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Fish Antibiotics

Author Topic: Fish antibiotics  (Read 3190 times)

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Offline Ally2

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Fish antibiotics
« on: November 15, 2016, 08:29:52 PM »
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Hi
I've looked up the nearest vet that deals with fish . It's not too far I'm going to call them in the morning to ask about antibiotics . I have a few questions firstly I assume I don't have to take the fish in ? What sort of cost am I looking at ? How do you give a fish antibiotics ?
Ally

Offline Sue

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Re: Fish antibiotics
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2016, 08:36:51 PM »
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Since you will need a prescription for antibiotics it will cost whatever private vet's prescriptions cost. Then you need to add the vet's consultation fees as well. It won't be cheap. And he/she probably will want to see the fish to be able to diagnose what is wrong in case it needs something other than antibiotics.

Americans can get antibiotics over the counter. I'm not sure if they come as powders or liquids, but whichever it is they are added to the tank water.

And certain antibotics will also kill your filter bacteria. Something about gram positive and gram negative, one of them kills the filter bacteria. I'm not well up in fish antibiotics.

Offline Ally2

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Re: Fish antibiotics
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2016, 09:15:29 PM »
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Oh no
It's about a 45-1hr drive I think so taking the fish is not very practical . Also if it the vet consultation fee and antibiotics then it's going to be too expensive. The consultation fees in London are 35 up !
Let's hope this new treatment does the job . It's early days yet .
So people must set up a hospital tank to treat them as destroying the filter bacteria is not going to help !
Ally

Offline fcmf

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Re: Fish antibiotics
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2016, 08:30:14 AM »
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Oh no
It's about a 45-1hr drive I think so taking the fish is not very practical . Also if it the vet consultation fee and antibiotics then it's going to be too expensive. The consultation fees in London are 35 up !
Let's hope this new treatment does the job . It's early days yet .
So people must set up a hospital tank to treat them as destroying the filter bacteria is not going to help !
Ally

That consultation fee sounds incredibly reasonable to me in comparison with the several hundred pounds I was quoted back in 2010 albeit on a bank holiday weekend. Ultimately, primarily because I didn't think my fish was up to the stress of travelling to a vet's, I actually opted to use a specialist fish vet in the USA via justanswer.com - in fact, I used them on and off over several years while goldfish-keeping, and found them very helpful; the cost was ~25 per query. I hadn't discovered forums such as this but the problems were quite complex, unique to goldfish and probably did require the specialist vet input.

I have read elsewhere of people sending off for the medications Kanaplex and Metroplex from the USA - they take several weeks to arrive to the UK. Perhaps that is an alternative option?

Offline Ally2

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Re: Fish antibiotics
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2016, 01:25:07 PM »
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I wonder if seeing video of moonbeam would be enough . I've also hea d about Epsom salt baths with methalyne blue added . Putting the fish in for 30 mins then removing ?
What are your thoughts on this ?
Ally

Offline Sue

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Re: Fish antibiotics
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2016, 01:57:23 PM »
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Epsom salt baths are for fish with dropsy. The salts are supposed to draw the fluid out of the fish's body, though by the time a fish gets to this stage there is usually nothing that can be done.

Methylene blue is an old fashioned remedy - old fashioned in the sense that it has been around for years - which is commonly used for preventing fungus developing on fish eggs. It's not used much in tanks because not only does it dye everything blue, it also harms the bacteria colonies. But used as a bath, yes that could be done, though after the bath I'd transfer him to a second, plain dechlorinated water bath to remove the methylene blue before returning him to his tank.
Methylene blue is also much easier to find than antibiotics and doesn't have the risks associated with over use of antibiotics (antibiotic resistant 'superbugs')

Offline Ally2

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Re: Fish antibiotics
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2016, 02:29:05 PM »
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Hi
We are on the last day of his 2nd treatment . Not seeing any improvement and can't understand why not.
So called the fishy vet and he's not in until Monday . They took my details and he's going to call me Monday . I said I wasn't too keen on driving moonbeam over there . I said I have photos and video I could send . So let's see what he says Monday  . I bought a magnifying glass today to see if I can see if there are any lumps or growths . But it looks flat just discoloured red pink !
The part near his Gil is the same colour and doesn't seem to be raised . It's only on one side . The whole thing is eerie . I'm assuming that if fish don't heal after treatments antibiotics us the next step ? And do I need to take him out the tank to treat him ?
Ally

Offline Sue

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Re: Fish antibiotics
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2016, 04:46:13 PM »
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If you are prescribed antibiotics it depends on what they are. If they are the kind that kill filter bacteria you have the choice of putting the filter somewhere safe and treating the tank, or putting the fish somewhere else to treat him. Either way he'll be in a filterless container so you will need to do water changes. For meds that need dosing every day, do the water change first, then add the med. For meds that are not dosed every day, on non-dose days add enough med after the water change to replace the amount you just took out.

The filter will also need feeding if it is not in with the betta for more than 3 or 4 days.

Online Hampalong

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Re: Fish antibiotics
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2016, 06:34:01 PM »
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What's wrong with the fish? Can you post a good picture? Unless a vet has actually specialised in fish they tend not to be all that knowledgeable about them. The treatments they prescribe are dictated by profit margins and are therefore usually well ott, last resort treatments.

If you need an antibiotic, dimetronidazole is available over the counter in the form of Waterlife Octozin. No treatment will work if the cause of stress is still present (with finrot this is usually water quality). If it is finrot, and the water is good, then Myxazin would have worked.


Offline Sue

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Re: Fish antibiotics
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2016, 01:31:32 PM »
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Waterlife don't give a the ingredients on their site so I didn't know that Octozin contains dimetronidazole.

But I do know that metronidazole treats anaerobic bacteria. I was prescribed an antibiotic that didn't clear things up so a swab was taken which showed that the infection was anaerobic rather than the usual aerobic bacteria you get in skin infections. I was then prescribed metronidazole and that worked a treat  :)


And metronidazole can also be used to treat internal protozoan infections in fish.

Online Hampalong

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Re: Fish antibiotics
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2016, 10:29:24 PM »
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Metro and diMetro are basically the same thing. They have the same effect. And Octozin is totally safe for (aerobic) filtration bacteria, plants, inverts and all fish. :)

Offline Ally2

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Re: Fish antibiotics
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2016, 10:57:51 PM »
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My mind is going to explode . Ok I took apart the aquarium used baby bottle steriliser to clean it . Rinsed and rinsed it in the bath . Put back new sand bogwood , pebbles and some new plants . Kept the old sponge filter and ceramic beads in the old tank water , put them back . Why because I read my tropical fish book and I quote ...under other bacterial infections visible signs such as ulcers, blood streaks in fins , loss of scales , sluggish behaviour loss of colour , or swollen body with pine coning are only treatable with antibiotics and not guaranteed success !
The blood streaks in fins and loss of colour are the only two symptoms he has .

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Fish antibiotics
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2016, 09:14:28 AM »
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@Ally2 please don't panic. I know it's very difficult in a situation like this, but if Moonbeam is eating and behaving normally then I should think that it would be ok to wait until Monday and talk to the vet.
Obviously I'm not experienced with this sort of condition, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Moonbeam and I hope that the issues can be resolved soon.

Offline Ally2

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Re: Fish antibiotics
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2016, 04:46:04 PM »
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Thanks to all
Can I just say my water nitrite test has always been 0 . My ph 7.5-7.6 .
I do water changes weekly and Hoover the gravel . If the water looked oily on top possibly because I put too much food in . I would do a midweek water change . I'm now thinking that doing once a week water/ Hoover is not enough for my small tank . And from now on should do twice weekly . What do you think ?
As for stress moonbeam is the most chilled betta . He had a variety of 4 different types of food but still prefers the flaked crushed small of course !
If anything he would like consent one to one attention as he's very interactive and loves you sitting at the tank . He's thoroughly enjoying his new set up and has shown off coming through the hole in the wood a few times now !
Maybe he got bored with the old set up which he had for 6 months and will now be a renewed betta !
The only thing I know he doesn't like is the I phone and I pad , maybe an aversion to apple products 😩

Offline Ally2

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Re: Fish antibiotics
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2016, 12:17:27 PM »
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Hi thought you would like to know what the vet said .
From my description he's doesn't think it's finrot . He says if fish have an illness there are changes in appetite , swimming, lethargy . Moonbeam is acting completely normal . He mentioned TB for which there is no cure . He doesnt think it's worth giving him antibiotics . He said he might be having pigmentation change . Funnily enough I'm on a betta site and put photos of him on their and several people have said the same thing calling it marbling .
Im now at a loss . I've put an almond leave in his tank and have made almond leave tea which is a quicker way of adding it to the tank .
I will do daily water changes this week 25 percent . And see what happens , adding tea to the tank.
I'm now worried that if it isn't pigmentation change he's going to get ill and it will be too late !
Ally

Offline Sue

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Re: Fish antibiotics
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2016, 01:55:22 PM »
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He said he might be having pigmentation change . Funnily enough I'm on a betta site and put photos of him on their and several people have said the same thing calling it marbling .


I said that too here
Quote
The outline of his fins looks fine. They are not disintegrating in the way I'd expect with finrot. It's just the colour that looks a bit odd.
I would watch and wait for now. It might turn out that the pink is just his colouring. Bettas can and do change colour, particularly those that carry the marbling gene.


Offline fcmf

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Re: Fish antibiotics
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2016, 02:04:29 PM »
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I said that too here
Quote
The outline of his fins looks fine. They are not disintegrating in the way I'd expect with finrot. It's just the colour that looks a bit odd.
I would watch and wait for now. It might turn out that the pink is just his colouring. Bettas can and do change colour, particularly those that carry the marbling gene.

...and so did I eg in post #34 here: http://forums.thinkfish.co.uk/fish-health/fin-rot/msg30539/#msg30539

The fact that the treatment which you've tried hasn't made much difference means that I think you can put your mind at rest a little that it is unlikely to be finrot / a bacterial infection, or indeed anything else of any concern, and most likely as the vet said.

What I would urge caution with, though, is the almond leaf tea - I'm not sure exactly what that is, but I boiled Indian almond leaves in a saucepan of water, then let that water cool, and poured it into the tank. Suffice to say that the fish started behaving rather oddly - it seems that I'd overdosed them. A large water change later and the situation rectified itself. So, if Moonbeam starts to behave as though he's a bit drowsy or been on the drink, then I'd advise that all you need to do is a large water change. :)

Offline Ally2

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Re: Fish antibiotics
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2016, 02:35:29 PM »
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Hi
 :afroYes you did both say it could be colour changing . But as I'd had him 5 months I would have thought it would have done it by now . I will be interested to see what happens to kv1977 betta who has posted on here about his betta which looks like he's doing the same as mine .
Moonbeam is still swimming and eating ok so I will just keep an eyes on him .  :blank:
Ally

Offline Sue

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Re: Fish antibiotics
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2018, 09:27:35 AM »
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I know this thread is an old one but I need to make a comment on something written earlier



If you need an antibiotic, dimetronidazole is available over the counter in the form of Waterlife Octozin.
Yesterday on another forum I said that Octozin contains dimetronidazole. I was told I was wrong and that it contains trichlorfon (aka dipterex). So I emailed Waterlife and asked them. Their reply was in my inbox when I turned my laptop on this morning.

Quote
Octozin actually contains Dimetridazole this is approved for use for ornamental fish keeping by the Veterinary Medicines Directorate.  It does not contain Dimetronidazole or dipterex. 


I know the difference is only the two letters "on" but when dealing with medications we need to get the spelling 100% correct.
And google does not find the word dimetronidazole, only dimetridazole.

Sorry to be pedantic  :)

Offline fcmf

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Re: Fish antibiotics
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2018, 12:48:50 PM »
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Glad you got an answer from the definitive source ie the company themselves.
Pedantry is clearly crucial re medications.

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