Fin Rot Improving And Not Improving !

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Offline Ally2

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Fin rot improving and not improving !
« on: November 09, 2016, 09:57:25 PM »
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Ok
I've treated twice with esha 2000
I've had a good look at moonbeam and although the pinkish bits seem to have improved , looking at his long fins the edges seem to be blackish clear and there's a spilt !
What's going on ? Does it manifest in two different forms ? , I'm waiting for my myxazin to be delivered . Doing 5.5 litre water changes daily and just put carbon in today .
Almond leaf is still in there .
What should we do ? I'm worried if I leave it too long without treatment he's going to get worse .
Would it be a good idea to treat with esha again while I'm waiting for the myxazin ?
There seems to be a bit of discolouration near his gill which is worrying me now .
Ally

Offline Sue

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Re: Fin rot improving and not improving !
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2016, 10:17:07 AM »
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Is the split straight with nice clean edges, or is it jagged with ragged edges? Bettas often tear their fins which results in splits with straight edges. These heal by themselves.

Are the edges of his fins ragged as well as blackish? Black can be a sign of finrot but also part of a betta's colouring. Betta colours are quite complicated with a lot of genetics behind it. They can have a scale colour with a different colour underneath. Blue bettas often have red under colour. And the fin style butterfly has been developed where the body is one colour and the edges of the fins another. In tricolour bettas, the body and the fins next to the body are one colour, the middle of the fins are a second colour and the edges are are a third. Moonbeam is not a butterfly but he could have butterfly genes causing a black edging, if it is not finrot.

Clear edges to fins are new growth. They do colour up later.



So, now I will suggest keeping up the daily water changes and wait for the Myxazin. If the fins start to look worse, then yes, add more eSHa 2000 until the Myxazin arrives. But unless the fins do change for the worse, just water changes.

Offline Ally2

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Re: Fin rot improving and not improving !
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2016, 12:59:57 PM »
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Hi
Sue
Ok moonbeam does have black edges to his fins as part of his normal colouring , as he matured this black edging appeared . He's also red I think underneath because the long thin fins under his gills have a little red tip .
I'm more concerned that the black edges look like the colour is fading which is what happened to his dorsal fin .
There looks like a tiny tear in his larger fin ! I can't tell how f it's straight or ragged I need a magnifying glass !
The has been going on for about three weeks now , how long should he take to recover ? Is that a normal time .
Ally

Offline Sue

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Re: Fin rot improving and not improving !
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2016, 01:51:18 PM »
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It can take some time to heal.

My last betta started out as a blue/red/white marble but changed to plain mid blue quite quickly. Right from the start the edges of his fins were ragged, sometimes developing U shaped missing bits. I kept treating him for finrot; the fins would improve but get worse every time I stopped the treatment. In the end the bottle ran out and I stopped treating him for a few weeks. As I expected, the fins became ragged with a few bits missing from the edges, but then they never got any worse. He spent the rest of his life with ragged fins, dying 23 months after I got him. I just had to accept that was the way he was.

I would just keep up with the water changes for a week or two and don't add any medication unless his fins start to get a lot worse. Moonbeam might be like my last betta with permanently ragged fins that wasn't finrot.

Offline Ally2

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Re: Fin rot improving and not improving !
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2016, 07:59:47 PM »
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I've been looking back at photos and it started around oct 23rd . It's not affected his appetite , or feisty personality so he's not appearing ill as yet . I will keep going with the daily water changes , then change to every other day in a couple weeks .,
I will keep you updated .
AllY

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Fin rot improving and not improving !
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2016, 08:49:06 PM »
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Good luck.
I hope that everything is ok for both you and Moonbeam.
 :)

Offline Ally2

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Re: Fin rot improving and not improving !
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2016, 08:36:32 PM »
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Hi all
Took a very clear picture today . What do you think ?
Ally

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Fin rot improving and not improving !
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2016, 07:01:11 AM »
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I have gone through your other threads to look at older photos and Moonbeam certainly looks as if he has more colour in his fin than previously.
Fingers crossed that the colour returns to the whole fin.
I don't have any experience with this sort of thing, and my little fella has small fins because he's a plakat, so I'll leave it to the others to offer more useful comments.

Offline Sue

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Re: Fin rot improving and not improving !
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2016, 10:14:51 AM »
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The outline of his fins looks fine. They are not disintegrating in the way I'd expect with finrot. It's just the colour that looks a bit odd.
I would watch and wait for now. It might turn out that the pink is just his colouring. Bettas can and do change colour, particularly those that carry the marbling gene.

Offline Ally2

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Re: Fin rot improving and not improving !
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2016, 10:20:29 AM »
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Hi little fish
It's very weird it's like someone is painting it back in ! I thought fin rot was bits breaking off but it was like the colour was removed and now it's coming back . I've been googlng pictures of fin rot and can't find any where the fin has gone pink !
It's also returning to his body . But I see a light patch appearing in his long tail . Poor little man . I'm going to the aquariums tommorow as thinking 💭 might rescape the tank with all new gravel , wood etc when treatments over .
Ally

Offline Ally2

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Re: Fin rot improving and not improving !
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2016, 07:57:42 PM »
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Hi all
I've been looking at moonbeam and I'm concerned about it spreading to near his gill. It's only on one side but the same discolouration is right next to his gill .
I've been reading the new treatment and it says it treats red veins . Never heard of this but it sounds like what he has ?
The dosage says 2ml to 20 litres , does anyone have a bottle to check this . The other treatment was drops so this seems like a lot ? The product is waterlife myxazin.
Ally

Offline Sue

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Re: Fin rot improving and not improving !
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2016, 08:18:29 PM »
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I don't have Myxazin but I do have a bottle of Protozin with a tiny bit left in it, and that says 2 ml per 20 litres. It would appear that this is their standard dosing rate.

Don't forget to remove any carbon.

Offline Ally2

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Re: Fin rot improving and not improving !
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2016, 12:55:29 PM »
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Hi
I've started the new treatment which is for five days so up to Saturday . After treatment is finished .
I'm thinking now to totally clean out the tank and clean it then rescape . What would you advise I clean tank with ? White wine vinegar or baby steriliser tablets ?
News on snail I've moved him to a big green glass vase put a new plant in, and stuck it on the window sil . He's moving about now so maybe there is some Algae on the leaves . Ally

Offline Sue

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Re: Fin rot improving and not improving !
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2016, 01:11:53 PM »
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I have used baby bottle sterilising solution to clean things with, made up as per the instructions.

Do be aware that if you bleach the tank you will kill all the 'filter' bacteria living in the biofilm on the glass. And changing substrate and decor will also remove bacteria-containing biofilm. You may find that you have an ammonia spike, then a nitrite spike after all the cleaning/renovating.

Offline Ally2

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Re: Fin rot improving and not improving !
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2016, 08:35:37 PM »
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Hi
Yes I'm concerned about killing the bacteria . I've cleaned the glass with a scourer the other day . What if I keep the large sponge and ceramic beads in the old tank water while I, cleaning then return them ? Is that enough to help . Is the tank going to need recycling or is keeping the above enough ?
Ally

Offline Sue

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Re: Fin rot improving and not improving !
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2016, 08:39:51 PM »
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You won't lose the bacteria in the filter provided you don't bleach the media. Just keep them somewhere safe for the duration of cleaning. If you get an ammonia spike it won't last long, the bacteria in the filter media will soon make up the numbers. I just wanted to you to be aware a spike might happen so you'd know to keep an eye on ammonia and nitrite and be prepared to do a water changes if you were to get spikes.

Offline Ally2

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Re: Fin rot improving and not improving !
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2016, 09:19:23 PM »
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Dear Sue
Is cleaning the tank with mild bleach going to help with killing off the bacteria that's causing the fin rot ?
Ally

Offline Sue

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Re: Fin rot improving and not improving !
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2016, 09:42:24 AM »
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Not really. Those bacteria live in the water and on fish. Even if you bleached/replaced everything in the tank the fish would still have water on it while you moved it out of the tank, and that would be put back into the tank afterwards.

Offline Ally2

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Re: Fin rot improving and not improving !
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2016, 08:49:43 PM »
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Hi
I'm on day 4 of using the waterlife and am not really seeing any improvement . Should I do a small water change now after 4 days ? Or am I going to weaken the solution ? I've still got another two days treatment to take me up to the 5th day .
I think the waterlife is for bacteria ? And the esha for fungus ? Is that correct ?
Ally

Offline Sue

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Re: Fin rot improving and not improving !
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2016, 08:59:27 AM »
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If you do a water change, either do it first then add the medication or on a non-dose day add enough medication to replace the amount in the water you took out.

Most cases of what we call fungus are actually caused by the same bacterium that causes finrot, columnaris. Though there is also a type of fungus, saprolegnia, which can affect fish.

eSHa 2000 treats "Fungus, finrot & bacteria" and Myxazin treats "Ulcers, Fin-Rot, Body Rot and other bacterial related diseases"
They both treat bacterial infections. The main difference is that eSHa also treats fungus while Myxazin doesn't.

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