Unpredictable Tank

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Offline Lee2Gould

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Unpredictable tank
« on: July 27, 2016, 09:32:42 PM »
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Hi. I'm having a few issues with my 180l tank. I've had it for about 5 years  and really struggled with Bluegreen algae. I've tried everything to get rid of it but now prefer to do regular water changed and manually remove it. I'm quite happy doing this and all seemed well. I only had a couple of flying foxes and 7 harlequin rasboras so decided to add more to the tank, I checked in the petshop that all fish are fine with the Bluegreen algae present and have been assured by a number of people it's fine however since getting the new fish a couple have died and others don't look to good (behaviour wise). I'm not sure whether to do a number of water changes but at the same time don't want to stress the fish out more. Unsure what to do.
PS all water tests are fine: PH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate (always have been)
Any advice would be great. Many thanks.

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Harlequin Rasbora (8) - Flying Fox (2) - Bolivian Ram (2) - Ram / Butterfly Cichlid (2) - Assassin Snail (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline fcmf

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Re: Unpredictable tank
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2016, 10:43:14 PM »
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Hi Lee,

In light of all being fine beforehand, your tank not being overstocked, and your water quality being fine, it seems to me as though the deaths are unrelated to the algae. It's most likely due to the new fish - stress of their arduous journey up to arrival and during time at the LFS taking its toll on them, or, if some of your existing fish are now affected, the stress of the addition of the new fish or them bringing in disease.

Water changes tend to be beneficial if unsure what to do next. You could minimise any associated stress for the inhabitants by removing water from near the top of the tank with a jug rather than vacuuming into the substrate with a syphon.

Hope that helps (a bit).

Offline Hampalong

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Re: Unpredictable tank
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2016, 04:49:37 AM »
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Algae does not kill fish. The 'war' that some people choose to wage against it is purely because it is 'unsightly' (even though it's a natural part of nearly every aquatic ecosystem). It can clog filters in extreme cases, it can kill plants, and like anything else it can kill fish if there's a massive sudden die-off that pollutes the tank, but healthy algae is a good sign, not a bad one.

Do you bang the nitrate reagent #2 bottle before you shake it? What are your readings for nitrate and pH? Are ammonia and nitrites always zero? How long do you mix new fish for?

Offline Lee2Gould

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Re: Unpredictable tank
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2016, 06:40:27 AM »
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Thanks for the replies. I'll continue to try the water changes.
The reason I've raised the Bluegreen algae as an issue is because that's a bacteria not an algae (that's just it's name). I completely understand algae wouldn't affect fish but as far as this bacteria there have been discrepancies from what I've read.
All tests are fine. Ammonia - 0, nitrite - 0, nitrite 30.
Thanks again

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Harlequin Rasbora (8) - Flying Fox (2) - Bolivian Ram (2) - Ram / Butterfly Cichlid (2) - Assassin Snail (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline fcmf

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Re: Unpredictable tank
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2016, 07:52:04 AM »
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Thanks for the update - from a quick google search, I see that it's Cyanobacteria (a link to which oddly enough popped up on the RHS of my screen yesterday). Hopefully someone with more knowledge and experience of this will come along later and provide their advice.

Errr - I'm hoping the reading of 30 is for nitrAtes rather than nitrItes! (If not, therein lies the problem.) If for nitrAtes, then, yes, the readings are indeed all fine. There are some species of fish which are sensitive to anything above 20ppm. What is your tap water reading for nitrAtes? If really low/almost non-existent, then you might be able to get the tank level's down to 20ppm with frequent water changes.


Offline Lee2Gould

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Re: Unpredictable tank
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2016, 08:13:39 AM »
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Thanks again for your reply.  I've been using my phone to reply on here and the auto - correct did change it from Nitrate to nitrite.
The Nitrate read 30ppm so it was interesting about some fish preferring 20ppm or less.
I'll keep reading up on the Internet and post on here any findings or updates.
Cheers

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Harlequin Rasbora (8) - Flying Fox (2) - Bolivian Ram (2) - Ram / Butterfly Cichlid (2) - Assassin Snail (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Fiona

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Re: Unpredictable tank
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2016, 11:38:53 AM »
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@Lee2Gould you say the fish died, was there any sign of disease in those fish when they died and was it just the new fish?

One thing I did notice is that harlequins and flying foxes can tolerate quite hard water, up to 215ppm. The other fish in your signature need much softer water, in hard water they would become more susceptible to disease which they would then pass on to your other fish. Do you know if you have hard water? You can find the information by checking your water suppliers website

edited to add: rams are also need much lower nitrates to thrive.


Offline Lee2Gould

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Re: Unpredictable tank
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2016, 05:51:04 PM »
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It was a rasbora and a ram that died.
My water description is soft but I've added an attachment as I don't fully understand the measurements. Would be grateful if you could take a look.
Cheers

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Harlequin Rasbora (8) - Flying Fox (2) - Bolivian Ram (2) - Ram / Butterfly Cichlid (2) - Assassin Snail (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline fcmf

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Re: Unpredictable tank
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2016, 07:16:01 PM »
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The 3.325 Clark is similar to mine ie very soft water.

I've had a dig around on the forum, and I see @ColinB cites the following:
1º Clark = 0.8ºGH = 14.25ppm

So, your water hardness equates to 2.66 GH and 47.38 ppm (calcium carbonate).

There's another post from @Sue which I'll dig out which will help explain better how this equates to the fishes' requirements in terms of water hardness on Seriously Fish... just a mo... ah, found it eventually - it's apparently both of the above which are used on Seriously Fish.

NB. These two members are much better experts on this type of issue than I am so can perhaps offer further advice. :fishy1:

Offline Sue

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Re: Unpredictable tank
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2016, 07:32:55 PM »
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The figure you want from that list is Hardness Clarke at 3.325.

There are a lot of different units for hardness and fish websites use one of two - German degrees aka dH and ppm CaCO3, usually called just ppm. You'll need to convert your hardness in Clarke degrees into the other two.

3.325 deg Clarke = 2.66 German deg (or dH) and 47.4 ppm.

In other words, very soft.


On your CC list in your signature (and i realise you might not actually have those fish) the only one that might suffer is the snail, especially if you also have low pH. Soft acidic water erodes their shells.




One other figure of note is nitrate. Your water company lists it as 2.84. If your tank is at 30 ppm nitrate, that is too much; you need to bring it down. The general rule of thumb is to keep nitrate from ever getting higher than tap level plus 20 - and yours is tap level plus 27.16. And nitrate is at its highest just before a water change. If your level of 30 was several days before a water change it would have got higher than that.
Reasons for high nitrate include:
Too many fish
Feeding too much food (as left overs decompose to make ammonia which is turned into nitrate)
Water changes not often enough
Water changes not big enough
Not cleaning the substrate if it is gravel (uneaten food and fish poo trapped it in make ammonia -> nitrate)
Having live plants and using a nitrate rich fertiliser



A nitrate of 30 is too high for rams. They also prefer higher temps than other fish, and suffer if kept too cool.

Offline Lee2Gould

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Re: Unpredictable tank
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2016, 07:41:40 PM »
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Thanks all. A lot of information and tips I can take away from this.
All other fish seem ok but I'm keeping a close eye on them.
Cheers guys!

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Harlequin Rasbora (8) - Flying Fox (2) - Bolivian Ram (2) - Ram / Butterfly Cichlid (2) - Assassin Snail (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


 


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