Tetra With Unhealed Injury - Melafix, Easylife Voogle, And ESHa 2000

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Offline Matt

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #50 on: August 27, 2017, 11:08:56 AM »
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Good news!!  :fishy1:

I really happy to hear that things seem to be progressing well  ;D

Do I read correctly that it seems to be better than ever now?   Well done you!

Fins normally repair quite quickly in my experience. I have a harlequin that got trapped in the filter a few years ago and lost most of its fins and some scales etc and you can't really tell it apart from the others now.

Have you managed to remove what fell off her from the tank? Might be an idea if you haven't already...

Still keeping everything crossed for you for a complete recovery  :))  How are things today?

Are you still going to dose the eSHa or leave concentrations as they are in the tank? I must admit I don't know if it gets 'used up' over time (presumably it must?) or how quickly this process takes place...

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Offline Littlefish

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #51 on: August 27, 2017, 11:34:51 AM »
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Glad to hear that the fungus has fallen off and that she is swimming around.
I hope that she makes a full recovery soon.  ;D

Offline fcmf

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #52 on: August 27, 2017, 11:45:06 AM »
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Thanks, @Matt and @Littlefish - keep up the good vibes.

The situation is certainly better now than it has been for the past week since the fungus started growing in the wound and seemed to grow exponentially over the course of several days (as opposed to just dropping off as it did on the previous occasion when fungus started to appear) - it seemed really "touch and go" for several days mid-week and towards the end of the week but it now seems as though definite progress is being made. Yes, the clump of fungus was up against the filter inlet and I fished it out with a net yesterday - tried to upload the pic but couldn't.

As for the wound itself, I think it may be smaller than it was and is closing over. I plan to do a water change tomorrow with the bucket of water into which the Seachem Prime was added on Fri evening but have a break from treatment for a day or two before deciding whether or not to administer a second course of the eSHa 2000 treatment (given that today is actually Day 5 of what is ordinarily a 3-day course) - I'd rather get the wound healed as much as possible before reuniting her with her tankmates. She's definitely even perkier now than she was yesterday which is a good sign - some garlic-infused brineshrimps may have helped in that respect.

I had such poor outcomes with the pygmy cories and this treatment a couple of years ago, that I was really reluctant to isolate and medicate, but I think if I hadn't done so on Wed as I did, it would have been too late. It would be good if this story had a positive outcome ultimately.

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Offline fcmf

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #53 on: August 28, 2017, 08:07:50 AM »
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My feeling is that, having dosed with eSHa 2000 on an extended dose (5 days - 2 days' standard dosage, 3 days' larger dosage due to soft <4 dGH water) that, following a break plus water change today, I ought to do another course of eSHa 2000 in an effort to heal this wound once and for all as the medication was probably focusing on addressing the fungus aspect and now needs the opportunity to address the underlying wound aspect. The fish is swimming back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, and "following" me wherever I move/sit, almost as though she is "begging" to be let back into the main tank. Thoughts - further treatment required or is it unlikely to work given the longevity of this wound (now 13 months)?

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Offline Sue

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #54 on: August 28, 2017, 09:35:32 AM »
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I would do 2 things. Another course of 2000, and do things to reduce stress on the fish. By this I mean don't turn any tank lights on (if there are any) and place objects such as pieces of cardboard or towels round the tank to limit her view of the outside world.

Hopefully, the 2000 will help heal the wound, and being in dim light will calm her a bit.

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Offline fcmf

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #55 on: August 29, 2017, 09:30:41 PM »
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Thanks - all underway.

On a separate note, I noticed some months ago that one of the male tetras had a slightly discoloured (possibly cloudy) eye which I put down to a sparring injury. I've noticed that this has worsened this week and looks almost blue. Is it worth moving him into the QT too to avail of the 2000 treatment simultaneously, or is this unlikely to make any difference? NB. All water readings remain at 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 10-20 nitrate.

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Offline Sue

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #56 on: August 29, 2017, 09:37:28 PM »
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It's hard to say. The second fish might stress the first, or it may help her settle. On balance, I would be inclined to wait until the first fish goes back on the main tank then put the second fish straight into the hospital tank. With a water first.

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Offline fcmf

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #57 on: September 01, 2017, 07:19:21 PM »
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The second course of eSHa 2000 was completed yesterday, all at the double-dosage rate. The wound may be slightly smaller ie closing in slightly from the outside but it's difficult to be certain. She had become quite "at home" in the QT in the past couple of days, once she'd sussed out the curved front on the QT and got used to that, with her tail colouring up nicely. However, I decided that she needed a break from treatment and that this might be as far as I could help her for now, so decided that it was time to return her to her tankmates in the main tank today.

I did a water change so that she spent 4 hours in 1/3 medicated water with carbon in the filter, 1/3 discarded tank water from the main tank to get her acclimatised and 1/3 new water. Following this, I did another water change of the same proportions, in order to dilute the medicated water further, then decided to move her via a jug with minimal water transfer - less likelihood of injury which may have happened during the move from main tank to QT when I noticed the base of her right pectoral fin had gone red but which thankfully is now healed - and this transition went uncharacteristically extremely smoothly. The tetras and harlies spent an hour or so in their respective shoals, then everyone started intermingling and resuming their usual positions. She's swimming a little "nose-up, tail skimming the substrate" again as she had been in the main tank - I can't really account for why this is - but her buoyancy and everything else is otherwise fine aside from the ongoing existence of the possibly-closing-in wound on her side.

The male tetra's eye doesn't look as bad as earlier in the week, so I'm going to keep everyone in the main tank for now.

Hoping the nerite snail will be alright - I've been careful to keep equipment separate but a small amount of very diluted medicated water may have transferred in when de-canting the fish to the main tank. Would a small piece of carbon in the filter be a plan or would this be in any way problematic with Seachem Prime (and plant fertiliser) in there?

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Offline Sue

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #58 on: September 01, 2017, 07:36:08 PM »
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The carbon shouldn't be a problem with Prime, but I would leave dosing the plant food while it is in there. Carbon won't adsorb the minerals in the plant food directly but Prime binds metals and the carbon may well adsorb the binding chemical-plus-mineral. The plants shouldn't come to any harm for a short period.

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Offline Littlefish

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #59 on: September 02, 2017, 09:00:22 AM »
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Keep up the good work @fcmf   :)

Offline fcmf

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #60 on: September 28, 2017, 08:50:26 PM »
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I think I may have provided an update on this a few weeks ago via the Thinkfish Daily News thread but, for the sake of keeping the thread together, just to confirm that the female tetra has been back in the main tank for almost 4 weeks now and:
* the wound has continued to make progress week by week, closing in more and more to the extent that it's now just a superficial mark / missing scales; in the past week, a 'dent' in the base of the wound near where the pelvic fin seemed to rot away has filled out back to normal and the pelvic fin has completely grown back;
* her behaviour is now 100% normal ie no slightly nose-up swimming.

The male tetra's cloudy eye has been cloudy for the past few weeks, so I'm just monitoring the situation and whether or not to remove him to medicate - it doesn't seem to be adversely affecting him in any way.



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Offline Sue

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #61 on: September 28, 2017, 08:54:51 PM »
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That is good news about the female  :)

And I agree, keeping an eye on the male is the best thing for now.

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Offline Matt

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #62 on: September 28, 2017, 09:11:45 PM »
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Pun alert!

Clean water *should* be enough to heal most healable eye conditions so eye would also just keep an eye on him

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Offline Andy The Minion

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #63 on: September 28, 2017, 10:48:06 PM »
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"Groan" how could you @Matt ?

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Offline fcmf

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #64 on: September 30, 2017, 06:02:30 PM »
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I enjoy puns.  :)

Argh - just as I thought all was well, and, in fact, I went to bed last night thinking that all seemed to be on track for the tetras reaching their 3rd birthday in a few weeks' time, it now transpires that the same tetra has somehow developed an overnight injury on her other side; I'll set up a new thread on this as I may require some assistance with / confirmation of the diagnosis.

Edited to add: video of 'healed' side (ie superficial marking only now) - #Invalid YouTube Link include https#

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Offline Littlefish

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #65 on: September 30, 2017, 06:15:47 PM »
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@fcmf sorry to hear that there is another issue with your tetra. I'm hoping is is a minor problem that will be quickly resolved. Fingers crossed.

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #66 on: December 25, 2017, 05:01:16 PM »
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As an update to this thread, the tetra's original injury has continued to heal over the course of the past few months, filling in more and more. Over the past couple of weeks, the filled-in area is actually now protruding slightly and scales are attempting to re-grow too.

Over the past couple of days, however, there are two pus-like pimples on the area. I was going to let these burst/heal of their own accord, unless anyone thinks I ought to remove her and give her an Epsom salt dip or even treat with eSHa 2000? Behaviour, appetite and colouring is in tip-top condition as always. In recent months, she does seem to spend more time nose-down than the other tetras, as though her swimbladder is slightly affected, although this seems to be at least in part due to stealing the snail's vegetable-based food and constantly on the lookout for leftover food morsels on the substrate.

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Offline fcmf

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #67 on: January 04, 2018, 08:44:11 PM »
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As mentioned elsewhere, the two pus-like pimples on the superficial wound burst/subsided of their own accord but fluff/fungus started sprouting earlier in the week. I've been treating the tetra for 3 days with eSHa 2000 - again. The fluff/fungus attached to a piece of flesh fell off while she was swimming around and I managed to catch it in a net; however, the superficial wound is partly superficial and partly deeper where the flesh came off.

Additionally, this same tetra has had buoyancy-type problems in the past 3+ months - not sinking like a lead balloon or floating up like a helium balloon or rocking side to side but instead she has been tilted nose down and seems to be working hard to stay that way, as though she might float up if she were to stop wading so frantically. I had assumed that this was on account of her liking for the snail's Snail Stixx food but the situation hasn't changed over the past 3 days since she's been in the QT, during which she's refused to eat at all.

My current dilemma is whether to return her to the main tank where I think she'll be much happier and regain her colours (and probably her appetite) or whether to given her an Epsom salt bath and see if that might address the buoyancy problems - and, if so, do this now while she's in the QT or on a future occasion after a break from meds. Views on whether or not to take this route would be much appreciated; many thanks. I'm very experienced in dealing with buoyancy problems in goldfish but my usual go-to methods (fasting or more peas / frozen food in lieu of dried food in the first instance) have not worked and I'm aware that many tropical fish are not salt-tolerant. I feel bad enough that the move into the QT earlier in the week was stressful enough through my own ineptitude in that respect, so I certainly don't want to cause any more stress for her!

Before I do anything, I'll try and dig out an article I saw somewhere on the pros and cons of Epsom salt (magnesium sulphate) .v. aquarium salt (sodium chloride) for treating fish, unless anyone else can remind me of these in the interim..?



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Offline Sue

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #68 on: January 04, 2018, 09:33:55 PM »
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Epsom salt is used to draw out fluid while sodium chloride tends to be used as a mild antiseptic.

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Offline Matt

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #69 on: January 05, 2018, 01:19:50 AM »
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I'm no expert on this at all, but I would be tempted to stick with the current treatment. It has improved things in the past for your tetras injury and I think you have previously drawn a link between its location and the swimbladder which indicates the buoyancy issues are related rather than needing treatment separately....?

That said, whilst the current treatment has improved things in the past its not fixed it... though again this of course could mean treat more strongly/for longer... oh dear, this is another confusing topic!!!  :o

Do you think the fish would start eating, given more time to get comfortable in the QT? If not I guess you will need to move it back.

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Offline Littlefish

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #70 on: January 05, 2018, 10:12:14 AM »
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I don't have any experience with this situation, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Offline fcmf

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #71 on: January 05, 2018, 07:00:42 PM »
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Thanks, all.

I decided not to treat with salt, and, after some deliberation, not to treat further beyond the existing treatment course as my gut instinct was that she'd be happier back in the main tank. I did wonder if that was a wise decision as, aside from her tail colouring up immediately, the hole looked even more raw and red than in the QT, her tankmates didn't exactly welcome her back but seemed to shun her, she seemed to be hanging nose-down quite high up in the tank as though it was more problematic than being in the shallower QT, and I noticed that somehow (perhaps in the clumsy netting events earlier in the week) that her right eye (on the opposite side of the body from the wound) looks bronze/vacant/glass-like from certain angles. However, after several hours, she does seem happier in there, showing an interest in dinner when it was put in (although I'm unsure if she actually ate any) and pootling about more, in the company of her tankmates once again. White pieces (of scale or crusting of the flesh) are floating off from the wound which was a little perturbing at first.

In a nutshell, I don't know whether this was the correct course of action, and I'm beginning to wonder if this is now a chronic condition which I'll have to keep an eye on after having hoped it was finally sorted, but, as long as no-one else is adversely affected, it probably is for the best that she's back in the main tank. I'm also prepared for the fact that it may be "the start of the end" but I'm not sure that there's anything else I can do.

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Offline fcmf

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #72 on: January 26, 2018, 09:05:24 PM »
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As a further update, the wound hasn't really healed in recent weeks. Additionally, this tetra spent the beginning of the week bobbing immediately below the water surface, as though her swimbladder was malfunctioning, and breathing very fast. I did consider isolating her yet again but, given how well coloured she was and interacting with her tankmates who came up to "visit" her, I decided against and instead dosed a tonic of some Easylife Voogle. As she had been down near the substrate and didn't seem able to move from there mid-week, I fed frozen food as she wasn't able to reach the dried food. She seems to have perked up a little although is much slimmer than she used to be (and it seems as though the other female tetra has been eating her share of food). #Invalid YouTube Link include https# Just taking each day at a time as far as she's concerned. [For anyone eagle-eyed, yes, some plants or parts of plants have died since last week's pics, some have been moved around this evening, and there's algae and a sprinkling of red root tab dust everywhere which I'll try to clean up over the weekend.]

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Offline Helen

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #73 on: January 27, 2018, 12:13:42 AM »
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I'm clearly not 'eagle eyed' because I think your plants look fine! It can take a while for plants to settle. And it can be extremely difficult to not interfere with them while they are settling.

I was having a look through the Tropica website (I need some smaller green plants to go amongst my bronze coloured crypts) and I noticed that they talk about plants in a non-plastic pot, which can be planted into the substrate, pot and all. If you continue to have issues with your planted plants (!) this might be something worth investigating.

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Offline Matt

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #74 on: January 27, 2018, 10:06:40 PM »
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Hope your tetra is recovering well @fcmf

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Offline Littlefish

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury
« Reply #75 on: January 28, 2018, 08:29:34 AM »
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Nice to see her pottering around. I hope she continues to do well.

Offline fcmf

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury - Melafix, Easylife Voogle, and eSHa 2000
« Reply #76 on: February 21, 2018, 08:26:24 AM »
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As a final update to this thread, I've just discovered that this female x-ray tetra has died overnight - she was lying dead on the surface.  :'(

In recent weeks, with a couple of doses of Easylife Voogle, the wound/ulcer in her side had been filling in very well but I was extremely aware that this could easily change and that she seemed to be prone to developing infections in it which resulted in a ~50% deep ulcer. I was also very aware that, while her behaviour, sociability, appetite, colouring, interest in the environment, etc, were all tip-top, she did have a tendency either to spend periods of time near the surface or pointing nose down beside the heater, both of which were evident intermittently this week and indeed last night when she seemed to be almost sipping from the surface although not in such a way that struck me that her demise was so imminent. At least I can console myself from the rest of her behaviour that she didn't seem to be suffering, remained her usual character to the end and that the death was hopefully untraumatic.

I'm somewhat relieved that this occurred before the new filter's scheduled arrival today, otherwise I might have been wondering whether it (eg inability to adjust to the new water flow pattern) was in some way to account for her final demise.


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Offline Sue

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury - Melafix, Easylife Voogle, and eSHa 2000
« Reply #77 on: February 21, 2018, 09:00:07 AM »
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I'm sorry to hear that. Apart form the ulcer she seemed quite healthy, and you did all you could to cure the ulcer.

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Offline Matt

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury - Melafix, Easylife Voogle, and eSHa 2000
« Reply #78 on: February 21, 2018, 10:17:34 AM »
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Sorry to hear that @fcmf

Hopefully the filter install will be a welcome distraction from last night's events.

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Offline Rustle

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury - Melafix, Easylife Voogle, and eSHa 2000
« Reply #79 on: February 21, 2018, 12:58:58 PM »
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Sorry for your loss fcmf.

Offline fcmf

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury - Melafix, Easylife Voogle, and eSHa 2000
« Reply #80 on: February 21, 2018, 07:24:19 PM »
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Thanks for the kind words, all.

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Offline Littlefish

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Re: Tetra with unhealed injury - Melafix, Easylife Voogle, and eSHa 2000
« Reply #81 on: February 21, 2018, 08:33:22 PM »
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So sorry to hear that she has passed.  :(

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