Nearly All Gone....

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Offline Jwc

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Nearly all gone....
« on: July 16, 2015, 06:32:13 AM »
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Hi all. Had my set up for almost a year now the last month has seen me all of a sudden loose 5 platys and 4 guppies. I've been doing extra water changes from my usual once a week and all tests for ammonia nitrites and nitrates have proved well below what they should be. All almost 0. I have no idea why they have died they just seem to go lathargic and sit in a corner then die. I want to buy more fish but I'm now concerned there must be disease and that any new fish I have will just die. Any advice would be greatly received. Thanks.

Offline Sue

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Re: Nearly all gone....
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2015, 09:27:21 AM »
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Are the neon tetras still OK?

Guppies have a poor reputation these days. If it hadn't been for the platies as well, I would have put the guppies down to just being a bad batch. But neons also have a poor reputation, though they seem to be fine. All very puzzling.

When you say the test results are all almost 0, what exactly are they? And is your nitrate 0 as well as the other two? Unless your tank is very heavily planted, zero nitrate is almost impossible, especially if it is above zero in your tap water.

Offline Jwc

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Re: Nearly all gone....
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2015, 12:44:29 PM »
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The Neons are all OK. I've got the hagen water testing kit and ammonia is about 0.1 nitrates and nitrites are both not registering. Not even a slight change in colour.

Offline Extreme_One

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Re: Nearly all gone....
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2015, 01:14:53 PM »
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Very strange to see 0 or near 0 for nitrates, unless as Sue said, the tank is heavily planted.

Even tap water should register something. Mine is approx 35ppm! But even areas where there is very little Nitrate in the tap water would show 5ppm or so.


A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Tiger Barb (1) - Cardinal Tetra (17) - Otocinclus (1) - Agassiz's Dwarf Cichlid (2) - Ornamental Snails (50) - Assassin Snail (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: Nearly all gone....
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2015, 07:46:53 PM »
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I don't know what to suggest.

Is the Hagen ammonia test one of those that doesn't actually have a colour for zero? I know there are some that only say 'below x' as the lowest reading they can give.
Has the ammonia always shown a reading, albeit a very low one, or is that 0.1 something new?

In another thread, you gave your hardness as 13.63 deg Clarke. The converts to 10.9 German deg or 194ppm. Those are the two units you find on fishkeeping sites. If it was the hardness causing problems, that hardness would affect neons more than livebearers.

But what to do for the best. The first thing I would suggest is don't get any more livebearers as those are the fish that are dying.
If you were to replace the fish you have lost, what fish would you want to get?


Offline Jwc

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Re: Nearly all gone....
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2015, 05:39:12 AM »
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Thanks for the reply. My ammonia sue has always read like that. My nitrates and nitrites are reading that lol. I've just checked and they hardly change colour at all. Is this a problem?  Two things that have got me thinking they have been not over great.  Since a changed my food two months ago but nothing that concerned me. I went from sera san flakes to frozen blood worms. I just remember thinking that I will get the flake again when the frozen has run out. The other is the media in my jewel filter. Should I have changed them by now? The shop I purchased it from said I can leave them for a year and then replace individually once a month until all have been done. Just make sure I change filter wool once and month and clean the sponge filter in tank water when do changed. Is this OK? I'm going to move the tank this week as it's in direct sunlight for most of the day. A good 12 hours anyway and then lightshow for 6 as well but this overlaps and the lights are on their own for maybe 3. I feel this may be way too much light. Also the heat issue it's so warm in that room. The temp is 28 with the heater off now.

Offline Jwc

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Re: Nearly all gone....
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2015, 07:52:47 AM »
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Also I understand the importance of removing the dead fish but take yesterday for instance. A guppy died in the morning whilst incase at work and by the time I got home the assassin snails and catfish had eaten nearly all of it. Is this a problem for water quality? Or is this fine because it's just being broken down by the other fish rather than just rotting?

Offline fcmf

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Re: Nearly all gone....
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2015, 09:25:50 AM »
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The advice re the filter sounds fine.

Can I just clarify - are you saying that you've been feeding the fish exclusively on frozen bloodworms and not on flakes for 2 months? If so, this might very well be the problem. Dried fish food such as flakes or pellets contain a range of nutrients that fish will need; this should be supplemented with other foods, to ensure a balanced diet. However, if you've only fed the fish on frozen bloodworms and nothing else for 2 months, this is a bit like a human only eating meat and no fruit & veg, carbohydrates or dairy products for several years, which will almost certainly cause health problems. 

I may have picked this up incorrectly, in which case I thought it best to check with you if that's what you meant. If it is, then I would be fairly sure that that would be the reason for the fish deaths, and therefore could easily be rectified by re-introducing flakes/pellets as a substantial part of the fish's diet.

Offline Jwc

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Re: Nearly all gone....
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2015, 09:36:01 AM »
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Yes that's correct I had a large amount in the freezer and thought I'd best use them to make room. I had best get some more flakes today I just assumed that the blood worms where just like flakes in terms of "it's food" I will get the sera san again as that was really good they seemed to like it. Unless there are any other recommendations.

Offline Extreme_One

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Re: Nearly all gone....
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2015, 09:57:48 AM »
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Frozen foods, live foods and freeze-dried foods are great, as long as it's given only a few times a week, with the majority of feeds being dried flake or pellet.

As fcmf said, dried foods have the range of nutrients needed to keep fish healthy.

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Tiger Barb (1) - Cardinal Tetra (17) - Otocinclus (1) - Agassiz's Dwarf Cichlid (2) - Ornamental Snails (50) - Assassin Snail (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: Nearly all gone....
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2015, 10:49:32 AM »
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I agree with the others. I've seen bloodworm compared to a Macdonald's burger - fine for a treat but you wouldn't want to live on them. Unfortunately fish regard bloodworm the same way children regard a burger - given the choice they'd rather eat them than nutritious food. You may have problems weaning them back on to flake. If they won't eat them, persevere. Remove the uneaten food, then feed flake again next day. Don't give them any more bloodworm until they will eat flake. Fish will not willingly starve themselves to death, they will eat the flake eventually. Then you can give them bloodworm once a week as a treat.
Fish don't have flakes in the wild but they do have access to a wide range of live food, wider than we can supply to them.

Platies especially do like veg in their diet. You could try getting a veg based flake food to mix with the standard flake, or feed peas once a week (cook, remove the skin and chop). Or a slice of courgette, blanched for a minute in some water in the microwave to make it sink.

Re the filter, the media only needs changing when the sponges fall apart or won't go back into shape after squeezing. If you have cirax, that needs changing when it starts to crumble. The filter wool does need changing regularly with the Juwel filter as the wool is first in the direction of water flow and gets blocked with debris pretty quickly. Because it is changed so regularly, and it doesn't make a very good home for bacteria, you remove only a tiny portion of your bacterial colonies when you change it. If you are using Juwel white pads, get a roll filter wool and cut that up using a Juwel pad as a template. Much cheaper.
The reason the instructions and shop say to change the media is to make money. But the shop was right in that when you do need to change the media, you should only change one bit at a time with at least a month between.

Offline Jwc

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Re: Nearly all gone....
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2015, 12:15:46 PM »
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Thanks all for your help. Quick run over to the fish store for me now...   

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