Author Topic: Elderly fish (Read 12704 times) 93 replies

fcmf · « **Reply #40 on:** March 09, 2020, 10:05:56 AM »

The latest update is that Bendy Harley is deteriorating - twitching to the left and plunging more frequently. The internal part of his left gill seems slightly inflamed if viewed directly from behind (not from the side), whether secondary to whatever the cause of the twitching-to-the-left is or whether only becoming apparent now - but I have been keeping an extremely watchful eye out for anything. Any thoughts from what I've described? Gill flukes? Some sort of parasite? The outlook doesn't seem at all good but I feel I need to intervene to reduce what seems to be some form of irritation/aggravation (although I think he'll succumb whether I treat or not). https:///youtu.be/aeeBW31kzDA

As for Pop-eyed X-ray, I was considering treatment but feel that he could continue to live with this for a bit longer - and I'd be concerned that the very act of medicating an elderly fish might directly cause his demise (a greater likelihood than any potential benefit of treatment).

Has anyone ever medicated elderly fish with success? Harlequin rasbora's 5th birthday would be in May; x-ray tetra was 5 back in Oct.

[Edited to add: Having reviewed the situation since, I'm actually beginning to think that poor Bendy Harley needs a different type of intervention...]

[Edited again to add: Been to LFS - very helpful to chat the whole situation through with them and importantly the context which they totally grasped. Now have a clearer plan which I definitely think is the right one.]

Matt · « **Reply #41 on:** March 10, 2020, 02:14:57 AM »

What’s the plan @fcmf ?

fcmf · « **Reply #42 on:** March 10, 2020, 04:30:44 AM »

Quote from: Matt on March 10, 2020, 02:14:57 AM

What’s the plan @fcmf ?

Given their age and condition, the duration of general decline, and unlikelihood of surviving treatment (quite aside from its likely ineffectiveness), the more humane approach under the circumstances would be as was required on 6 March evening. I think this will be required fairly imminently for Bendy Harley, with Bent-Up-Tail X-ray fairly soon after that and then Pop-eyed X-ray some time later (depending on whether gradual decline or sudden further deterioration). I felt somewhat relieved to hear this and consequently realised that it chimed with my gut feeling which I hadn't been aware of.

Updated to add (10 Mar): I set up the hospital tank, not with any intention of medicating, but purely to see if a reduced water level and a very gentle-flow filter might be more comfortable for Bent-Up-Tail X-ray and Bendy Harley respectively. They "volunteered" themselves into the jug so the transfer was easy. It actually transpired that, as Bent-Up-Tail X-ray is not floating like a helium balloon but instead simply rocking jerkily to keep his tail down and maintain himself horizontal, that this made no difference to him. Additionally, it transpired that it made absolutely no difference to Bendy Harley, and my original/recent concerns that the outflow of the main tank's corner filter was too strong and in some way contributing to the harlequins' demise were unfounded - it seems that they had/have simply become too weak to cope with even the gentlest outflow. (The fact that Wee Harley and the young cardinals are not in any way perturbed by the main tank's filter outflow backs up this theory of the outflow being ok - it can be adjusted from 3.33-7.77 turnover per hour and I've tended to have it midway or less.) Therefore, on the basis of my testing, I have since mvoed both fish back into the main tank to be with their tankmates - thankfully, they seemed unfazed by the whole process.

fcmf · « **Reply #43 on:** March 11, 2020, 05:13:57 PM »

What a day this has been so far...
Bendy Harley's strange jerking movements to the left continue, flipping onto his side momentarily and intermittently. As there remain periods of respite when he rests reasonably normally near the surface, almost-but-not-quite drinking from the surface, I've been reluctant to intervene in the aforementioned manner. However, when I opened the tank lid, he zoomed onto the top of the flourishing plant and lay there almost as though he was voluntarily giving himself up to be removed. When I shut the lid, he remained there, watching me throughout the stalks/leaves. He seems to have a more adverse reaction when I'm near the tank than when I observe from afar.
Anyhow, I felt like he was willing me to end his potential suffering - as though he was ready for it (but I wasn't). I took some time to pluck up the courage to do so, by which time I saw him acting somewhat more normally again. In a semi-impulsive moment, I decided to try one last option - set up the QT, put him and both x-rays in it, and then added some API Melafix. I completely appreciate that folk don't rate this highly but felt that a mild intervention of some sort would be less invasive than other medication. There has been no adverse reaction on anyone's part and Bendy Harley may even have improved slightly - calmer, resting more, less frequent episodes of moving jerkily and catapulting.
They'd been in that for several hours when I witnessed Bent-Up Tail X-ray take a bite at Bendy Harley's tail followed by two other bites. I knew I had to separate them, and so decided to put that x-ray back in the main tank, leaving Pop-eyed X-ray and Bendy Harley in the QT - one hovers at the bottom, the other at the top.
Dear knows what the rest of the afternoon and evening has in store...

jaypeecee · « **Reply #44 on:** March 11, 2020, 07:09:53 PM »

Hi @fcmf

It makes me feel very uncomfortable reading what is happening to your beloved fish. Even the names such as 'Bendy Harley'and 'Pop-eyed X-ray' give me the Heebie-jeebies!

JPC

fcmf · « **Reply #45 on:** March 11, 2020, 07:39:14 PM »

Apologies - edited to incorporate correct links:

A video of him is at https:///youtu.be/aeeBW31kzDA; sometimes he's like that, and, at other times, he's "resting" like at the very start of
https:///youtu.be/WvvQIBleQqA before he falls. (He did look like this more frequently https:///youtu.be/nKO95EzMOTQ last week - this video was taken a mere couple of hours before Blind Tetra at the front of the tank died - but has deteriorated since then). Difficult to judge but, in the main tank, he probably gets spells of about 20 secs of resting, followed by a similar duration of jerkily moving / tumbling, repeatedly. He's doing slightly better in the QT. On this basis, am I being cruel to keep him alive by trying to view the presence of some positive aspects as a reason not to euthanase?

I'm not considering the above yet for Bent-Up-Tail X-ray Tetra https:///youtu.be/D_oe426d0sk (with apologies for TV on in background and scratches on tank from algae magnet) - despite his disability, he was ravenous for chopped pea this evening. Nor am I considering it for Pop-Eyed X-ray Tetra (photo at end of page 4) - although he spends most of his time hovering above the bottom of the tank, to me it seems more of a disfigurement and something that Blind Tetra lived with for a considerable time before he ultimately became blind and more recently lost his buoyancy. Having said that, I acknowledge that either could deteriorate suddenly.

I just don't think I'm "cut out" for this end-of-life side of fishkeeping and decisions like this... Suffice to say that I certainly won't be getting any more fish or pets!!!

Littlefish · « **Reply #46 on:** March 11, 2020, 08:50:56 PM »

Sorry I haven't been around for a while @fcmf and that your blind tetra has passed.

I don't feel as if I'm in any position to comment on any course of action associated with elderly fish at the moment.

Unfortunately my last female zebra danio passed very quickly over the weekend. She had been heading towards her 5th birthday, and although was a bit curved, seemed to be feeding well, but declined rapidly. She was the last fish of the very first group I bought.

fcmf · « **Reply #47 on:** March 11, 2020, 09:00:58 PM »

Aw, very sorry to read about your zebra danio - you mentioned just recently about the emotion connected with losing the last of a shoal and particularly of the very first group, so we're in very similar circumstances and therefore I totally understand how extra difficult that is.

fcmf · « **Reply #48 on:** March 13, 2020, 03:43:35 PM »

As an update, both Pop-eyed X-ray and Bendy Harley seem content in the QT, essentially resting. I dosed API Melafix a couple of days ago, then again today - I'm not entirely sure why I'm dosing it as I'm not expecting it to achieve anything much, but it's certainly had no adverse effects, and Bendy Harley in particular seems to be doing better in that tank. Neither seem to have eaten, though, and ultimately Bendy Harley needs to as he's very skinny. I can see this tank becoming a palliative/elderly fish care home... Mr FCMF will be horrified at the thought of a second tank as a long-term feature, though.

Edited to add: 3rd dose API Melafix added 15/03/20 - think I'll leave it at that as not sure Bendy Harley in particular would be able to tolerate more than that. Have been putting Hikari First Bites (food for fish fry) in the tank in the hope that, even if their appetites are suppressed, they may ingest some nutrients.

Littlefish · « **Reply #49 on:** March 13, 2020, 07:37:54 PM »

Glad to hear that they are comfortable in the QT.

fcmf · « **Reply #50 on:** March 19, 2020, 01:53:30 PM »

As a further update, it looks as though the QT is going to become a long-term feature on the table - it seems the best option for Pop-eyed X-ray and Bendy Harley (certainly for Bendy Harley, and Pop-eyed X-ray gives him company and they're getting on well, but Pop-eyed X-ray would probably be equally fine in the main tank). With no visitors for the foreseeable future, this might not be as problematic as it would otherwise be. I may put some substrate in and try to make it a bit more homely for them.

Bent-Up-Tail X-ray is struggling increasingly. Theoretically, I ought to put him in the QT too - but not after his attempts to bite Bendy Harley's tail. At this point, I'm toying with the idea of getting an additional plastic tank and heater specifically for him (I already have a spare filter) but no idea where to put it as no space! @Littlefish - you've infected me with MTS!

Updated 20/03/2020 (early aft'n) to add:
Due to struggling so much, Bent-Up Tail X-ray got moved to the QT as an experiment but, immediately, Bendy Harley starting pushing him (as opposed to v.v.), then both got cascaded around the tank in the (gentle) current. About 5 minutes later, Bent-Up Tail X-ray was floating upside down, unable to battle the current. Mr FCMF and I thought his time was up as he couldn't rectify himself in the jug and his tail almost seemed bent to the extent of being paralysed/broken. Out came the E equipment. However, I thought I'd give him one last opportunity in the main tank and, since then, he's been much more settled - tail is right up at the water surface, and he's learned how to maintain himself upright and just travel around with the current, much more settled than battling to maintain buoyancy.

fcmf · « **Reply #51 on:** March 20, 2020, 08:24:20 PM »

Sadly, Bent-Up Tail X-ray has died. He would have died within the next hour without a doubt, but had absolutely no control over his buoyancy or tail and was hanging from the water surface at all angles and struggling, so I intervened to spare him any more suffering (and inquisitiveness on the part of the others which had just progressed from nosiness from a distance to active prodding up close). Two videos being attached, both from only 90 mins ago: one where he was hanging near the water surface and doing ok-ish https:///youtu.be/ZDQhwn-vjc4, and one where he was struggling https:///youtu.be/lUQaasZUyFw - the latter progressed increasingly to become 'permanent', leaving no option when he started hanging, nose down. He had become very dark grey and ragged in the past couple of days too, and his tail was flopping as though broken/paralysed from all the effort to maintain buoyancy.

A full life, well-lived, Bent-Up Tail X-ray. RIP.

Matt · « **Reply #52 on:** March 21, 2020, 06:16:03 AM »

Sorry to hear this @fcmf but a good life well lived as you say...

Littlefish · « **Reply #53 on:** March 21, 2020, 08:31:22 AM »

Sorry for your loss @fcmf though bent-up-tail x-ray had a good and comfortable life with you.

Sue · « **Reply #54 on:** March 21, 2020, 10:18:04 AM »

I'm sorry to hear that as well. He had lived a good and long life with you.

fcmf · « **Reply #55 on:** March 21, 2020, 12:49:32 PM »

Thanks, all.

The main tank is looking very bare now - just 5 sedate cardinals, Wee Harley and Wee Greenie (the lone neon green rasbora). The quarantine/hospital tank has Bendy Harley and Pop-eyed X-ray in it. If circumstances were different, I'd be adding a shoal of ember tetras (or deep golden gems, as I think @Matt called them) to the gang, but so be it. On a positive note, the main tank is 100% live plants and 0% silk plants!

Matt · « **Reply #56 on:** March 21, 2020, 12:58:44 PM »

Congrats on the live plant success. I fully expect you to be using the quarantine as a holding tank in the not too distant future whilst you aquascape your main tank!!

fcmf · « **Reply #57 on:** March 21, 2020, 03:46:09 PM »

Here's a photo. Photos always make the tank seem more sparsely planted and the substrate more prevalent than is actually the case. For now, the plan is to keep the plants alive, hence their positioning (clearly using 'social distancing' principles - maybe I'll name it The Social Distancing Principles of Aquascaping)

.

Lynne W · « **Reply #58 on:** March 21, 2020, 05:49:06 PM »

hiya @fcmf sorry to hear about your we guy. Love to see you plants doing well

fcmf · « **Reply #59 on:** March 28, 2020, 01:21:45 PM »

I have some unexpectedly good news to report.
As you'll know from this thread, I have two elderly fish in the 'care home' tank - Pop-eyed X-ray (poor quality photo attached from 7 March) and Bendy Harley. This was initially a short-term measure as I didn't expect either to survive - I thought Bendy Harley would succumb imminently and that what seemed like a growth under Pop-eyed X-ray's eye to take over and ultimately cause his demise.
Bendy Harley is still the same (strange jerking-to-the-left swimming technique and then tumbling) but, being in a quieter location with fewer distractions to investigate, he rests in one place for much of the time rather than repeatedly attempting to swim with his strange technique.
Pop-eyed X-ray's eye has improved over the course of the past week, however! Not only is it much less protruding than it was - the eyes weren't parallel, it looked as though there was a growth in his head under the eye, and he kept investigating his own reflection in the glass. He looked like an aquatic alien. So, although the socket is still protruding, the eye itself doesn't look like a large glass balloon about to burst, the eyes are parallel again and more-or-less pointing in the same direction rather than one looking sideways and one looking upwards, and he's stopped investigating his reflection. Whether this improvement will last or improve further, I don't know. The only explanations can be the short (3-day) course of API Melafix I'd dosed on alternate days, a subsequent prophylactic dose of Easylife Voogle, or time - I don't honestly think this would have occurred without one or both of the former two, though.

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Elderly Fish

Elderly Fish

Author Topic: Elderly fish (Read 12704 times) 93 replies

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