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Fish Health In My Tank

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Offline fcmf

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Fish health in my tank
« on: November 08, 2018, 07:38:17 PM »
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It would be helpful to get others' views on this.

In my main tank, I have 3 remaining male x-ray tetras from the original shoal of 6 (age 4), all 6 of the original shoal of harlequin rasboras (age 3.5), and 4 of the 8 recently purchased neon green rasboras (3 months). They just don't seem to be in optimum health, despite water testing pre- water changes (1 x 40% plus 1-2 x 10% per week) and water being consistently at 0, 0, 20 for ammonia, nitrite and nitrates. Problems are as follows:
* one x-ray tetra with cloudy / cataract-like eye which culminated in a pop-eye type situation, seemed to burst, leaving a flap of film over the eye which disappeared and left the eye seeming very flat and possibly blind, but the pop-eye situation has now recurred
* another x-ray tetra which intermittently has an injured eye, possibly through sparring with the former
* a harlequin rasbora which has been getting skinnier for many weeks now and who I haven't seen eating at all - he swims towards food and mixes in the feeding frenzy but doesn't actually eat anything, even when it falls or is put in front of or beside him and even when it's the favourite of garlic-infused brineshrimp; otherwise, his behaviour is fine albeit less active
* a harlequin rasbora which seemed to have scraped itself on something, this evolved into a hole-like ulcer not dis-similar to the female x-ray tetra who had this recurringly, then healed but looks as though it may be recurring
* one neon green rasbora with a raggedy tail (slightly torn, slightly speckly but never evolving completely into a fungus or whitespot) - this fish seems to have taken command of the tank, occupying the middle 60% width of it, with anyone in her space being chased away
* one neon green rasbora with the top portion of the caudal fin missing, and only a partial bottom portion; this looks as though it's just growing back when it disappears again
* one neon green rasbora with a non-full tail (ie the upper and lower portions of the caudal fin are pointier/thinner

The x-ray tetras' problems might be accounted for by a combination of sparring and becoming older. Reluctant though I am to admit it, the harlequins' problems seem to have coincided with the neon green rasboras' arrival, whether due to reduced swimming space in the same upper echelon of the tank and/or the greens' comparatively lively behaviour +/- one green's tendency to nip. I've witnessed a few nipping episodes and I'm trying to recall whether one of these was caused by a harlequin. Last week, I had a harlequin peck me quite strongly / with intent during the main water change, then again shortly afterwards (if it was the same one); in the past, they've been inquisitive but have never bitten, let alone with force. The greens' health situation was like this pre-move from QT to established tank but has never really improved. [In contrast, in the QT, all 4 "newer" (but of the same batch) of neon green rasboras are in optimum health, with tails all intact; they seem to get on very well, with no one fish being in command or chasing the others, and generally seem very content in their QT.] Any further thoughts for likely or potential causes? The only "anomaly" I've noticed is that KH and GH seem to have been lower than usual (KH=1, GH=3), although PH remains the same at 7.5 (water company seem to artificially increase it).

I have 3 types of treatment - medication which would require moving the fish to a hospital tank and which I haven't been using (which is currently in use as a QT, though), Melafix (aka tea-tree oil which I have been using in 3-day rather than 7-day doses as I've been a bit wary due to others having problems with it) - this seems to result in temporary improvement of the various health problems above but these recur after treatment is ceased) and Easylife Voogle (which, on the few occasions I've ever used it, seems to result in the hole-like ulcer developing an almost immediate saprolegnia-type fungus before falling off and healing starting but no other visible improvement for any of the other health problems). I also have catappa / Indian almond leaves in the tank.

Thoughts on potential explanations or solutions welcome (aside from the temptation to allow the new neon greens to inhabit the QT as a permanent home given that they're doing so well in there!). Thanks.  :)



Offline fcmf

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2018, 08:06:07 PM »
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As an update to this:
*I've moved some wood around so that the dominant neon green rasbora (large female x-ray tetra reincarnated) no longer has possession of such a large expanse of the tank
*everything else is much the same
*the x-ray tetra with the cloudy eye developed a bubble/pop-eye on top of the pop-eye, which led me to do another short/3-day course of Melafix (just complete), given that I have no QT available for treatment; from others' experiences of Melafix, and from having been dosing off-and-on for a while now, I feel a little uneasy about doing a 7-day course albeit that may nip the various problems in the bud.


Offline Sue

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2018, 08:24:35 PM »
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Melafix is not a terribly good medication. It's more like putting dettol on a cut - good to stop it getting infected but useless if the cut is already infected. I would try something a bit stronger (eHSa 2000 or Myxazin)

Offline fcmf

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2018, 09:16:40 PM »
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Thanks, @Sue, but the crux of the problem is that I'd need to dose the entire tank as I have no available QT at present, and these meds would affect / kill off the filter bacteria to the entire tank too (and possibly even make the tank uninhabitable for the nerite snails even if they were removed temporarily and put in the QT during treatment).

Perhaps a third tank and equipment is a necessity but where on earth it's going to go, I have no idea!  ???

Offline Sue

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2018, 09:35:57 PM »
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Ah, I'd forgotten about the snails.

I know that eSHa 2000 does not kill cherry shrimps because I had to treat my betta for finrot a couple of weeks ago. And it doesn't kill pest snails (they'd survive a nuclear holocaust  ::) ) or Malaysian trumpet snails, but nerites are a whole different kettle of fish. Or snails.

I don't know what to suggest. Anything that won't kill nerites probably won't kill any bugs either  :-\


As a side issue, eSHa 2000 and Myxazin don't harm the filter bacteria. It's antibiotics that do, and we can't get them in the UK without a prescription.

Offline Rustle

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2018, 05:53:35 AM »
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I am not sure if it helps in anyway but i have used esha 2000 at three quarters of a dose with assassin snails and they were fine,they wasn't very keen and climbed up the glass of the tank' but all were healthy after the treatment.

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Offline Littlefish

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2018, 06:12:48 AM »
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How about putting your nerites in a bucket with an air stone and some filter media while you medicate the tank? Would probably require water changes to be on the safe side, but better than nothing in an emergency.
Also, will be obvious to Mr FCMF that it is only a temporary arrangement, rather than a new tank.  ;)

Offline Sue

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2018, 09:28:29 AM »
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I didn't like to suggest that, knowing Mr fcmf and another tank (he's like Mr Sue). I have used the nerites in a bucket option as well. Put something over the top to stop them climbing out and if you don't have a spare heater, put the bucket in the warmest place you have. You will have to do daily water changes.
Once treatment in the tank has finished, do a big water change then water changes every day. Run a couple of batches of carbon in the filter. The water changes will remove most of the medication, and the carbon will get rid of most of the rest. Finally, run some Polyfilter http://www.arcadia-aquatic.com/product/poly-filter/ in the filter for a few days. This should remove the last of the med. Yes, it is very expensive but I always have some in the cupboard.

Then put the snails back.

Offline fcmf

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2018, 08:19:41 PM »
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Thanks, all - very helpful indeed.  :cheers:

As a side issue, eSHa 2000 and Myxazin don't harm the filter bacteria. It's antibiotics that do, and we can't get them in the UK without a prescription.
That's great news - I was convinced they did, so that's welcome news.

I didn't like to suggest that, knowing Mr fcmf and another tank (he's like Mr Sue). I have used the nerites in a bucket option as well. Put something over the top to stop them climbing out and if you don't have a spare heater, put the bucket in the warmest place you have. You will have to do daily water changes.
Once treatment in the tank has finished, do a big water change then water changes every day. Run a couple of batches of carbon in the filter. The water changes will remove most of the medication, and the carbon will get rid of most of the rest. Finally, run some Polyfilter http://www.arcadia-aquatic.com/product/poly-filter/ in the filter for a few days. This should remove the last of the med. Yes, it is very expensive but I always have some in the cupboard.
Then put the snails back.
Mr FCMF recoiled in horror at what would be involved, blurting out "you'd be better setting up a new tank purely for the snails...", then immediately retracted that comment when he saw my face transform in delight. Argh - wish I'd managed to contain myself better! He then spotted me later on with a tape measure and I've been given a stern warning not to even think about this which of course I can't help doing...



Offline Littlefish

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2018, 08:38:04 PM »
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 :rotfl:
Once a tape measure is involved it's already too late.  ;D

Offline fcmf

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2018, 03:07:03 PM »
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A second tank is unfortunately a definite no-no. I'm also not prepared to put my snails at any risk at all - I hadn't appreciated just how fond I am of them, in particular the first one I got and with whom there's a definite rapport.

The new fish have now completed 3 weeks of quarantine and I had intended for at least the full 4 weeks. Therefore, my options are:
* move them into the main tank a week early, but run the risk of doing so causing further problems in the main tank, but move out those fish with problems for medication in the QT
* wait a week and move them into the main tank as originally planned and hope that the fish in the main tank don't deteriorate during that intervening week - the situation has neither worsened nor improved, albeit the skinny harlie hasn't eaten anything for possibly a couple of months now and is getting increasingly concave to the extent that his tail is almost larger and more robust than his body (not sure he'd actually survive medication - if anything, he'd be better in a tank on his own and encouraged to eat in there but without medication)
Dilemmas, dilemmas...

Offline Matt

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2018, 06:04:55 PM »
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Personally if the fish in quaranteen look ok I would move them. There's no doubt you might regret it if something happened in the main tank, but I suspect the odds are in your favour... I rarely quaranteen fish which I appreciate is far from best practice but I trust where I get them from as I think you do also...

Offline fcmf

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2018, 09:59:45 AM »
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Thanks, Matt. I had an inkling Skinny Harley was on his last legs fins, having not eaten for 2 months maybe and looking more gaunt daily, and certainly wouldn't have survived medication if transferred to the quarantine/hospital tank along with the other fish requiring medication, and thus I delayed the quarantine > main tank transfer. True enough, this morning he was on the bottom, listing over / bent and spiralling. I had no option but to perform euthanasia.  :'(

I'll set about the tank transfer for the other fish later on today.

Offline TopCookie

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2018, 01:22:19 PM »
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He then spotted me later on with a tape measure and I've been given a stern warning not to even think about this which of course I can't help doing...

:rotfl:
Once a tape measure is involved it's already too late.  ;D



Offline fcmf

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2018, 01:38:30 PM »
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A plan is up my sleeve for this (unbeknown to Mr FCMF), but it will require a massive clear-out operation on my part which isn't do-able overnight...

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2018, 02:49:12 PM »
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So sorry to hear that you had to resort to euthanasia today for Skinny Harley @fcmf   :'(
It's never a decision that any of us want to make, though sometimes it is for the best not to prolong these situations.

Offline fcmf

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2018, 07:12:04 PM »
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Thanks, @Littlefish.

After faffing around with filter sponge to attempt to seal any potential gaps at the side of the filter in prep for the new neon greens given their expertise at getting stuck behind filters, I've now swapped some fish around - the 4 new neon greens are now in the main tank and have been accepted by their tankmates from the outset and been settling in well from within a few minutes of their move, while the double-pop-eyed x-ray tetra and the almost-no-tail neon green are in the quarantine/hospital tank with eSHa 2000. The raggedy-tailed neon green seems to have mended, so this just leaves a neon green with a white spot on its lip that I would like to medicate but he's become wise as to what I'm doing and escaped capture and so I've abandoned that for today.

Offline fcmf

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2018, 04:04:19 PM »
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Day 2 of medication.

Neon green is very active (and looks like he wants to spread his fins and be back in a bigger tank); I don't honestly have much hope that his tail will grow back but, with it being slightly back on the edges, definitely worth giving this treatment a go.

X-ray tetra is very subdued and not moving much, unlike how he was in the main tank - glad the eSHa 2000 is a short-duration treatment. He does eat but only the food that can be seen on his good-eye side, as I think he's completely blind on the bad-eye side. That eye still looks very swollen - it is sitting out from the socket with the double pop eye extending quite disconcertingly possibly 5mm from the socket.

I haven't moved the neon green with the white spot on its lip as it's less noticeable today - and he's not harassing his tankmates today... in fact, it's very harmonious in the main tank (touchwood!).

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2018, 04:07:15 PM »
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Fingers crossed things continue to progress in a positive manner with all your fish.  :)

Offline fcmf

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2018, 06:06:00 PM »
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Thanks, @Littlefish.

I have been wondering what the cause was behind Skinny Harley's lack of appetite. In the past couple of months, I've begun to notice some changes in the harlies' appearance lately - at one time, the 4 bigger ones (incl Skinny Harley) all looked identical but now it's very easy to tell the difference even among the remaining 3 bigger ones - and which I was putting down simply to the ageing process.  On potentially overthinking this today, I have also noticed that some of the harlies - big and small - have a sort of delineation between their bodies and their spine which I think is new, and most easily described like the bit around the edge of a Cornish pasty. Grateful for others' thoughts - is this a normal variation, part of the ageing process or any cause for concern? Video here (remove the # to view, and with apologies in TF Daily News for other aspects of the tank): https://#youtu.be/fWevvPEwIpY


Offline Matt

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2018, 09:13:40 PM »
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I have one very old harlie left @fcmf so I'm happy to do a compare and contrast for you but could you give me a bit more on what I need to look for? Afraid I'm not following your description at the moment...

Sounds like you are doing everything you can!...

Offline fcmf

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2018, 09:24:39 PM »
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Thanks, @Matt.

In order to better explain it, what I'm noticing is that some of the harlies' spines seem to be more defined/demarcated vs their bodies, looking rather like the bit like the sealed part on this albeit not puckered http://www.cornishpastyassociation.co.uk/about-the-pasty/make-your-own-genuine-cornish-pasty/ with the body being the filled part underneath. [I haven't eaten a Cornish pasty for 35 years but somehow what I saw reminded me of it.] It might just be as simple as those harlies are getting plumper than the others and so their spine has a comparative demarcation line, whereas the slimmer harlies don't have a demarcation line.

I've noticed a few other odd things going on but not quite enough to cause concern yet, such as what I thought was a spine looking slightly bent/malformed when viewed from above, and possibly on the same fish a bit more of a nose-up/tail-down swimming action and a slight twitch for a split second, but just wondered about this aspect in particular while I continue to monitor that all's ok. If anyone notices anything untoward in the fish from the short-clip video, please do comment; thanks.




Offline Matt

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2018, 09:34:19 PM »
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I'll have a look tomorrow evening for you when the lights are back on  :)... Remind me nearer the time if your getting concerned... it's a Friday night... I will probably forget!!

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2018, 10:01:30 PM »
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I see what you mean by "cornish pasty" @fcmf
At the begining of the clip, the fish that is closer to the left hand side of the tank, swims towards the left, then turns and swims back and forth a few times...as he turns the light shining above makes it look like a dark line just below the dorsal fin, then a lighter area as his body gets wider.
I don't have any harlies, and I don't think I've got any fish that are approaching the same age for comparison either.
The fish seem quite perky and active though.

Offline Sue

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2018, 08:52:45 AM »
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I don't have harlies, but I do have the closely related Espei's rasboras. Mine are only a couple of years old, and I have not seen anything like the appearance of your harlies. I don't know what it could be  ???

Offline fcmf

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2018, 11:57:01 AM »
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I had been looking at causes of lack of appetite which might have accounted for Skinny Harley's demise and becoming increasingly concave. Fish TB is apparently a common cause of this - I sincerely hope it's not this. However, some of the other fishes' symptoms are consistent with that  eg: the harley with the wound which developed into a hole, similar to the one on the female x-ray tetra that died earlier this year after battling it for 18 months, albeit that wound is now healing; this strange curvature-type development on the harlies; the x-ray tetra's pop-eye; the increasingly bloated female x-ray tetra which died in the summer; the MDK with the missing tail portions; the MDK with the raggedy tail albeit that seems to be mending. [NB both MDKs' symptoms were present in the QT - hmmm, and the harlies' changes only developed after the MDKs entered the main tank... I wonder :-\] I'm not sure it accounts for the recent single white spot on the lip of one of the MDKs, though. 2 of the 4 MDKs which had an very early demise died of natural causes while 2 died of fatal accidents. The 4 new MDKs so far have had no problems, either in the QT or on being moved to the main tank a couple of days ago, although I'm now wondering about whether I was wise to move them.

The links between the 2 female tetras' demise earlier this year and the current problems may be too tenuous for fish TB to have accounted for them, and I completely appreciate that theirs and even the harlies' problems may simply be accounted for by getting older (my initial assumption) but I thought it worth getting others' views. Just to reiterate that tank water quality readings are consistently 0 ammonia and nitrite, nitrates around 20/25.


Offline fcmf

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2018, 09:10:38 PM »
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I've had a good examination of the harlies today and think that, actually, 4 are just getting a bit plumper as they age and this is what causes the "Cornish pasty" look, while 2 are remaining as they were. I recall seeing harlies in a public aquarium many years ago and thinking how differently they looked from ones in shops - perhaps they have a habit of changing considerably when they're older.  On the basis of that, I think I've possibly been putting 2+2 together and making 5, then putting 5+5 together and making 12.  I'll continue to monitor the situation, of course.

Meanwhile, I notice that the photo of a MDK on Fishbase also has a bit of a missing tail, so I'm inclined to return the one in the hospital tank to the main tank tomorrow as the 3-day course of treatment completes today. As for the x-ray tetra, his eye remains the same, so I'm not entirely sure whether to extend the treatment course or not.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2018, 09:52:48 PM »
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"Middle-age spread" certainly less worrying than fish TB.
We all tend to be very concerned about the health of our fish, so thinking about the worst outcomes is quite normal.  :)

Offline fcmf

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2018, 01:38:05 PM »
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@Matt, does your elderly harlequin have what I've described?

Outcomes are never quite as anticipated.  I was certain that, following a period over the course of the morning of gradually diluting the hospital tank from its eSHa 2000 including putting carbon in the filter, the neon green rasbora was ready to move and I'd make a decision on the x-ray tetra.  Having put them both back in the main tank an hour ago or so, however, the outcome is quite the opposite from what I expected:
* the x-ray tetra, who looked very subdued in the hospital tank and I wasn't sure would survive, coloured up instantaneously and has been having a great time shoaling among everyone else in the newly formatted tank (ie minus the second filter)
* the neon green rasbora with missing tail portions, who was lively and active in the hospital tank, is quivering in nose-up, tail-down fashion and keeps getting sucked towards the filter inlets, interspersed with trying to lie down on a silk plant leaf - it wouldn't surprise me if another fatality is imminent... The only explanation I have for this is that the move between the jug and the main tank via a net with the x-ray tetra (probably all of 3 seconds in it) has somehow injured or traumatised him.  :'(

[Edited to add: NGR's fins (apart from the partial caudal fin) are each working fine, so unlikely physical damage.]

Offline Matt

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2018, 01:55:49 PM »
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Do you mean on top/just behind their head?

The neon green rasbora may well be a little shook up at the moment... I'd check again in another couple of hours :)

Offline fcmf

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2018, 02:14:43 PM »
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Do you mean on top/just behind their head?
Yes, basically the bit running along at the top of the body where the spine is - is there a Cornish pasty similarity or nothing at all?

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2018, 02:54:51 PM »
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Yes and this is absolutely and completely normal. As harlies age they get this bump :) mine is very pronounced  :cheers:

Rubbish photo below!

Offline fcmf

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2018, 03:49:30 PM »
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Yours has the hunchback/bump but doesn't seem to have the 'sealed' bit at the spine like in the case of a Cornish pasty. However, this does reassure me - thanks, Matt.
 :cheers:

Edited to add: video of x-ray tetra with pop-eye (RHS) - it's the x-ray in the centre of the video [the 'traumatised' NGR appears in the video at the start in the upper right-hand corner] https:#//youtu.be/RoefimowUKU [remove # to view]

Offline fcmf

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2018, 07:31:18 PM »
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I'm worn out...

The 'traumatised' NGR has been suffering from what appears to be a catastrophic swimbladder malfunction as a consequence of being moved from the hospital tank to the main tank and thus entirely my fault :vcross: (despite being done very easily and efficiently). He was lying upside down, entangled in the hornwort, possibly for some relief/rest between his nose-up, tail-down, mouth-to-the-surface interspersed with lying flat on his side and then belly-up as though gone before sudden very rapid breathing took place. Once I put the jug into the tank and rescued him, he got worse, lying completely on his side and with continued very rapid breathing.

Reluctantly, I got out the euthanasia containers. Once in the container used for The Deed, and while shaking the other container to ensure the clove oil was mixing well with the tank water, he suddenly positioned himself upright - whether there were still traces of clove oil (with vodka for the end-stage process) in it from a few days ago which have given him a temporary final reprieve, I don't know, but he's now back in the hospital tank, on the bottom, covered by a catappa leaf. I expect nature will take its course within a very short period of time, but I've decided it's best to give him a chance.
Edited to add: 5 minutes later, and he's sitting on the bottom of the hospital tank, in the correct position, wedged between an ornament and the tank wall.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2018, 07:48:51 PM »
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No wonder you're worn out.
I hope the little fella is still in the correct position.

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2018, 09:07:09 PM »
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RIP, Tail-less MDK/NGR  :'(  :'(  :'( .  I feel entirely responsible for this but don't know what I would have done differently in the transfer-back-to-main-tank process - both fish were moved together, yet one thrives on return and one goes into a catastrophic demise...  :vcross: :vcross: :vcross:

Please may I have a period of tranquillity / no fatalities or casualties in the tank..?

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2018, 08:31:05 AM »
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Sorry to hear about your loss @fcmf
Try not to beat yourself up over this, it may have just been his time to go.  :'(

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2018, 09:33:47 AM »
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I think you did everything you could @fcmf
Fingers crossed for more peaceful times...

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2018, 05:59:00 PM »
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Thanks, both.

Sadly, I know that the fish wouldn't have died that quickly if it had been of natural causes or even the stress of treatment, given how well he had been throughout the 3 days of treatment - if indeed it was finrot, I reckon it would have taken another few days at the very least and possibly weeks or months to succumb to that. What I think must have happened is that in the <3-second switchover via the net, even although the jug was right up directly over the tank and thus minimising the switchover time, the fish took a massive gulp of air which created a catastrophic swimbladder malfunction.

My learning from this sad experience, and perhaps helpful for others, is that a tiny amount of eSHa2000-diluted water from the jug ending up in the main tank might have been better than 1-3 seconds of no water and thus the fish potentially gulping, with this fatal outcome.

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2018, 08:33:15 PM »
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Not much of a reprieve.

One harlequin - the one which has been bobbing back and forth lately as its buoyancy has gone rather awry, with its tail lower than its body rather than the fish being completely horizontal - had an inflamed base of its right pectoral fin this morning. By mid-afternoon, I noticed the base of the pelvic fins were also inflamed. By early evening, the mouth was also affected.  See video, with apologies for debris floating past as the tank was still settling from the water change: https:#//youtu.be/P_FKm2jCVzI [remove the # to view].

I decided to do a larger-than-usual water change on the tank in an effort to mitigate this, during which I viewed all the fish from above. Currently, I have 3 fish which concern me:
* the fish in the video above
* the x-ray tetra with the pop-eye which didn't respond to treatment but is doing fine in every other way
* a harley with a very curved spine when viewed from above albeit it looks absolutely fine when viewed from the front of the tank - its spine is in a slight S shape when viewed from above, with one side of the body twisted one way and the other side twisted the other way, and this is the fish which had the injury on its side and which disappeared lately but a fleck had re-appeared in the past day or so.

I don't plan to treat the last two in the list above but am contemplating whether to treat the harley with eSHa 2000 or whether to hope the water change might be sufficient. Views welcome; thanks.

I know the harlies and x-rays are getting older but I do wonder if there's something else going on in my tank which can't be measured by standard, home-based testing kits...  ???

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2018, 09:21:01 PM »
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Update:

As lights out were due, I decided to remove him to medicate. He swam quite readily into the jug.

I realised that, on balance, with the rate of inflammation (or whatever it is), I couldn't afford to delay treatment while trying to make up my mind. He seems happy enough in the hospital tank with a half dose of medication as I prefer not to do the double dose required for my soft water all at once.

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2018, 09:28:17 PM »
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Everything crossed here @fcmf  :D

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2018, 09:15:52 PM »
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Thanks, Matt.

Third dose administered. Don't think there's any change at all. Views on whether to continue with treatment (I'm assuming it's a form of finrot?) or not would be welcome; thanks.

[Incidentally, on googling the symptoms, I discovered my own post from a couple of years ago - one of the harlies had a similar problem but it must have been short-lived albeit probably not as evident as this.]

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2018, 12:54:45 PM »
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Update: Harley looks much improved today - pelvic fins and one of the pectoral fins completely cleared up, mouth considerably better than yesterday and able to be opened and closed properly today, leaving just the original and most inflamed pectoral fin looking still inflamed but better than over the past few days. Therefore, I think I may do a half-dose of the ordinary Day 2 and Day 3 dosage (essentially, one drop) into the QT this evening and spend tomorrow afternoon/evening gradually diluting the medication before putting him back in the main tank.

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2018, 03:36:07 PM »
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Hmmm - haven't done the phosphate test for a while.  Results are 5 from both the tank and the tapwater.   ???   ???   ??? 

While quite a lot of food does drop to the bottom of the tank, I've tried to compensate for that and the snail poo by the two mini-water changes per week plus the larger water change and very thorough sand siphoning in which all decor and plants are removed, so fish food shouldn't be a contributor.


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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2018, 01:05:40 AM »
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If it is the same high reading from both tap and tank water, with phosphate, my first question is did you use liquid soap to wash your test tubes? It takes a lot of rinsing to remove the phosphate residue from detergents. And it doesn't take much residue to interfere with a test.

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2018, 09:08:05 AM »
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If it is the same high reading from both tap and tank water, with phosphate, my first question is did you use liquid soap to wash your test tubes? It takes a lot of rinsing to remove the phosphate residue from detergents. And it doesn't take much residue to interfere with a test.
Oh good grief - absolutely not! Simply lots of rinsing, then let them air dry.
I wonder if something is added to the water which creates high phosphates...  ???  [Edited to add: according to the governmental website, phosphate dosing takes place at the water treatment works here to prevent the dissolution of lead from pipework, and another governmental agency refers to soft water areas needing this whereas hard water areas' limescale does the job. That may account for it.]

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #47 on: December 01, 2018, 11:06:33 AM »
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That's interesting. I'm not sure the last time I tested my tap water for phosphate. I have soft water, with low nitrates. So if it has relatively high phosphate that would explain why I constantly struggle to get the nitrate:phosphate ratio correct.

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Re: Fish health in my tank
« Reply #48 on: December 01, 2018, 11:32:31 AM »
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Update: Harley looks much improved today - pelvic fins and one of the pectoral fins completely cleared up, mouth considerably better than yesterday and able to be opened and closed properly today, leaving just the original and most inflamed pectoral fin looking still inflamed but better than over the past few days. Therefore, I think I may do a half-dose of the ordinary Day 2 and Day 3 dosage (essentially, one drop) into the QT this evening and spend tomorrow afternoon/evening gradually diluting the medication before putting him back in the main tank.
Some good news - the harley seems to have responded to the treatment, with the pectoral fin 90% improved. I've been gradually diluting the QT and am going to transfer him back to the main tank later today, taking into account my learning from last week as per reply #38 in this thread.

Update: he has now been successfully transferred. On entry to the maintank, he started spiralling, then went upside down for several moments - felt as though my own heart had stopped and that I'd have to move him out. However, I think he was struggling to re-adjust to the main tank's filter flow, and has been fine since... phew.Video https:#//youtu.be/8dgVVX_BEAs [remove # to watch] shows his improvement but note the comment about his "paralysed" tail. This is only something that I've noticed in the past couple of months but not something which I can do much about, unfortunately. [Tank has a lot of debris floating as I did another 50% water and sand-siphoning change, just to be certain that any eSHa 2000 in the transfer process was diluted further.]

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