Corydoras Pale, Fin Loss, Loss Of Balance

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Offline chester1o66

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corydoras pale, fin loss, loss of balance
« on: March 02, 2013, 08:07:03 PM »
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Hi there,
I havent been here in quite a while! I now have 16 albino corydoras of various ages.
I took them on, to foster them 8 years ago, and still have them! Ive finally found a new home for them which might be in less than a weeks time.
I recently moved house (4months ago) and I could see that one cory looked a little unwell. I had treated the tank with internal bacteria meds. I moved the fish successfully, however, I have now lost 2 fish in the last 3 weeks and have another fish looking very pale with rapid gill movement.
Im struggling to diagnose and now panicking as I may have to move them soon.  The guy who's taking them, will be putting them in a hospital tank to start with. 
I will be carrying out water tests tonight and will post up.  I've carried out 3 water changes in the last week and taken up significant amounts of gravel cleaning. I have a MASSIVE snail problem which has escalated. I will not kill the snails and therefore struggle to know what to do with them.  They are producing large amounts of waste which means i have to keep cleaning the clogged up fluval filter. This has been an ongoing problem for me.

I have Melafix and Pimafix, which Im aware has been given opposing reviews before. I havent used any meds since ive moved house, in the last 4 months.

My problem is do i go in for meds right now, since they may be leaving in under a weeks time??

Thanks all

Offline ColinB

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Re: corydoras pale, fin loss, loss of balance
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2013, 10:47:30 AM »
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No meds until you've tested the water. A lot of your beneficial bacteria live in the gravel, so don't over clean it.

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Offline Sue

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Re: corydoras pale, fin loss, loss of balance
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2013, 09:17:52 AM »
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If you got the cories 8 years ago (and you say you "took them on" implying that someone else owned them before you) they could well be dying of old age.

As for the sails, the main cause of a snail population explosion is overfeeding the fish. Maybe cut down on the amount you feed. Have you tried the lettuce leaf method? I have to admit it doesn't work for me. Weight a lettuce leaf down in the tank last thing at night, then first thing next morning lift it out covered in snails. It probably doesn't work for me as by the time I've got my husband off to work the snails have all gone back into the substrate. There is a variant of this method. Put the lettuce leaf in a jar with a screw to lid and punch holes in the lid from the outside. The holes should just be snail sized. The idea is that the snails will be able to get in to the jar when they smell the lettuce (or whatever it is they do to find food) but the jagged edges from the punched holes on the inside of the lid will stop them getting out again.

Offline chester1o66

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Re: corydoras pale, fin loss, loss of balance
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2013, 07:30:08 PM »
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Hi Sue, thanks for the advice.

Firstly, ive tested the water - ammonia 0, ph 6.5-7 nitrites (shows the lowest on the colour chart)
so all looking good.
I've not put any meds in yet...now what to do? ive now spotted another cory thats pale and the rear fin is corroded, he appears to be losing his balance also...

The snails, yes ive tried the lettuce leaf method and didnt really work for me either.  The jar sounds interesting though, thanks.  There are literally HUNDREDS. The tanks crawling with them.  I bought 2 assassin snails some years back and they are still in there, but the population of the 'other' snails has increased. Theyve eaten most of the plants now too. The tank is full of white shells where the snails have died at some point...not good. I try not to clean all of the gravel - i do one side when i clean out, and the other the next time i clean out.  The problem is, i wont kill the snails and once i can get them out, i never know where to put them!!

Offline chester1o66

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Re: corydoras pale, fin loss, loss of balance
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2013, 07:36:27 PM »
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I did take them on yes, it was from my workplace which was a residential home that closed down.  No one would take the fish tanks so I agreed to.  I have no idea how long the corys were there for but there were only 4! Also in the tanks were 2 pearl gouramis and 2 angel fish, an upside down fish and a plec also - the corys bred which is how i ended up with 16 and the pearl gouramis passed away a few years back, the angel fish a year ago and the plec and clown loaches i rehomed to my sister.

I assumed that some of the corys would about 8yrs old and would die naturally, as some of them have..however I do know that the one that died a few days back was 'youth', as it was significanctly smaller (and it wasnt small because it was male).


TigzFish

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Re: corydoras pale, fin loss, loss of balance
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2013, 09:21:45 PM »
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i wont kill the snails and once i can get them out, i never know where to put them!!

May I ask why you won't kill them? If you do not wage war you'll never get them under control.  From what I have read, an explosion of snails indicates an abundance of food in the tank.  If snails have moved on from algae to plants then it sounds more like the food stock is running out and they are taking steps to keep going.

Under such circumstances I would be removing the source of food entirely ie: all the remaining plants.  If they can't get enough grub their numbers will decrease.  Decor, remove it and soak them in very hot water for a few minutes before a little scrub with a dedicated toothbrush (or similar).  The hot water soak is to kill any egg sacks.  Glass cleaning too, to scrape off those egg sacks (just done this on my own 180ltr last night.

Is it possible that the snail population is making the fish unhealthy?  I don't know if this is possible, but it does sound like a very overcrowded environment.

If anyone else has any suggestions I'm sure they will add.

I'm learning about snails too at the moment, as I had some invading my tank when I planted it. Keeping a watch on population which is sub-ten in number, but they are laying egg sacks.  I'd hate to have a population like yours, sounds awful.  :(

Offline chester1o66

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Re: corydoras pale, fin loss, loss of balance
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2013, 10:49:24 PM »
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Hi Tigzfish, well in short, i won't kill anything that lives. I wouldnt kill the fish, therefore I wouldnt kill the snails. I know most people find this difficult to understand, but to me its very natural NOT to kill anything. I think you are right, the snails have increased and have moved onto the plants now as I obviously dont provide enough food for it to go round them all! ;) Maybe thats a good idea, to remove the plants as they are now looking ragged.

I did wonder if this was a healthy environment for the fish? I am planning on them being rehomed very soon, but I would like to either medicate or do as much as possible to keep them feeling well before the move.

Thanks, oh and to be a bit clearer, I will remove egg sacks..at first I wouldnt, but I feel that I really need to elimate them hatching.


TigzFish

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Re: corydoras pale, fin loss, loss of balance
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2013, 10:03:47 PM »
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I understand perfectly.

It may take a while to get on top of it.  As there are so many snails, if they do start to die off because of lack of food, their bodies will sink to the substrate and start to rot quite quickly.  This in turn will produce more waste, making it very important to keep on top of substrate cleaning, water changes and water testing.

As ColinB has said, there is a lot of goodness in the substrate, so too much cleaning has a detrimental effect.  Looking to remove obvious waste, such as discarded food, dead plants and fish/snail poo.

Water testing is absolutely vital of course.

In your previous report you gave:-

pH: 6.5 - 7
Ammonia: 0
NitrIte: (lowest colour) <- should be 0ppm

What about NitrAte?  Although NitrAte isn't harmful in smaller quantities, it can be a problem if it gets too high.

Also, what type of water test kit do you use, liquid or strips? (Liquids are more accurate)

If you test the water again, be sure to do each of pH, Ammonia, NitrIte and NirAte and post it here as you go.  It will help us all get an idea of what's happening. Test your normal tap water too to get a gauge on any differences between tap and tank.  Keep a glass of tap water at room temperature for 24 hours, and test the pH again after that.  This allows the gases to dissipate and give you a better pH reading. This doesn't change for me, but others it does, just depends on your own water supply.

If your pH gets too low it can affect the Nitrogen cycle completely, though I have only had that problem when setting up my 64ltr tank.  At a pH of 6.5 it is getting quite low.  If your tap water is higher, then at least we know how to help the balance a bit.

Again, as per ColinB's suggestion, no meds until water is fully tested.
Don't mix meds, use only one type at a time when trying to treat different things.
Make sure you remove the Carbon filter/bag from your filter before dosing meds, and leave it out.
After the run of treatment, put a Carbon filter/bag back in for a few days to help remove old meds, then take it out and throw it away.
Then start your next medication.

Water changes should be done after doing any cleaning to allow more contamination to be removed, dose medication after a water change. Water testing should of course be done first.

Phew, that's a lot to take in and I think I've got the basics down.  Others will chime in if there's any finer points that need talking about.

Anyway, first thing is to get the water tested fully so we can see what's going on.

Offline chester1o66

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Re: corydoras pale, fin loss, loss of balance
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2013, 11:57:15 PM »
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Hi , thanks so much for your reply tigzfish - really do appreciate it. Ok, so I use liquid test kits - individuals test kits. I do have a nitrate one too, for some reason I didnt do this? I'll do this tomorrow (As its no midnight and Ive only just got in!) and post up.  Good idea about testing the actual tap water ph level - i'll give that a go also.

I did start using another brand of water neutraliser..de-chlorinator (cant remember the actual term for that!)...I used to use Aquasafe and my local shop no longer sold it so I began to use another - im wondering if its suitable? Although Im guessing that would show up on the test results?
Hmmm - more to think about.

Thanks again for the help- ill post results tomorrow :)

TigzFish

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Re: corydoras pale, fin loss, loss of balance
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2013, 08:31:36 AM »
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No problem.  Any of the dechloronator brands will do the job, I've used a few different ones over the last year and am currently on Nutrafin AquaPlus.

Offline chester1o66

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Re: corydoras pale, fin loss, loss of balance
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2013, 06:40:06 PM »
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Ok this is much more pressing now - i have a third sick cory, the one that looked ropey, ive come home from work and its tail fin as deteriorated, ragged, its sore, stumpy looking and the poor thing isn't very mobile, in fact it had its face down and body in a vertical position.....

:(
 what to do???

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