Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => Fish Health => Topic started by: Barney626 on September 07, 2015, 07:28:52 AM
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Hi guys,
I have had this particular CPD for a few weeks now. It was always a bit thin but it seems to just be getting thinner as it grows. It's fins are also never extended, I wouldn't say they are clamped. Just not fully extended...
Also, it seems to hang out at the surface and it's gills look like they are working overtime while it sits at a strange angle (slightly tilted with its head towards the surface).
Is this a disease or something? or just genetic? Have a look at the picture:
(http://puu.sh/k2KCl/a4b1d13e72.jpg)
I do have 4 other white cloud mountain minnows which do chase it sometimes bit I don't see any injuries or fin nipping although the CPD's don't come to the surface for food like the WCMM. There is one other CPD in a tank, a relatively new Juvenile which seems to be doing well. I am planning on getting more, but as most of them die when I get them I am wondering whether to not bother with this species?
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I don't think there's a problem with the breed, I know of a few people that keep them locally without problems.
I have six in my main tank and six in quarantine and mine seem fine so far.
As you're experiencing high mortality I wonder if the breeder your stock comes from isn't the best.
Unless new breed stock is introduced occasionally interbreeding will weaken the species.
Maybe, if you want to continue with the species, find another supplier?
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Pic is very good and therefore very helpful, so well done for that. I would say that that does look like some form of disease although don't have the expertise to know what. The gill area looks inflamed and underside looks emaciated as far as the pectoral fins while the caudal fin in particular looks clamped (although I'm not familiar with CPDs). If that were my fish, I'd be inclined to try some form of treatment, but I'd wait until someone with more expertise such as Sue offers more specific advice.
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I'm not 100% sure it is a disease. The gills could be looking red because the body immediately behind them is so shrunken that the gills are more exposed than usual.
When I got my albino cherry barbs, a lot of the fish in the tank were deformed a bit like that. I put it down to them being very inbred to develop the albino line - and the breeders using any fish to breed from not just the healthiest ones.
I agree with Extreme, if you want to get more use a different shop. And not just a different branch of the same shop as they will all use the same supplier.
If it is a disease, you could try treating it if you have a quarantine tank, or even just a tub. eSHa 2000 is the best med for when you don't know what is actually wrong.
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Hi, thanks for the replies.
I didn't expect it to be a disease as it has been like this for a while, if not since I bought it.
The shop this one was bought from does seem to have a poor supplier as other fish I get from their are often ill or deformed. I have recently switched to a newer supplier (Maidenhead Aquatics) which seem to be a much better source of fish.
I have just tried putting a small flake of food next to the 'ill' fish (which is now floating just below the surface) and it completely ignored it... So I am unsure what is going on...
The other CPD I currently have is from the new supplier and looks much healthier and swims around a lot. I did get 3 from the new supplier but one died soon after transport (I assume from stress) And another has vanished meritoriously. Whether it died under some plants or the minnows which seem to love chasing the smaller fish about got a bit too excited I am unsure...
Looking to the future, I have been telling myself I will get a pair of Bolivian rams soon, but never felt it was the right time. Now that my tank seems to have settled I am considering getting some more fish.
I am looking at getting some more CPD from the new supplier to see if, with higher numbers, the Survival rate will increase. I am also considering some otocinclus as I now have a fairly substantial growth of algea on plant leaves and stones, would they clean it up? And finally, a pair of rams.
I am unsure which to get first and what order to put them in....
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If you want more cpds, get them next. Then the rams. Then the otos. Don't forget you'll need a few otos as they are shoaling fish.
Rams aren't among the worst territorial fish but it is always worth getting mid water shoaling fish before any territorial fish so they regard the other fish as part of the scenery rather than invaders in their territory.
Otos do need a mature tank which is why I would leave them till last. When you get them, try to buy fish that have been in the shop a couple of weeks so the weak ones will already have died, and choose individuals with rounded bellies as they are eating well.
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I am unsure which to get first and what order to put them in....
I'm becoming convinced that shoaling fish should be kept in larger shoals than the minimum recommended.
My Cardinals are in a shoal of twelve now and I've never seen a shoal looking as fine, bold in nature and bold in color.
My CPDs, in the main tank, are nicely coloured too and growing in confidence. The six in the QT tank are pale and shy but, I'm convinced, all twelve will flourish when they're in a combined shoal.
I'm rambling, so I'm not sure what my point is now though ... lol ... Perhaps I'm trying to convince you to build up your shoal of CPD's, before you add any other species, to give them more confidence. :isay:
FWIW I'm considering getting some Otto's in future. :cheers:
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I agree. Apart from a couple of species in less than perfect numbers due to them being the last ones left, I have more than the recommended numbers of shoaling fish.
(Well, I would have more than 4 habrosus cories if I could find somewhere that had them :-\ )
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Ok, so I am planning on adding more CPD's this weekend. I can buy them in 3's so should I just add three, six, nine?
Thanks.
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You need to have at least six. Since you have just one and can buy them in threes, get six. Or nine ;)
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You need to have at least six. Since you have just one and can buy them in threes, get six. Or nine ;)
Or twelve ... Oh no then you'll have thirteen! Get 15 then! ;) :rotfl:
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I am very tempted to get 9 but I am worried either the shop wont actually have 9 left, or I will overstock on them...
My tank is 98L and has 4 cory's, 4 minnows and that other CPD in it. With plans for a pair of rams...
Would 10 CPD's be too many? The tank is pretty well planted so the CPD's will have a place to hide...
(http://puu.sh/k4oZY/8758459220.jpg)
(http://puu.sh/k4p1n/fd2b37c4ee.jpg)
I am thinking of pulling out the front, middle plants (Lighter green) as they have grown VERY fast and are actually spawns of the two original ones I had which are planted either side... they have taken over the floor of the tank really...
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Being small and torpedo shaped they add little to the bioload. 10 instead of 7 will be fine.
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That's a lovely looking tank. :cheers:
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Good photos nice tank, I can even see your WCMMs, whenever I try to take a tank view I just get blurs where the fish are.
I have similar plants at the front of my tank and I am always removing plantlets which are attached by runners to the parent plant. Otherwise they would take over the front of the tank and the cories would have nowhere to dig.
Anne
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Hi again, Will probably pull out the offspring of those plants and plant them into another tank.
As for the 'ill' CPD, it is now refusing to eat flakes, haven't tried anything else but I dont think the type of food is an issue.
I don't know if I can do anything to help it? it is just hovering in one spot just under the surface still...
I think it might end up starving itself...
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Have you tried live food? Daphnia might be worth trying?
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I will try some Frozen 'live' food tonight, hopefully that will work...
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Tried frozen food, still ignores it...
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If a fish ignores frozen live food, it is not good. I'm afraid you'll have to prepare yourself that the fish won't make it :(
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Indeed, it doesn't look good. :(
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The 'ill' CPD has now disappeared and is not residing in its usual spot at the surface. I assume it is now acting as fertilizer.
I just hope it was due to a bad batch rather than disease or the 9 new CPD's I am getting on Sunday wont last very long...
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Sorry to hear the little CPD didn't make it.
Don't you quarantine new fish before adding to the main tank?
http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/article/isolation-hospital-or-quarantine-fishtanks-for-your-fish
I set up a 20L QT tank for about £40.
It's packed away dry when not needed and the filter sits in my main tank adding extra flow for plant nutrients until it's needed, so the bacteria remains healthy.
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Well in a bizarre turn of fate, I have just returned home from a 2 day trip to find the previously Dead CPD swimming around perfectly normally... Still a bit thin but now swimming around in the plants rather than at the surface.
How strange...
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Strange indeed but good news nonetheless. Hope you can get him/her feeding? :cheers:
What sex is it BTW ?
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Difficult to tell, I think it is a male.
After observing it for a bit longer it still seems to prefer to stay near the surface, but is more willing to go deeper when a finger appears near it, whereas before it would just ignore it.
Still seems to be uninterested in food dropped in. I can only assume it is surviving off scraps at the bottom of the tank... Possibly due to the competition from the 4 minnows which regularly come to the surface for food.
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I guess a poorly male could look like a female so I can understand why it would be difficult to sex.
Do you have a small tank you can set up as a quarantine tank?
I wonder if you could transfer sick CPD into a QT tank and add Liquifry No 1 to see if it might start eating infusoria to begin to build up an appetite for bigger things.
I know it sounds a bit odd but it must get hungry, perhaps it's just a case of trying to find something it will eat to get on the road to recovery.
I'm just thinking that maybe the fishy equivalent of baby food will kickstart something.
Sorry if it sounds like a stupid idea.
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I do have an unused tank but it doesn't have a heater or filter, a combination of which will cost a lot more than this single fish. And as this isn't a particularly prized fish as it was always slightly weaker I don't think it would be worth the effort.
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I do have an unused tank but it doesn't have a heater or filter, a combination of which will cost a lot more than this single fish. And as this isn't a particularly prized fish as it was always slightly weaker I don't think it would be worth the effort.
I understand completely.
Something to consider for the future:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00CNVDMUE <- cheap 50w heater @ £7.95 + Free UK delivery
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00A4AZH3Q <- cheap micro filter @ £13.94 + Free UK delivery
These are the parts I use in my QT tank for quarantining new fish for a fortnight before introducing the new fish to the main tank.
Apart from that, it's ready to be set up as a hospital tank too if needed.
I just keep the micro filter running in the main tank permanently, in addition to the main filter, at the opposite end to aid water flow, so that it has a healthy bacterial colony in readiness for when I need it.
The rest of the kit, the tank, the heater, the half plant pot and the fake plants are stored dry until I need them.
Just a suggestion, as you already have a tank, an extra £22 will give you the quarantine tank / hospital tank that might come in handy in future.
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Unfortunately, when I returned from getting 7 new CPD's the 'ill' CPD was lying in moss not moving, I netted it and it was still not moving. So I ice+clove oiled it to make sure. oh well, the new CPD's seem to be much more active now they are in a group of 8...
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So I ice+clove oiled it to make sure.
Just for future reference :) in such a scenario, from what I've read, I think the ice is probably best left out. Hopefully the remainder of your CPDs will get on swimmingly, though. :fishy1:
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I have a CPD in my tank that looks just like your poorly one, I've had it for months now and its grown larger but has stayed that same weird concave shape, other then that its happy as Larry. If the guy in my MA hadn't told me it's supposedly wild caught, I'd be inclined to think it was deformed through in-breeding... would the suppliers lie to MA?
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I wouldn't be surprised if a shop's supplier didn't know and made something up :-\ But wild caught fish aren't immune from deformities, they are just less likely to be caused by inbreeding. There was just something about the photo of Barney's cpd that said to me developmental problems rather than sickness.
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I'll try a get a photo of my one. They could be twins!