories, 4 Boraras brigittae and 2 Boraras maculatus. There were always baby shrimps in the old water with just them in the tank.

Offline Sue

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #147 on: May 22, 2016, 12:05:54 PM »
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I AM GOING TO SCREAM





The green neons have whitespot.




There were obviously some of the bugs in the 180 litre which the rest of the fish are now immune to. So now I need to remove the carbon and start adding medication again. I've used all the Protozin and eSHa Exit so it'll have to be WS3, though I'm not sure how many doses of that I have left.

I feel like giving up on this tank  :(

Offline Fiona

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #148 on: May 22, 2016, 12:38:27 PM »
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Awwww no  :(  Im not even going to call that bad luck, it's beyond that. I'm so sorry Sue.  :(

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Whitespot then fungus
« Reply #149 on: May 22, 2016, 12:49:11 PM »
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Oh Sue, I almost can't believe that has happened.  :(

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