Ripples (Store) Bad Source Of Fish?

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Offline Barney626

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Ripples (Store) Bad source of fish?
« on: August 20, 2015, 10:27:32 PM »
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Hi all,
Just wanted to ask id anyone has had experience with buying fish from Ripples (The store chain). I usually go to the bridge-mere store as it is the closest store with a decent selection of fish. However, Fish I have been buying from there seem to dye after a few weeks for no apparent reason.

No obvious signs of stress, disease or strange behavior just sudden death. Usually one at a time of various species rather than a group of them...

Water params:
Ammonia 0
nitrite 0
Nitrate Roughly 40ppm

I know the nitrate is high but that is what comes from my tap... Could this be a cause?

Unfortunately I have not been able to get fish from anywhere else to see if it's just the ripples fish.

I have a feeling its something to do with the source of ripples fish...

Thanks for any input.
 

Offline Sue

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Re: Ripples (Store) Bad source of fish?
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2015, 10:19:46 AM »
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It could be anywhere along the supply chain. The fish are caught/bred usually in some country other than the UK. They have to be shipped to the UK via an importer with a licence and delivered to a wholesaler (though I imagine that some wholesalers are also importers). They store the fish until a shop orders them, then they are shipped to the shop, where they spend their time until the customer buys them.

I know that fish do arrive in the shop dead - when I was trying to locate some more emperor tetras, the shop I went to said they'd order some in. One wholesaler could deliver in 2 days, the other in a week. I asked which she would get and she said she'd wait for the week one because they'd never had a fish die from that wholesaler while it was common for some to arrive dead from the 2 day wholesaler, and more die after arrival.

Some shops treat their fish so badly they die soon after purchase.


So what I'm saying is yes, the fish from that shop might be weak/already sick, but it could be the breeder or importer or wholesaler or shop's fault. The end result is the same for you though - fish that die.


Your nitrate shouldn't be a problem unless you are trying to keep nitrate sensitive fish - and googling the fish you want should flag up any problems in this area.


Just been looking on Maidenhead Aquatics website. The nearest one to Bridgmere is ~30km away at Mere Park  :-\

Offline Barney626

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Re: Ripples (Store) Bad source of fish?
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2015, 10:31:52 AM »
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That shop is actually only about 25mins away from me...
Might go and have a look today? Are they known for more.... reliable... fish?

Cheers

Offline Sue

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Re: Ripples (Store) Bad source of fish?
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2015, 10:49:14 AM »
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MA is one of those chains that each shop has its own manager who has some freedom about how he runs the place. Some are better run than others. But as a chain, MA has a good reputation.
I have three that I use. The nearest (about 4 or 5 miles) is the smallest, so the smallest selection of fish. I use the one about 10 miles away as that is bigger. The one at York is too far for 'daily' use but I do call in on the way home from a day trip to York.
All three stock things like neon tetras but they do vary in which of the less common species they stock. I understand that there is a list of fish they can choose from and it is up to the manager which fish on that list are in each shop.

I would make a visit and see what you think.

Offline Barney626

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Re: Ripples (Store) Bad source of fish?
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2015, 10:09:47 PM »
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Went today and picked up a few more fish, amazing choice of fish. Definitely my main fish store now, assuming these fish don't perish.

Offline fcmf

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Re: Ripples (Store) Bad source of fish?
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2015, 10:53:26 PM »
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What fish did you get today and what fish do you have already?

Offline Barney626

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Re: Ripples (Store) Bad source of fish?
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2015, 09:33:04 AM »
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Already had 4 white cloud mountain minnows, 2 celestial pearl danios and 1 cory plus a few small CRS

got another 3 celestial pearl danios, 3 more cory's and 3 nerite (Zebra) snails. 

all seem healthy this morning

Planning on a pair of bolivian rams in a few weeks if nothing dies and water quality stays good.

Offline Barney626

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Re: Ripples (Store) Bad source of fish?
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2015, 11:09:58 AM »
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Ok, just noticed one of the celestial pearl danios acting strangely.

It's got it's head pointing upwards and looks like it's tail is pulling it down and it is desperately fining upwards to stay afloat.

The others seem perfectly normal.

Water params:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate 40ish (Normal for my tank)

In another forum someone described this and they lost 4 of theirs. They said water changes helped, but my params seem fine so I'm not sure that will help me, doing it anyway.

Help? I'm hoping this is isolated to one fish rather than 'infectious'

Offline Sue

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Re: Ripples (Store) Bad source of fish?
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2015, 11:32:16 AM »
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Water changes are always good even if the test results are fine. There are other things in the water besides those we can measure and water changes remove them too. A lot of fish diseases can be helped by water changes alone.

I have found that it is quite common to lose 1 or 2 shoaling fish shortly after purchase which is why I buy 1 or 2 more than I actually want. Farm bred fish seem to be worse for this; the farms use less than perfect fish to breed from and the conditions at these farms are often less than ideal. Cpds are all farm bred as they are now virtually extinct in the wild.



When you go to get the bolivian rams, study them carefully in the shop tank. Look for any that have paired up - that is, two fish that are tolerating each other's company and chasing other fish away. Bolivian rams are very difficult to sex until their breeding tubes are showing (unlikely with the juveniles in a shop tank) and like to chose their own mates.
The other method is to buy half a dozen young rams and make sure that the shop will take four of them back once two have formed a pair. The downside is that some shops won't do this, and the ones that do won't give you all your money back.

Offline Barney626

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Re: Ripples (Store) Bad source of fish?
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2015, 11:43:14 AM »
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Half way through a water change, the 'sick' fish seems to occasionally swim horizontal so he seems to be getting better. 

Offline Barney626

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Re: Ripples (Store) Bad source of fish?
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2015, 12:24:06 PM »
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Cancel that, the fish is now lying on its side at the back corner of the tank gulping. I have a feeling it is not long for this world....

Could this happen to the other fish? is there anything I can do to prevent it?

Offline Sue

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Re: Ripples (Store) Bad source of fish?
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2015, 12:30:56 PM »
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The rest of them should be OK.
Fish have gone through a lot by the time they reach your tank and a fish that was weak to start off with won't cope with all the stress. I would just put it down to that. But you will have to get a few more before long as they need more than 4 (the 2 you already had and the 2 remaining new ones)

Make sure to keep an eye on your ammonia and nitrite for the next few days. The amount of new fish is a large proportion of the fish you already had and it could take a few days for the filter to catch up.

Offline Extreme_One

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Re: Ripples (Store) Bad source of fish?
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2015, 01:31:15 PM »
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.... Cpds are all farm bred as they are now virtually extinct in the wild....

Whilst I agree with everything else, it turns out that the story of the demise of the Celestial Pearl Danio, in the wild, was  greatly exaggerated.
I was fascinated to read the following excerpt in an article about the CPD when I was researching the species.

http://www.tfhmagazine.com/details/articles/the-celestial-pearl-danio-a-cautionary-tale.htm

Quote
Word of the CPDs discovery spread like wildfire around the world, and their popularity was enhanced by the Internet. Early in 2007, just a couple of months after word of their discovery took the hobby by storm, rumors of their demise also spread around the Internet. Rumor had it that the pool where all of the CPDs were being collected had been completely emptied of fish. International environmental organizations were lobbying governments around the world to have all trading in the CPD halted immediately. All of this happened on the Internet.

You could just hear the enemies of the aquarium hobby salivating and getting ready to jump on us. (Yes, there are enemies of the aquarium hobby out there, and they are just waiting for one screw-up on our part to attack us and prove all of their twisted innuendos as correct.) News organizations were already jumping on this rumor, blaming hobbyists for the demise of this newly described species within just a few months of its discovery.

This was the first time that the hobby would have been directly linked to the demise of a species, although it is often falsely blamed for such things. In fact, research has found that all of the fish taken for the hobby don’t make a measurable dent in wild populations. Collecting benefits local people, the habitat, and the fish being collected. Locals want to keep the fish populations strong so they have a source of income for years to come. But a lot of folks never let the facts get in the way of a good rumor, and the demise of the CPD was a goodrumor. I even fell for it myself.

However, there was something very wrong if this rumor were in fact true. Normally when something becomes scarce the price of the ones remaining goes up. However, in this case the wholesale price of the CPD did exactly the opposite; it went down considerably over a very short period of time not long after the stories of the demise of the fish began circulating.

To paraphrase Mark Twain, the rumors of the CPD’s death has been greatly exaggerated. Instead just being found in the one pond reported as drying up, it appears these fish are actually in a fairly widespread series of pools and ponds. Currently, scientists and even collectors are unsure of the extent of their range. What is clear is that the CPD is not “endangered” or “extinct.” Those words mean specific things, and should not be bandied about without a lot of research to back them up. Don’t believe everything you read on the Internet! Using standard collecting techniques and returning the plants to the ponds after collecting, along with rotating the ponds where they are harvested and farm breeding, should ensure the viability of these beauties for generations to come.

Those reporting the fish’s demise also did not take into account the incredible fecundity of these diminutive beauties. Since the adults spawn almost every day, and since the newly hatched fry head to the bottom for several days, a pond could be completely cleaned out of adults and be restocked with a breeding population in just a couple of months. Plus, the species has proven extremely easy to breed and prolific in the tanks of aquarists. If they haven’t already done so, it won’t be long before the fish farmers begin to work with this species. Since the CPD is so easy to spawn, fish farms should be able to produce them by the tens of thousands.

http://www.tfhmagazine.com/details/articles/the-celestial-pearl-danio-a-cautionary-tale.htm

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Tiger Barb (1) - Cardinal Tetra (17) - Otocinclus (1) - Agassiz's Dwarf Cichlid (2) - Ornamental Snails (50) - Assassin Snail (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: Ripples (Store) Bad source of fish?
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2015, 02:49:21 PM »
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I should keep more up to date! I knew that the original site had been ruined by collectors, but that others had been discovered - and there were stories that those other sites were being kept secret so they wouldn't be ruined as well. The article suggests fish are actually being collected from the other sites.

Offline Barney626

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Re: Ripples (Store) Bad source of fish?
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2015, 03:24:56 PM »
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I did read that article a few days ago, hence why I kind of ignored the warnings by maidenhead aquatics about only buying this species if you intend to breed...

The fish that was ill has now given up... rip

the other 4 seem fairly healthy. I will keep a close eye on them and water params.

I do now have access to 'free' RO water, would it be advisable to use that instead of my INCREDIBLY hard tap water (Obviously with re-added minerals)? Especially since I am planning on some Bolivian rams?

Or is it more bother than it is worth for a heavily planted freshwater aquarium?

Offline Sue

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Re: Ripples (Store) Bad source of fish?
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2015, 03:34:48 PM »
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You could mix RO with your tapwater, that way you wouldn't need as much, or need to add remineralisation salts. You would still need a GH/KH test set so you can work out the proportions of each to get the result you want.

Whichever way you go, change the water a bit at a time rather than all at once. After a few water changes using more and more RO, the water will be the hardness you want.
Bolivian rams are fine up to 179ppm/10 german degrees hardness. They can tolerate harder water than non-bolivian rams.

Offline Extreme_One

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Re: Ripples (Store) Bad source of fish?
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2015, 04:59:31 PM »
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I mix RO with tap water.

Not as much hassle as I feared but because of my hard water I needed to soften it in order to keep Cardinal Tetras.

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Tiger Barb (1) - Cardinal Tetra (17) - Otocinclus (1) - Agassiz's Dwarf Cichlid (2) - Ornamental Snails (50) - Assassin Snail (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


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